Alton Towers Latest Rumours/confirmations

[Ben]

You like missing my point don't you?

Look at the track ITSELF. It's bi-rail. THAT's what makes me think it's a ML the MOST. The layout just fits into that. And it was actually the Intamin-style hills (the ones JUST like on Piraten etc.) that made me see it first.

The evidence AGAINST a Vekoma and FOR a ML is it's using track FOUND on MLs, NOT found on Vekomas.

Jeeeeesssuuss... I thought that was OBVIOUS. Sorry, you clearly didn't read my original post, you missed my point.

It could do anything (keep those hills though), and with bi-rail, yeah, I'd be suggesting ML.

You can go "Everest, Everest, Everest" all you want. It uses the wrong track.

And you keep going "WE HAVEN'T SEEN A ML WITH SWITCHBACKS! OMG!!11!!1!". Then say "Vekoma use them". That's the POINT. Vekoma USE them. Intamin don't. WORLD FIRST. We still need to find one, or what that can at least be applied to.

I think ruling out a type with which it shares:

1. The TRACK type. Quite important.

2. Layout.

Is quite frankly, idiotic.

I don't think ruling out types with which it doesn't share:

1. Track type.

2. Layout.

Could be counted in the same way.

It's like going "OH LOOK, this coaster goes loop, dive loop, zero-g, cobra roll... and it has box track. It's NOT a B&M". Yeah, that's clever.

 

[Ben]

Look at the track ITSELF. It's bi-rail. THAT's what makes me think it's a ML the MOST.

Other coasters with bi-rail in the layout include Kanonen, Speed, and Pandemonium.

Actually, wait a second...did I miss something here? Where exactly does it say it's bi-rail in the first place...?

I'm looking through the documents and I can't find anything...

A. Come up with better examples. An Intamin and two types we can instantly disregard? Well done.
B. I don't think you've read this topic. There are new plans with drawings that SHOW bi-rail.

Uh, what?

Intamin-style hills?

I take it you're going off of this picture:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3682 ... amege2.jpg

In which case, there's plenty of hills that look like that, and the Intamin hills in the case of the MLs are a bit sharper, and have a smaller apex with a wider entrance and exit:

http://www.rcdb.com/ig3799.htm?picture=16

http://www.rcdb.com/ig3570.htm?picture=18

No. I'm not going off that picture. I'm going off the latest plans. Mainly because I read the topic.

http://www.rcdb.com/ig2389.htm?picture=48

Wait a second - that's not POSSIBLY Vekoma bi-rail track, is it...?

And can you remind me what ride that happens to be on?

How about this?

http://www.rcdb.com/ig2389.htm?picture=44

Or this?

http://www.rcdb.com/ig2389.htm?picture=50

Well, I guess that argument is gone.

No. That's not an argument gone actually. Actually that gives me an idea... IF it was to be a Vekoma, what could we compare it to quite nicely and easily... mmm... the one... Tibidabo just built? If they're all of a sudden using bi-rail, haven't we seen it in the last three years? Wasn't there a big deal made about Everest's track design? Why hasn't it been followed through? If Vekoma had used bi-rail on their latest, similar installment (with a drop, helixes, s-bends, airtime hill, more similar than Everest is...), I'd concur with you. We also don't see it on their newer Mine Trains, interestingly. I'm just not convinced by that that Vekoma are all of a sudden building with bi-rail.

Ahh, but could a world's first not be a train type? Last time I checked, Vekoma have been pushing for these 4-across trains for quite a while...

Or could it not be a theming type? Perhaps they'll use some unique effects? Perhaps the world's first Vekoma switchback with an on-board audio system?

It could be. I'm not giving a definitive answer. There isn't one at the moment. I just frankly think to throw out the argument for a ML (especially before you actually SEE the evidence), is stupid.

I find the whole "Well, it's a world's first, and a Mega-Lite with switchbacks would be a world's first, so let's go with that" to be a very, very, very weak argument.

