Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
^^Not when the thread was like 25 pages long when I first saw it... I have better things to do...
Alton Towers Latest Rumours/confirmations
- Thread starter Jools
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Plans have been deferred (for Erol :lol: )as they wish to do a site visit.
They're worried that the plans are encroaching onto the Iron Age Hill Fort that Alton is allegedly built on.
There's never been any sound evidence that there was a hill fort, or even that the king named ever existed - it's a bit like Chorly council refusing their local park planning permission because it may disturb the site of the REAL Camelot
Well, maybe they have unearthed some real archeology, but as far as I'm aware (and some historian peeps I know), nobody has a clue if or where the fort ever was.
I go for the field close by full of earth workings with a hill fort shape on the top personally, but hey, what do I know?
Anyway, there has to be a visit to the "hill fort" to make sure the new ride won't ruin it :roll:
I think somebody is making things up personally...
As for the Mega Lite - I will bet £1000 that it isn't one. Seriously Ben, that is how sure I am it's not one. There's no evidence for one in the slightest, but lots of evidence for other things (not totally excluding Intamin, but certainly not the ML). Mega-Lites are pretty much an off-the-shelf product, Intamin would have to do a lot of work to produce one to fit these plans.
The biggest question is this - why, when tri-rail and fewer supports would be nothing but beneficial to this project (less trees cut, better looking, easier to theme around, matches Rita, overall cheaper) would Alton demand Intamin use bi-rail? They wouldn't. Intamin would come forward with a solution using their standard designs, which would mean Tri-Rail for the high forces the Mega-Lite produces.
That's the biggest thing against it. The Premier thing just all adds up - the one thing we're missing is what happens inside that themed station before it reverses. For all we know, the track may be on a rotator, so the whole car is put through a tumble dry cycle before being spat out backwards.
The 'World's First' bit is in there, and it's not on ANY plans - so it doesn't discredit the idea of Premier at all - in fact, after Maximum RPM, it seems to point to that kind of slightly out there technology.
They're worried that the plans are encroaching onto the Iron Age Hill Fort that Alton is allegedly built on.
There's never been any sound evidence that there was a hill fort, or even that the king named ever existed - it's a bit like Chorly council refusing their local park planning permission because it may disturb the site of the REAL Camelot
Well, maybe they have unearthed some real archeology, but as far as I'm aware (and some historian peeps I know), nobody has a clue if or where the fort ever was.
I go for the field close by full of earth workings with a hill fort shape on the top personally, but hey, what do I know?
Anyway, there has to be a visit to the "hill fort" to make sure the new ride won't ruin it :roll:
I think somebody is making things up personally...
As for the Mega Lite - I will bet £1000 that it isn't one. Seriously Ben, that is how sure I am it's not one. There's no evidence for one in the slightest, but lots of evidence for other things (not totally excluding Intamin, but certainly not the ML). Mega-Lites are pretty much an off-the-shelf product, Intamin would have to do a lot of work to produce one to fit these plans.
The biggest question is this - why, when tri-rail and fewer supports would be nothing but beneficial to this project (less trees cut, better looking, easier to theme around, matches Rita, overall cheaper) would Alton demand Intamin use bi-rail? They wouldn't. Intamin would come forward with a solution using their standard designs, which would mean Tri-Rail for the high forces the Mega-Lite produces.
That's the biggest thing against it. The Premier thing just all adds up - the one thing we're missing is what happens inside that themed station before it reverses. For all we know, the track may be on a rotator, so the whole car is put through a tumble dry cycle before being spat out backwards.
The 'World's First' bit is in there, and it's not on ANY plans - so it doesn't discredit the idea of Premier at all - in fact, after Maximum RPM, it seems to point to that kind of slightly out there technology.
Double Post - For interest:
http://www.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/downl ... _Map_4.pdf
The Iron Age ramparts are on the left, Rita the right. I think that the walls will have gone around the entire of what we think of as the Towers grounds (certainly Cred street to the end of Ugland). You can see the distance involved between the known ramparts and where the new ride is.
Essentially, the problem lies with somebody saying "the walls will have gone as far round as the new ride area, so it needs to be checked and listed if it does". Essentially, somebody is trying to find a new piece of history, and will stop the development with it.
Chances are, they won't, and if they do find further earthworks, then it's likely to be marked, documented, surveyed and then built on. It does slow the process down though...
http://www.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/downl ... _Map_4.pdf
The Iron Age ramparts are on the left, Rita the right. I think that the walls will have gone around the entire of what we think of as the Towers grounds (certainly Cred street to the end of Ugland). You can see the distance involved between the known ramparts and where the new ride is.
Essentially, the problem lies with somebody saying "the walls will have gone as far round as the new ride area, so it needs to be checked and listed if it does". Essentially, somebody is trying to find a new piece of history, and will stop the development with it.
