Kings Island | Banshee | B&M Invert

[Hyde]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Normal planning time from concept to the first digging shovel is around three years, if not four.

That is why it would make sense to go forward with any Kinzel plans, as capital has already been invested in planning for these new additions. That is time/effort/money that you cannot get back, which would show a negative loss if ended prematurely.

Oh, and:

These are still Kinzels decisions playing out, so I expect many bad decisions.

You're welcome to not ride GateKeeper then if you so choose. :wink:

 

[Intricks]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Haaaaa....you are a funny man.

No, not in that manner, but rather kinzel deciding to pull a Six Flags and buy three of four of one ride type and installing them at a few of the parks that need a new, proper coaster (which has been done before with WindSeeker).

That is a bad decision if I am correct.

 

[Hyde]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Not everyone is going to bat a perfect score.

Have the WindSeekers been unreliable pieces of junk so far? Yes.

Were there a lot of other good decisions made under the Kinzel era? (Think every roller coaster and amusement park added since Magnum back in 1989) Yes

I'm not going to judge by one set of additions, but by the larger picture of Kinzel's tenure. It is pretty impressive.

 

[Intricks]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

So effectively ignoring near the rest of the parks and only giving to them when needed was a good decision?

He made Cedar Point what it is today, so why couldnt he have done that with the rest of the parks?

He did a botched job and his last few decisions after Maverick are where he seemingly decided to acknowledge all of the ignored parks.

He did a **** job towards the rest of the parks, so yes, he has made lots of bad decisions in the past, far moreso than good decisions.

 

[Snoo]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

So effectively ignoring near the rest of the parks and only giving to them when needed was a good decision?

He made Cedar Point what it is today, so why couldnt he have done that with the rest of the parks?

He did a botched job and his last few decisions after Maverick are where he seemingly decided to acknowledge all of the ignored parks.

He did a **** job towards the rest of the parks, so yes, he has made lots of bad decisions in the past, far moreso than good decisions.

Not every park is the flagship of the chain? Compared to most other major chains with this many parks, CF has done a great job improving/adding a major attraction or two to I believe every park (top of my head) over the last decade.

Some parks don't have the volume to warrant it while others do.

 

[tomahawk]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

So Intricks, you believe every park should get the equal number of rides then, or the same number of big additions? Since that's what Six Flags CLEARLY does as Frontier City has a Kingda Ka clone. Oh wait, NOBODY WOULD EVER DO THAT. To suggest every park is equal is an asinine comment. Most parks in the chain are regional parks, not destinations. You aren't going to give a park that only gets people that come from at most two hours away a big capital investment year in and year out.

Knott's was as close to a second flagship as possible, and once Paramount parks were purchased, it was clear it wasn't possible anymore. You, as a corporation, need to focus on the larger markets, and in that you find where the capital goes. You aren't going to send 90% of your future capital funds for the following year to parks that get a percentage of the heavy weights of the chain. Are you gonna send your money to Kansas City and Charlotte, or will you send it to places like Toronto, LA, DC, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and large multi million person cities?

Obviously you can't completely ignore smaller parks, but they don't need a Gatekeeper or a Maverick every few years. They get Dino's, a spinner, and a windseeker in 5 years and they will still see population increase.

Saying Kinzel was bad for the company is just **** stupid. They purchased Paramount parks, claiming strong parks in new territory AND it didn't cause them to go bankrupt like Six Flags did when they gobbled up all those parks in the 90's. Their stock at the moment is $42 a share. Six Flags is $72 (inflated from coming out of bankruptcy). Disney is $63.

So again, tell me how Kinzel ruined a company when he didn't sell parks off to keep bankruptcy away for another few months, while gaining several very large parks in bigger markets.

 

[njn63]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Their stock at the moment is $42 a share. Six Flags is $72 (inflated from coming out of bankruptcy). Disney is $63.

Stock price is meaningless because they don't factor in the number of issued shares.

Market cap:
Disney: 113.45B
Six Flags: 3.48B
Cedar Fair: 2.34B

edit: I don't disagree with your overall point. I just don't like people making the mistake of comparing stock prices like they are an indication of value of the company.

 

[BBH]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

With all of the Banshee naming ballyhoo, I can't help but wonder, why did they throw out Banshee in favor of Mantis in the first place? Who could possibly be offended by Banshee?

 

[Intricks]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

I said he made botched decisions, nowhere did I say he ruined the company. He was a man who saw business opportunities and took them. They worked for the greater of the company, although there was some speed bumps to his empire of Parks. Those weren't back decisions.

Sweet lord, lets keep it in check with what I said, ok?

Cedar Point flourished under Kinzels reign, and while the rest of the parks in his empire got some attractions, they didn't get nearly as much attention as Cedar Point did. I would go into more detail, but as I'm lazy and will most likely get this entire post picked apart for no reason just to be made to look a fool, I'll end it here and drop the subject. Want to argue more, send me a PM. I may respond to it or won't, it depends on my level or caring over the subject.

 

[Hyde]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

^ It'd be unfortunate to not be able to continue the discussion over PM due to a lacking "level of caring over the subject."

With all of the Banshee naming ballyhoo, I can't help but wonder, why did they throw out Banshee in favor of Mantis in the first place? Who could possibly be offended by Banshee?

It was religious stigma that persuaded Cedar Point to change from the name Banshee to Mantis back in 1996 - vocal groups apparently did not like the idea of building a roller coaster themed after a shrieking monster that kills as it screams. Was it a blown up controversy? Probably. Personally, I love the notion of using a Banshee theme on an un-quieted B&M track.

The Banshee logo was repurposed for Steel Force at Dorney Park in 1997.

 

[Youngster Joey]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

^It will likely be picked apart as people have differing opinions...

 

[Snoo]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

I said he made botched decisions, nowhere did I say he ruined the company. He was a man who saw business opportunities and took them. They worked for the greater of the company, although there was some speed bumps to his empire of Parks. Those weren't back decisions.

Sweet lord, lets keep it in check with what I said, ok?

Cedar Point flourished under Kinzels reign, and while the rest of the parks in his empire got some attractions, they didn't get nearly as much attention as Cedar Point did. I would go into more detail, but as I'm lazy and will most likely get this entire post picked apart for no reason just to be made to look a fool, I'll end it here and drop the subject. Want to argue more, send me a PM. I may respond to it or won't, it depends on my level or caring over the subject.

The next time, don't say opinion if you're just gonna be a lazy **** about it.

 

[Intricks]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Ugh...dont know why Im responding, but I guess some questions are best left to my ever growing imagination.

Knotts is a prime example of a missed opportunity and mild disregard. Being one of the earlier acquired parks, it has had more time to gain the same type of attention Cedar Point has had. It is in a prime spot to garner some better attendance, but a slew of rides that had started out as a competitor to go against Magic Mountain has suddenly stopped, and now it has recieved a more family friendly atmosphere to try to compete with the King of all things Family: Disney. Granted, the family atmosphere isnt unwelcomed, it was still an odd move to go from the easier competitor to the harder one when his answer to all things kid friendly was a mass of Planet Snoopy additions.

Second missed opportunity I will amass into one: Ohio. He had the VERY rare chance to turn Ohio into a figurative juggernaut in regards to the amusement industry. Kings Island was pulling in the crowds from Kentucky Kingdom, and Geauga Lake could have potentially been the largest threat to Kennywood and Waldameer. Instead of taking what could have been the best investment of his entire career, he opted to nix the idea, possibly due to the near falling under the acquiring of the Paramount Parks caused. We all know the sad story of Geauga Lake, but it was never really meant to thrive as a thrill park. Instead of turning the park back into what it once was, a family park, he nabbed what was of use and tossed the ride side, opting to keep the Waterpark (which has not seen much TLC either). The attendance figures were beginning to rise again, so why nix the park when it was beginning to generate revenue for the company? Kings island is a bt different since it was bought in the Maverick era, so its use in this argument is small, but still useful. The park has what it takes to be a king of the southern part of Ohio. It draws in the crowds and had a mild stellar line-up of attractions when it was bought. So why didnt the park flourish like Cedar Point has? Out of all the parks Kinzel gained, I honestly think one has recieved the most attention. It may not have gained the most in new attractions, but it was "prettied up" the best. The three parks, as a whole, would have turned Ohio into a state to be reckoned with in the amusement park tourism industry. Guess we will never know.

Dorney is another missed out mainly due to it not being given the proper attention and care to pull against Hershey and Great Adventure. How about Worlds of Fun and Californias Great America? The surrounding parks have been growing fairly well, with those two just kind of being there. Gold Striker is coming to CGA, but what about WoF? What is going to help it draw a crowd from SDC and SFStL?

Kinzel did wonders for Cedar Fair and gained an empire anyone would be proud of. He helped the company grow and did plenty of good for Cedar Point, creating it into the park it is today. Yet, the few other parks that should be as near ro marvelous as Cedar Point, arent due to his decisions. He has made bad choices that didnt ruin the company, it only affected the other parks with competition near them.

 

[bentcookie]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

I could cut the tension in here with a knife...lol :lol:

 

[Hyde]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

^^ You are right on Knotts and CGA - especially Knotts. Knotts is very much a niche market in the LA area, isolated from SFMM (an hour drive in light LA traffic) and not driven by the same demographic as Disneyland. The thrill ride strategy could have worked, but execution has definitely felt lacking compared to neighboring parks - Ghostrider (which was rather good when first opened), Silver Bullet (a lower caliber B&M Invert), Perilous Plunge (RIP), and Xcelerator. Knotts built thrill rides, but not to the same par as others.

So now Knotts feels like they are shifting strategies towards a family park with Sierra Sidewinder, Pony Express, WindSeeker, and the new Coast Rider section. Yet this puts you closer to the Disney market, which is a dangerous area to tread. I would love to see those hyper/giga rumors come to fruition for Knotts, moving the park back towards thrills, but only time will tell. I will say though - the renovations for Timber Mountain look really good!

It was unknown for a number of years if Cedar Fair would continue holding onto CGA, amidst the new 49ers stadium talks. Now that Cedar Fair seems to be sticking around, it would be hopeful to think that Gold Striker is the first of many good renovations for the park. Six Flags Marine World is anything but fierce competition in the San Francisco area, with plenty of market available to CGA.

 

[Wildmouse695]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Ugh...dont know why Im responding, but I guess some questions are best left to my ever growing imagination.

Knotts is a prime example of a missed opportunity and mild disregard. Being one of the earlier acquired parks, it has had more time to gain the same type of attention Cedar Point has had. It is in a prime spot to garner some better attendance, but a slew of rides that had started out as a competitor to go against Magic Mountain has suddenly stopped, and now it has recieved a more family friendly atmosphere to try to compete with the King of all things Family: Disney. Granted, the family atmosphere isnt unwelcomed, it was still an odd move to go from the easier competitor to the harder one when his answer to all things kid friendly was a mass of Planet Snoopy additions.

Second missed opportunity I will amass into one: Ohio. He had the VERY rare chance to turn Ohio into a figurative juggernaut in regards to the amusement industry. Kings Island was pulling in the crowds from Kentucky Kingdom, and Geauga Lake could have potentially been the largest threat to Kennywood and Waldameer. Instead of taking what could have been the best investment of his entire career, he opted to nix the idea, possibly due to the near falling under the acquiring of the Paramount Parks caused. We all know the sad story of Geauga Lake, but it was never really meant to thrive as a thrill park. Instead of turning the park back into what it once was, a family park, he nabbed what was of use and tossed the ride side, opting to keep the Waterpark (which has not seen much TLC either). The attendance figures were beginning to rise again, so why nix the park when it was beginning to generate revenue for the company? Kings island is a bt different since it was bought in the Maverick era, so its use in this argument is small, but still useful. The park has what it takes to be a king of the southern part of Ohio. It draws in the crowds and had a mild stellar line-up of attractions when it was bought. So why didnt the park flourish like Cedar Point has? Out of all the parks Kinzel gained, I honestly think one has recieved the most attention. It may not have gained the most in new attractions, but it was "prettied up" the best. The three parks, as a whole, would have turned Ohio into a state to be reckoned with in the amusement park tourism industry. Guess we will never know.

Dorney is another missed out mainly due to it not being given the proper attention and care to pull against Hershey and Great Adventure. How about Worlds of Fun and Californias Great America? The surrounding parks have been growing fairly well, with those two just kind of being there. Gold Striker is coming to CGA, but what about WoF? What is going to help it draw a crowd from SDC and SFStL?

Kinzel did wonders for Cedar Fair and gained an empire anyone would be proud of. He helped the company grow and did plenty of good for Cedar Point, creating it into the park it is today. Yet, the few other parks that should be as near ro marvelous as Cedar Point, arent due to his decisions. He has made bad choices that didnt ruin the company, it only affected the other parks with competition near them.

How much did you just back peddle? :--D

 

[Hyde]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Apparently Banshee might be a legitimate option for a name - Cedar Fair has recently trademarked the name. This would fall in line with the construction signs talking about screaming and phenomenon.

 

[Ian]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Here's the trademark link:

http://www.trademarkia.com/banshee-85913369.html

 

[tomahawk]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Well that give a hint for at least one of the attractions for next season, be it this one or someplace else, granted the teasers are a pretty good sign.

 

[kifan99]

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster - FOOTER PHOTOS ON 8

Footers!

Another Pic.

These where All taken by me! It definitely looks like their building something there at Kings Island. :--D
Also If anyone didn't know windseeker was back operating yesterday! It had the same cycle as last year except that it was up at 300 feet a lot longer! And it was a little faster. But they where only allowing 32 people on the ride when I rode it because of the ride operators to try and balance the ride out. I didn't see it get stuck so I guess it worked! :lol: