SeaWorld Orlando | Mako | B&M Hyper Coaster

[DelPiero]

Yeah, I don't agree with you at all Joey.

The standard B&M Hypers are all about large hills and floater, that's their MO. The Gigas, to me at least, are a different breed. Their layouts aren't the same as the Hypers, they seem to be more about speed than hill after hill. So why you would classify them as the same type of ride doesn't compute with me.

I feel exactly the same way about Intamin's offerings. The Hyper style (EGF, Skyrush to an extent, Goliath WH) are airtime machines, strong ejector. What do the Giga's offer? Speed and a good drop/first turn.

I wouldn't classify Millennium Force and EGF in the same bracket, why do the same with Behemoth and Fury?

If you prefer the Fury type ride to the Hyper type ride that's totally up to you, and most will agree, but dismissing a fun floaty Hyper just because it's a ride type you don't prefer seems like snobbery to me.

I'm also in the Kraken is most definitely not World Class camp.

 

[peep]

I agree with Joey about Kraken. It's awesome.

However I don't think comparing Mako makes any sense to other Hypers. What you need to do is compare it to what else Orlando has to offer. They currently have nothing like this (unless I'm having a moment and I'm forgetting something?) and seeing as most Orlando visitors don't go to loads of other parks, this will really stand out and make quite the impression on guests.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Pink Cadillac]

Tbf I remember it taking the inversions pretty quickly, the last two being surprising. Kraken does have fundamental problems, but the points I mentioned and the use of [strike]terrain[/strike] tunnels post mcbr are worthy of merit.

Mako is clearly the perfect choice for the park. I'm only slightly disappointed as a hard to please "enthusiast" that the Hyper coaster design hadn't moved forwards.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Yeah, I don't agree with you at all Joey.

The standard B&M Hypers are all about large hills and floater, that's their MO. The Gigas, to me at least, are a different breed. Their layouts aren't the same as the Hypers, they seem to be more about speed than hill after hill. So why you would classify them as the same type of ride doesn't compute with me.

I feel exactly the same way about Intamin's offerings. The Hyper style (EGF, Skyrush to an extent, Goliath WH) are airtime machines, strong ejector. What do the Giga's offer? Speed and a good drop/first turn.

I wouldn't classify Millennium Force and EGF in the same bracket, why do the same with Behemoth and Fury?

If you prefer the Fury type ride to the Hyper type ride that's totally up to you, and most will agree, but dismissing a fun floaty Hyper just because it's a ride type you don't prefer seems like snobbery to me.

I'm also in the Kraken is most definitely not World Class camp.

Re: thinking of the hypers and gigas as different breeds, wow really?

That seems so alien to me... We don't class Nemesis and Alpengeist as different ride types based on height. And those are two VERY different experiences, way different than even... Silver Star vs Fury. And yeah, MF and EGF are the same thing to me, it's just one is average, the other is very good.

And, again, like I said in my last post... to me Leviathan was just another B&M hyper. Fury is SO different. So, so different. It blew me away after riding Leviathan a few weeks prior and thinking it was very good, better than Behemoth, but not MILES ahead like Fury is to all the others. Apollo was my prior favourite, because I believe it's landscaping and being at a good park helps it nose ahead of other contenders, like Goliath.

It's not even about preferring ejector or whatever else to floater - at least I'm pretty sure it's not. It's just that Fury is an incredible experience. It has floater, there's nothing wrong with floater, but where the other B&M airtime machines lack is they are repetitive, slow feeling, swooping things.

I mean, Peep's spot on when he says you've gotta look at this thing in situ in Florida and how important it is for where it is. He's right. But why not also have a world class and not just Florida class ride I don't get it?

It's been a long time since I've ridden Kraken and I've ridden a lot since, in fairness. But what I remember is a large B&M that's also very good. Very good in the same sense of being this varying thing that is exciting because of that. All the great coasters are so because are dynamic in some way - be that through forcefulness or relentlessness or pacing or whatever.

 

[Hyde]

In the strictest sense, there is no elemental difference between Hypers and Gigas. Both have drops, both have airtime hills, etc. Gigas however do tend to have more elements that prefer higher speeds, such as banked turns, as *surprise* the layout travels at a faster speed. Hypers however due tend to rely heavily on airtime hill design, which can oscillate between ejector and floater.

All that being said, as peep, Joey, myself, and others have alluded to: Mako is a great roller coaster in its own right. Compared to other Hypers in the world however, it will appear behind the eight ball.

 

[Ben]

Leviathan is a totally different ride to the other B&M Hypers - like everyone has said it's based on speed and turns rather than going up and down.

Same with Fury BUT Fury has the amazing hills right at the end - the highlight of the ride.

We have NO idea what the airtime on this will be like, so what's the point discussing it? Goliath is the best B&M hyper and that's not even got a 200ft drop. If this has airtime like Fury's hills then it'll be up there with the best. Intensity, which Fury does have in buckets, is NOT height related.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

In the strictest sense, there is no elemental difference between Hypers and Gigas. Both have drops, both have airtime hills, etc. Gigas however do tend to have more elements that prefer higher speeds, such as banked turns, as *surprise* the layout travels at a faster speed. Hypers however due tend to rely heavily on airtime hill design, which can oscillate between ejector and floater.

Genuinely never even occurred to me... I mean, comparatively of say, element height and speed between gigas and hypers, are they really going at "higher speed"? Does that make sense? Like... if an element is larger, it'll need more speed. But it'll only be perceived as faster if it's, like, are you with me Hyde?

I love Mako's colour scheme, just to remain semi on topic.

 

[Ben]

^Could we have that in English?

Cause that reads that you're saying the speed sensation on all coasters is the same because the elements are sized proportionally.

So if you're telling me the speed on Millennium Force and EGF feels the same because of element sizes, you're crazy.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Re: SeaWorld Orlando | Mako | B&M Hyper Coaster

lmao.

MF feels slower than EGF to me... Though its been a while since I've ridden either. But as a rule, yeah... perception of speed is usually greater on rides which are lower to the ground or make tighter transitions. It's always blown my mind that people don't agree with me on this, but it does seem like I'm alone...

There are exceptions - Alpengeist feels damn fast and... well it is, compared to other inverts. But lil Nemesis feels faster than all the others except Alpie.

This is one reason I love Big One. Weather conditions create a sense of speed unique on Big One. Its so damn windy, and that flustering wind makes you feel like you're moving so fast, at points.

So, yeah. Speed perception is environmental, IMO. I'm pretty sure there's some science in that though, else being on a passenger aircraft would be more exciting than it is.

Obviously speed sensation isn't equal on all coasters because not only are elements NOT sized proportionately, there are other factors involved. Acceleration matters a lot, smoothness matters a lot, passing scenery matters a lot and most of all, forces matter. Especially lateral. That feeling like you're dodging about.

 

[Lofty]

I agree that speed is perception based to some extent, it's easy to actually use this idea to compare two coasters together, for example, Nemesis feels somewhat faster than Montu (even though Montu is 10mph faster) to me due to the terrain hugging layout and close interaction with the theming elements (even though Montu has some, it doesn't have the same feel to me), but I don't think it's possible to use it as a 'rule of thumb with some exceptions'.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Well, I'm glad I'm not completely crazy.

 

[BigBad]

So I click "Post Reply" and go to the login screen, and it's Leviathan in the photo up top.

Anyway...

It's not just an illusion why slower rides seem faster. Sure, their mph (km/hr, whatever) is not as quick, but consider looking out the window of an airplane. You have nothing against which you can judge your speed. Nothing is whizzing by. Nothing has much angular velocity for your eyes to track.

That humans don't perceive linear velocity is an important part of relativity. I believe that we judge speed by angular velocity: when we look at a moving object, our eyes either sweep the angle quickly or slowly.

I haven't been on either B&M giga (yet). Someone (probable a CFer) asked why gigas don't have the sprawling out-and-back layouts that hypers have, and the answer was that Steel Dragon does and it ended up being so expensive that Morgan went out of business (granted, part of that was because the structure has to resist earthquakes). Nothing about the physics says it can't happen or is even hard to do. I can (and have) do it in NoLimits, and you can find plenty of YouTube videos of sprawling gigas. However, B&M keeps Leviathan and especially Fury close to the ground, I'd imagine, so that the track isn't 9,000 feet long and $40 million.

For that reason, I'd imagine that their gigas are indeed different from their hypers. I don't totally get why this is said about Leviathan. It has a low hill, but aside from the turn on the way down, that's the same element as Shambhala and that Mako will have, and then it goes into a high parabolic hill that looks like it could have been on Diamondback or Nitro. The first drop leads into a high overbanked turn, but most B&M hypers have some kind of turn on the first air hill. Nitro banks pretty hard at the top of its first hill. Silver Star goes into a turn, even if it does turn into a standard hill. Does Leviathan really ride so different from the B&M hypers?

I get Fury, though. It has no real hills until after the helix. There's no reason why those elements couldn't appear on a hyper (and they appear to be on Mako), but they help keep Fury low to the ground and shorter than it would be if it went over big floater hills. I can see calling this a distinct experience from riding a hyper, at least until B&M starts putting those elements on hypers.

If Intamin started making prefab coasters that had RMC-style elements (or GG or GCI, but I like the prefab idea), I would not think of RMC as a style.

 

[Lofty]

Re: SeaWorld Orlando | Mako | B&M Hyper Coaster

^ Yeah because all those mentioned contain inversions, outerbanked hills, off axis airtime hills and generally unique layouts…


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk.

 

[XLR8R]

You must realize that both Fury and Leviathan are at parks that already have a sprawling B&M hyper coaster, so it wouldn't make much sense to build a giga that does the same thing.

 

[Ben]

^Whilst true, it is also cost related - hence why I305 and MF have low to the ground layouts too.

As mentioned the only 'Hill focused' Giga really is Steel Dragon and that cost a bomb.

 

[Hyde]

Just to reiterate on perception of speed, Joey and BigBad are hitting on it accurately - humans are a really bad at perceiving motion, as we need a frame of reference, such as an object passing by. Without going too deep into the weeds on Theory of Relativity or a neurologic study of how the brain processes visual cues: a study (which of course I can't find a link to at present) was conducted a few years back, where drivers were placed in a simulator, and asked to estimate the speed at which they were "travelling." The visual before them was a simple country road, with trees and other objects placed alongside the road. The study found that humans are really good at determining how fast they are traveling up to 60 mph. After that, guesses were less accurate, with many underestimating their travel speed.

Researchers also added in other factors, such as fog and night time driving, and found that drivers were not able to accurately guess travel speed beyond 30 mph.

All of which is to say, the closer you are to objects, the better sense of speed you have. The less view you have of objects, the less you are able to tell how fast you're traveling (beyond other cues, such as wind, g-force, noise, etc.). And the faster you go, especially beyond 60 MPH, the less likely you will be able to perceive differences in speed.

This can make sense when applied to roller coasters - low-to-the-ground elements and inversions for instance can feel faster, as riders have a closer interaction with objects/surroundings that allows their brain to interpret relative speed. And I also think many would agree they can better tell the difference in speed between 20 MPH and 40 MPH than 70 MPH and 90 MPH. So in turn, while you may be travelling 90+ MPH on one roller coaster, you may also have a better perception of speed on a slower roller coaster which travels closer to the ground and its surroundings (Ala Beast's tunneled double helix). Again, this is in terms of speed as perceived visually - when you add in other factors, such as acceleration on KK or TTD, your body perceives this beyond visual cues as increased positive g-force, wind, noise, etc.

Bringing this back around to Mako, packing in airtime hills and other elements will provide for a good ride experience, even though the ride will be traveling slower than a giga.

 

[GuyWithAStick]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mbyQFaEyy4[/youtube]

Holy hell. This is absolutely gorgeous.

 

[Lofty]

Re: SeaWorld Orlando | Mako | B&M Hyper Coaster

That is one nice drop


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk.

 

[Ben]

That drop is so sexy, didn't realise it was going to be so steep!

I'm so excited about this - B&M have really stepped up their game lately, with Fury 325 and Thunderbird being some of the best coasters they've ever made - and with Shambhala being their last ordinary Hyper, this has so much potential.

 

[Jamesss]

I think this thing looks aesthetically beautiful. The first drop looks phenomenal and steeper than I imagined.