Chances are, they won't, and if they do find further earthworks, then it's likely to be marked, documented, surveyed and then built on. It does slow the process down though...
I don't know who approves it actually? I think it's still the council's decision, it's just that they hear out the publics concerns and address them. In this case, there's concern a historic structure may be lost. Once it's checked, it will go back for approval in another meeting - the state of the historic site will be taken into consideration then I think.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ist there something in folk law saying that Alton is a part of the seat of camelot. Or something to that nature as there are to damn many myths and stuff about Camelot.
Yes, like every other site in the UK, it is linked to Arthurian legend. They can't all be, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Basically...
When the Norman's invaded, they met a LOT of resistance from the locals (oddly enough). To counter this, most of the Norman Lords looked at ways to integrate better with the English. Arthur was an ancient legend even then, so the Norman Lords all tried to find some claim. Geoffery of Monmouth did the most to help this cause about 30 years after the Norman invasion, though it's supposed to be a history of the British, it focuses largely on Arthur.
What they generally did was claim that one of their ancestors was Arthur, or one of his princes and they had proof back in Normandy that this particular piece of land they had in England was left to them through Arthur's dynasty. Hence why so many areas of England have this claim. They took common folklore, and twisted it to make it appropriate to them.
The locals loved it, as they could then claim that they lived on the site of Camelot.
This really caught on, to the point that we end up with the fantastical Le Morte d'Arthur in the 15th Century which is essentially the ultimate piece of Norman propaganda - a couple of hundred years too late. Essentially, it's a combination of most of the Arthur tales put about by the Normans, and it's what has been used as the source of "fact" for Arthur for a LONG time. If you see Arthurian fiction, it's most likely got it's roots there.
Erm, this history lesson has been brought to you by me!
Basically...
When the Norman's invaded, they met a LOT of resistance from the locals (oddly enough). To counter this, most of the Norman Lords looked at ways to integrate better with the English. Arthur was an ancient legend even then, so the Norman Lords all tried to find some claim. Geoffery of Monmouth did the most to help this cause about 30 years after the Norman invasion, though it's supposed to be a history of the British, it focuses largely on Arthur.
What they generally did was claim that one of their ancestors was Arthur, or one of his princes and they had proof back in Normandy that this particular piece of land they had in England was left to them through Arthur's dynasty. Hence why so many areas of England have this claim. They took common folklore, and twisted it to make it appropriate to them.
The locals loved it, as they could then claim that they lived on the site of Camelot.
This really caught on, to the point that we end up with the fantastical Le Morte d'Arthur in the 15th Century which is essentially the ultimate piece of Norman propaganda - a couple of hundred years too late. Essentially, it's a combination of most of the Arthur tales put about by the Normans, and it's what has been used as the source of "fact" for Arthur for a LONG time. If you see Arthurian fiction, it's most likely got it's roots there.
Erm, this history lesson has been brought to you by me!
One day, the UK will fall apart due to everyone complaining at everything being done, resulting in nothing being done. The entire country is covered with traces of human action. You can't move your foot without stepping on historic grounds. You can't stand upright without anyone writing a letter of complaint to the local papers stating that you blocked the view.
The Iron Age is OVER, folks of Alton. GONE! And there are TONS of remains everywhere else, you'll do fine without having ruins in your area too. And even if they discovered some really ground-breaking Iron Age stuff over there, the locals would fight to death to prevent a museum/visitor centre from being built. It would block the view over the same <img>ing landscape you find all over England.
I'm sorry to say this, but you've got the <img>est bureaucracy system there is, and there are NIMBYs everywhere. Good luck for the future.
The Iron Age is OVER, folks of Alton. GONE! And there are TONS of remains everywhere else, you'll do fine without having ruins in your area too. And even if they discovered some really ground-breaking Iron Age stuff over there, the locals would fight to death to prevent a museum/visitor centre from being built. It would block the view over the same <img>ing landscape you find all over England.
I'm sorry to say this, but you've got the <img>est bureaucracy system there is, and there are NIMBYs everywhere. Good luck for the future.
nealbie
CF Legend
furie said:Yes, like every other site in the UK, it is linked to Arthurian legend. They can't all be, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Basically...
When the Norman's invaded, they met a LOT of resistance from the locals (oddly enough). To counter this, most of the Norman Lords looked at ways to integrate better with the English. Arthur was an ancient legend even then, so the Norman Lords all tried to find some claim. Geoffery of Monmouth did the most to help this cause about 30 years after the Norman invasion, though it's supposed to be a history of the British, it focuses largely on Arthur.
What they generally did was claim that one of their ancestors was Arthur, or one of his princes and they had proof back in Normandy that this particular piece of land they had in England was left to them through Arthur's dynasty. Hence why so many areas of England have this claim. They took common folklore, and twisted it to make it appropriate to them.
The locals loved it, as they could then claim that they lived on the site of Camelot.
This really caught on, to the point that we end up with the fantastical Le Morte d'Arthur in the 15th Century which is essentially the ultimate piece of Norman propaganda - a couple of hundred years too late. Essentially, it's a combination of most of the Arthur tales put about by the Normans, and it's what has been used as the source of "fact" for Arthur for a LONG time. If you see Arthurian fiction, it's most likely got it's roots there.
Erm, this history lesson has been brought to you by me!
FANTASTIC! An hour and a half of Cromwell at college, and now I am home expecting to look at all things coaster and I get another history lesson! :roll:
Pokemaniac said:
Too true, too true, I'm afraid. What the idiots in the village don't realise is, if AT disapeared, all the income the village generates would be wiped out, because the village depends on the park and it's visitors. People on their way to and from the park will go through the village, and buy things there, or stay at a B&B. Take the park away, and there is almost no reason to go there, and people will not go, and if people don't go there, nobody will spend any money, and no money will come to the village.
And the way the Ropers complain, it's like Alton Towers just sprung up overnight, ran into the village making lots of noise, assaulted everyone in its way and burnt half of the village down, when in actual fact, the park has been growing since before the Corkscrew was orignaly installed. They didn't seem to complain then, and it's not like they havn't been warned, they have had 30 years to move away. Things like the firework display have beeen cancelled due to them, but I don't understand why. The display is done a few times a year, at night, and yes, it will make noise, but all fireworks do. Granted, they will be bigger and more of them, but the distance between will take some noise, and they get a free display. They act as if AT is being unfair and is really evil and sinister, when it is no different from any other park, and has actually done wonders for it's local economy. They remind me of people who move next to an airport, then complain about the noise. What do they expect? If they don't like it, they have had plenty of time to move out.
They are just getting childish, and are so desperate to stop anything happening, that they make up excusses based on loose fact in a desperate attempt to block the parks development. The new ride is a replacement, and is newer than Corkscrew, so it will not add any more traffic or noise. In fact it appears to be quieter than Corkscrew, and it is not much closer to the village, so noise won't get worse.
The ride will be built, no matter how much resistance it gets from the Ropers.
Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
Do people also not realise that the Ropers had been complaining for a much longer time than when the first court victory for them?
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
Funky Monk
Roller Poster
Just a stab in the dark here, but what about something like the Jet Sea Rescue Intamin in Australia (obviously without the sea theming and cars), just scaled up.T the cars would be interesting flying through the woods, and if I'm not mistaken the track's the same.
Don't kill me for this, it's just an idea! :--D
Don't kill me for this, it's just an idea! :--D
Coaster-Fiend
Mega Poster
Didn't the Ropers move away from the area?
If not, we should all band together raise some money and have a hitman take care of it.
If not, we should all band together raise some money and have a hitman take care of it.
Stone Cold
Mega Poster
Blaze said:
Agreed! Everyday I thank my lucky stars that the 1938 "Theme Park for every Village Act" was successful. How else would villages right across the country cope if it wasn't for the theme parks on their doorstep. They'd have to attract those ultra-rare tourists who would be interested in the nearby National Parks, Stately homes or quiet country getaways. Or heaven forbid, villagers would have to go into a local town to work, only to return to their quiet, unpsoilt village in the evening. That would be unthinkable.
blaze said:
Again, utter sense is spoken, Alton Towers didn't spring up overnight, but if this new coaster is blocked, it will almost certainly be sucked into an almighty black hole (probably those Nazis at CERN's work!) and never be seen again. Don't these villagers know that if Alton Towers aren't allowed to do everything they please, their livelihoods will instantaneously evaporate? They've been living in Alton for longer than Alton Towers has been a theme park, so they should know everything about it. They've been watching the visitors slowly clog their roads and heard the noise increase, and the jobs mainly go to people in Uttoxeter, Stoke, Derby and farther afield, so they should know what's afoot. What the hell is wrong with them?
And as for those fireworks, well if it scares their livestock, they should move them away, Greenland is quiet, why don't they go there?
Blaze said:
It's silly really, for them to think that a world first coaster will somehow attract more people than a 28 year old cloned ride. In fact, the new ride has a capacity of 50 fewer people an hour. There's 8,760 hours in a year, so that probably means a reduction of 438,000 visitors a year. Surely they must be able to work this out! At any rate, that 250ft woodie built in 2005 confirms that Alton Towers are boss, the villagers don't have a chance!
Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
^:lol:
Best post so far of 2009...
Best post so far of 2009...
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