That's not why I'm going with ML. Track type, layout type, even station length, all point towards ML. The station is a tiny bit smaller than Rita's. Surely an Everest train wouldn't FIT in there?

You know what else would be a world's first? Maybe Gravity Group is going to build a steel coaster! That's certainly a world's first!

Yeah. Well done.

1. Proven to be irrelevent when compared to Everest.

Proven nothing. I put it to you Everest is the exception, not the rule. To play ONE installment against a company that use it on practically ALL their modern, similar coasters... not too bright.

2. A drop into a turn and S-bends? Give me a break. Both check out with Everest, by the way.[/quote

I do wish you'd look at all the topic and evidence before posting. You would save me some time.

Oh, and while we're at the layout, did I also mention that the post-switchback helix also checks out with Everest?

Yeah. Meaning we've seen it. Where's the Worlds First in that?

Hell, let's put Everest aside - did I mention that a drop into a turn and an S-bend check out with almost every manufacturer of somewhat large coasters in existence?

Look at the plans, that's all I can say. Actually look at them. Don't post until you have. And listen to what I'm saying. Yes, all manufactures might build them. It's the style. And THAT's what comes across in the new plans. Everest and Piraten's drops are VERY different. They do the 'same thing', but the style... VERY different. Look at the plans. And you will see which one this holds more similarities with.

I really don't understand how anyone could support a Mega-Lite in a situation like this. It's just utterly stupid, and there's really no solid evidence to support it, except:

Seriously. Look at all the plans.

1. A track type based on assumptions drawn from a basic outline plan - a track type which happens to be shared by at least twenty other coaster types from six manufacturers.

Plans. Look. At. Topic. Read.

2. A layout (specifically, two elements) - a drop into a turn and a pair of S-bends - that have been repeated on countless - literally, countless - other coasters around the world.

See above.

Your argument is just so, so, so very weak.

No. You know makes mine stronger? I've had the decency to read what I should have before getting into a discussion on this. You've seen, what? The one with the pretty pink line? Please. Look at all the proper plans. Then get back to me. You'll find them when you read this topic. Which, btw, maybe you should have done before responding?

 

[Mike T]

Sorry for the off topic-ness, but your posts make me lolz major...

Benny Boy, you're up. :wink:

 

[The Grape Wizard]

You may as well make a bloody argument topic, ben ur up :lol:

 

[Lucy]

Just to steer off topic briefly and going back to Spicy's question :

What type of coaster is X:NWO?

I believe it's a Vekoma Enigma:

http://www.rcdb.com/id846.htm


Anyway, back on topic, I reckon it will be something from Intamin but not sure where the "world's first" bit fits into the picture. I guess we'll just have to wait and see but I am excited about it

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Lol...

For the record, NWO also uses bi-rail, and that's a Vekoma...

This'll be good to watch some more though...

 

[furie]

UC - you need to see these plans to help you catch up

http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 2030-FUL(E)%20(14450).JPG
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 2030-FUL(F)%20(14451).JPG
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 2030-FUL(G)%20(14452).JPG
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 2030-FUL(H)%20(14453).JPG
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 2030-FUL(I)%20(14454).JPG
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 2030-FUL(J)%20(14455).JPG

All the documents here:
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov ... 3OQPG04H00

The detailed plan drawings, showing details of the track, where uploaded yesterday I think?

I am assuming that the track detail is correct due to the correctness of the Rita track. If it is, then almost certainly Intamin track, with the angled cross members between the straight ones - though I think maybe MS and Gerstlauer also may use something similar.

I've not seen Vekoma use anything like it (doesn't mean they haven't or won't, but it's unlikely they'd start copying Intamin track styles just for this coaster).

Of course, we have to rely on the accuracy of the plans, but I don't think they're an artistic representation.

 

[Divv]

For what its worth, I was told that Vekoma put together an offer of a mine train for this project but Alton Towers decided to go with another manufacturer.

Maybe we're just clutching at straws hoping it will be a ML but I'm fairly confident this won't be a Vekoma.

 

[Lofty]

This is really starting to scream out EE type of Vekoma for me now!

I seriously hope the rumours for the 'drop tower' type track section are true, really quiete unique and interesting imo!

 

[furie]

Someone on TTF has just pointed out that Premier use the same style track - and with Maximum RPM, they are also doing "funny" track sections... So another possibility...

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Premier would be nice, although my only experience with them is the Revenge of the Mummy rides, hence quite minimal in the coaster aspect...

Good users of the turntable tech though...

 

[furie]

Yep, I'm pretty certain on the Premier front now... How quickly we can change our minds (well, to be fair, I've never been on a Premier ride, or studied them, they're a complete unknown to me).

Just looking , and the backlot tour coasters (all just a couple of years old) all have three car trains - the same kind of length as Mega-lites.

Also, looking at the layouts of the Premier rides, and the fact they seem to excel in dark/themed rides - it really does point that way!

Also... the biggest Mega-Lite issue is the track. All the others use lots of tri-track, not complete bi... Let's rain on some parades

 

[Ben]

Yeah, a Premier coaster is very possible, and makes a lot of sense too. Especially if this thing is going to launch backwards, because forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Hollywood's launch backwards? I'm not watching a POV to check because I want to ride it unknowing in August .

I do kind of hope not though, Premiers have a nasty habit of feeling like someone has placed a concrete block on your leg the whole ride with those hideous restraints, and we could probably rule out being able to feel any airtime .

 

[Lofty]

Me and tony had a discussion on this last night over MSN, wI said too about premier could be high on the lsit, the one that shows Rita and The new coaster looks so much like Stunbt job's and Mrp's track, I think we can have quiete a good bet on them now!

 

[Jools]

But Thorpe Park don't have a Premier ride, it was said earlier on that they done sound tests on a ride at Thorpe :?

 

[furie]

But Thorpe Park don't have a Premier ride, it was said earlier on that they done sound tests on a ride at Thorpe :?

No, they included tests done on X:\NWO to show that the indoor part of the ride would not have any noise impact on the environment - in the same way X:\NWO doesn't.

It's not meant to accurately reflect what they're getting, just that the indoor bit isn't going to be loud. The outside bit will be masked by Rita's noise.

 

[Anonymous]

Also has anyone thought that the "worlds first" thing, could be simply a new train design. We have seen the tilt front before, so maybe it could be the way of riding that could be new?

 

[coasterdude_1]

I think Premier would be a BAD choice for a world's first given the ridiculous length of time it took to sort out the problems with the ferris wheel lift on Maximum RPM! and given the low capacity of Italian Job Stunt Coaster...

 

[Mike T]

Capacity is up to the customer in the end - the customer being Alton Towers. It's already been said that this coaster's capacity will be about 1,200 persons per hour. If you want to argue about Premier and its capacity issues, consider that Florida's mummy cycles 2,400 pph when running at full capacity of 11 ride vehicles.

And obviously after looking at the dynamics of the ride Alton is getting in 2010, its fair to say that it'll operate on a similar basis, containing both show and coaster elements. I wouldn't dismiss Premier immediately in regards to capacity though, that's a poor statement to make on your part.

This coaster isn't going to have a Ferris Wheel style lift either, where problems surfaces regarding the joint mechanism that mated two segments of track together as it spun into position. The ride WILL contain switch pieces found on rides like (surprise surprise) Mummy, where the track simply makes a lateral shift into position before being ready to go. Much more reliable and *proven*, if you will, than the 'thing' Hard Rock Park had installed at their park.

Of course this is all keeping in mind that this may not even be a Premier to begin with - although evidence proves stronger of this than something from Intamin.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

^What he said...

On the whole, Maximum RPM is about the only bad ride I've heard Premier have major problems with, the ROTM's are both excellent rides, but that's all I've done...

The capacity can't be worse that Rita's surely? :lol: