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southend_marc said:
I probably did not make it clear sorry. But at least it made you get my point :)

Air was called worlds 1st flying coaster even though it was not, yet its there as worlds first.

But you can see all Alton have to do is get a B&M woody and call it a worlds first, thats my point.
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Except the Vekoma "flyings" weren't classed as flying were they? Because a large portion of the coaster is also when you are your on back.

The calling it a worlds first just because it is a BnM is ridiculous.

The difference with the flyer situation is that (building from what UC said), was yes, it was the first BnM one but there was also next to no existing "flying" coasters in the world. Therefore the public are easily duped into thinking that Air is the first. A woodie on the other hand is quite common knowledge so therefore it is not a plausable suggestion that they expected the public to be duped into it.
 
Bah, this whole debate is stupid. Skytrak at Grenada Studios was clearly the first flying coaster and there is no denying it. It had you on your belly flying like Superman, the concept was there, so what else needs to be said?

As for the Vekomas, well SFWoA didn't open a ride called X-Lay did they? Thissign at the front of stealth clearly identifies it as a 'flying coaster'. This press release for Batwing mentions the idea of flying multiple times.
The term 'prone coaster' is one I have only seen in enthusiast circles, and I have never seen one of these rides referred to on the whole as a prone coaster officially.

Much like UC's method for defining a "roller coaster" (If the park and manufacturer say it is a coaster then it is a coaster) then if both the park and manufacturer are saying its a flyer, then clearly it is a flyer.

All these excuses like "Vekomas are't a flyer, some of it is on your back, Skytrak wasn't successful, Air was first because it was gentle blah blah blah" are clearly just an effort to make up some paper thin reasons exclude these rides so Alton Towers and B&M get some extra glory....because we couldn't have other lowly parks or manufacturers beating these guys to the punch could we?
 
On the subject of Alton's potential future coaster sites...

earlier in this thread someone claimed SW6's site was the last available plot in the park, but that's not true.

-If the Black Hole ever gets removed that would leave enough space for medium sized coaster.

-Also what about coaster corner? ... that was before I ever visited.. can anyone tell me what is on that site now or is it empty? I can't make sense of the cartoony AT maps, but I know it was behind X Sector.
 
Gazza said:
All these excuses like "Vekomas are't a flyer, some of it is on your back, Skytrak wasn't successful, Air was first because it was gentle blah blah blah" are clearly just an effort to make up some paper thin reasons exclude these rides so Alton Towers and B&M get some extra glory....because we couldn't have other lowly parks or manufacturers beating these guys to the punch could we?
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I never strictly said the vekoma wasn't a flyer. The granada thing was also a flyer, albeit single carriage affair I believe.

As UC said, the general public can be fooled into thinking something is a worlds first if there is only a couple of them dotted around the world. Especially in somewhere as small as Britain anyways. Because Air basically looked so different to the other flyers (with particular reference to the one in Granada as the British GP are far less likely to be aware of the Vekoma flyers) they can get away with the worlds first thing. Irrespective of whether it is or not. Which, as UC mentioned, can be used to effect again. Perhaps with a 4d.

Although, X is a little more well known then the Vekoma Flyers because its coverage gets hammered in those shows on the travel shop and so on. So it may not be quite as easy to pull off the worlds first claim. Its still possible, but a risky move as it essentially depends on how many know about the other 4D coasters.

Coaster-Fiend: In terms of the Black Hole site it may be unlikely to see another coaster because of the area. Unless it is an indoor coaster again. I am pretty sure that area is one of which that they have problems with because of its location right at the edge of the park.

In terms of the SW6 site, it was said by Barnes that the Corkscrew site was the only location in which they could fit their new concept coaster.

There is a reason Coaster Corner ceased to exist. It caused too much noise. Again, because of its locale in reference to the outside residents and so on.
 
Mark said:
There is a reason Coaster Corner ceased to exist. It caused too much noise. Again, because of its locale in reference to the outside residents and so on.
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I see.

By looking at google maps, if I am looking at the right area.. it would appear what was once coaster corner is now all woods. Is this plot still owned by the park? If it is I reckon it could still be used in the future for a new attraction some day. Perhaps some type of indoor ride.. Just not an outdoor coaster.. what do you think?
 
There were many rumours a while back about the prospect of coaster corner being used for a Spiderman (IOA) type attraction. It never materialised though.
 
It is a shame that the whole spidy type thing didn't happen, but it may have been shelved. What is that ride type called anyways?
 
You can see into Coaster Corner still. I took some earlier this year actually.

It's basically some gardening sheds, a bit of a dumping ground and an old car park now.

Though they did (and this is why I took photos) spend a few weeks cutting back the trees and bushes. Could be related to the Cred street work and they're opening up into it a little more to fit in Ugswinger.
 
Interesting... how big would you say the area is?

Also- can you post the photos?

Mark- Spider-Man ride, I'm not sure what those type of 3D dark rides are called...
 
Coaster-Fiend said:
Interesting... how big would you say the area is?

Also- can you post the photos?
Click to expand...

They're at home, so not immediately...

However...


Number 2 is the Cred street theatre, and 3 is Charlie. The big kind of rectangle area in the middle is where I think the Beast used to be, the area underneath it four man bob (or the mouse).
coastercorner.jpg

ugland.jpg

Ugland at the same scale to give you an idea of comparative size
 
From what I remember as I only went once when the 4 Man Bob was there. You had to turn left and walk a bit, it used to be where that hut in that small opening is and I am sure the Mouse was next to it. But I could be wrong, I am just going from memory.
 
Coaster corner- seems like there is a reasonable plot of land there...

UG Land- this pic shows that RITA pretty much entirely boxes in the SW6 site.
It will be interesting to see if SW6 is confined to that plot or if it does indeed somehow travel over/around/through RITA and also occupy the area where the Ug Swinger sits.

You do kinda get the impression they would have been better served ripping out Corky in 2004/05 and perhaps having one large coaster there instead of two crammed together. But if they did that we would not be getting a new worlds first in 2010.
 
Coaster-Fiend said:
UG Land- this pic shows that RITA pretty much entirely boxes in the SW6 site.
It will be interesting to see if SW6 is confined to that plot or if it does indeed somehow travel over/around/through RITA and also occupy the area where the Ug Swinger sits.
Click to expand...

That was why I was suggesting that they may have to temporarily remove parts of Rita to get the new coaster in...
 
Could be... also I don't know what the park boundaries are in that area.. perhaps they will bulldoze some trees to make the site a bit bigger..
 
They could also build over the Sky Ride and move the shops that are there. The new coaster will probably have to go over parts of Rita or under it.

Its going to be interesting to see how they fit it in.
 
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