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Keeping Orcas in captivity - Is it wrong?

They now recon the fin is a male dominance thing and as they don't mate in captivity normally they don't need it. Basically they are being deprived of sex lol.
 
He does not though, he does not actually have sex with them. Plus the damage was done before Sea World. Once the fin is down it never returns to how it was.

They don't know 100% but it's a theory as to why it happens in captivity to all males.
 
I think I've already put forward pretty much everything I want to say in this topic. Blackfish was biased, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly alright as Gavin says. However, just food for thought for Joey.

Joey said:
Like other animal rights issues, I struggle to be persuaded either way. It's like vegetarianism. There is no good counter argument for "it's immoral to kill other creatures" but for some reason that isn't enough on it's own to make me stop.
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Start here Joey:
https://theconversation.com/ordering-th ... hands-4659

Also, not connected, but having seen this:
http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MjM5NDM ... scene=4#rd
(not a hoax for once)

I'm less inclined to be overly radical about Sea World, I think there are much "larger fish to fry" ;)
 
California legislature has proposed a bill to ban Orca captivity.

If passed, the bill would be the most comprehensive protection law for captive orcas in the United States in more than 40 years.
In a surprising move that is sure to send shock waves across the entire captive whale and dolphin industry, a California lawmaker will propose legislation to outlaw Shamu shows at SeaWorld San Diego.
State Assemblymember Richard Bloom, D–Santa Monica, will introduce Friday the Orca Welfare and Safety Act, which would make it illegal to “hold in captivity, or use, a wild-caught or captive-bred orca for performance or entertainment purposes.” The bill would also ban artificial insemination of captive killer whales in California and block the import of orcas or orca semen from other states.
Violators would face a fine up to $100,000 and/or six months in a county jail.
“There is no justification for the continued captive display of orcas for entertainment purposes,” Bloom declared in a written statement prior to a press conference to be held at the Santa Monica Pier. “These beautiful creatures are much too large and far too intelligent to be confined in small, concrete pens for their entire lives. It is time to end the practice of keeping orcas captive for human amusement.”
According to Bloom, the law would be “the most comprehensive protection law for captive orcas in the United States in over 40 years.”
Under the terms of the bill, all 10 orcas held in tanks at SeaWorld San Diego, the only California facility that has whales, “shall be rehabilitated and returned to the wild where possible.” If that is not possible, then the whales must be “transferred and held in a sea pen that is open to the public and not used for performance or entertainment purposes.”
Exempt from the legislation are any orcas held for rehabilitation after a rescue or stranding, or for research purposes. But even these animals would have to be returned to the ocean or sent to a sea pen.
It is not the first time state lawmakers have tried to outlaw the captivity of killer whales, the world’s largest dolphin. South Carolina passed a bill in 1992 against captivity for dolphins and porpoises following efforts by the South Carolina Humane Society to stop a proposed dolphin park in Myrtle Beach. Just last month, New York state Sen. Greg Ball, R-Carmel, introduced a bill to ban orca captivity in that state.
Of course, there are no captive orcas in South Carolina or New York, making the California bill far more than a symbolic gesture.
At least five countries—India, Croatia, Hungary, Chile, and Costa Rica—have also outlawed all cetacean captivity, while Switzerland has banned captivity for dolphins.
Dr. Naomi Rose, marine mammal scientist at the Animal Welfare Institute, said the bill was inspired by the orcas-in-captivity documentary Blackfish.
“The Blackfish effect has never been in greater evidence—everything has led to this, the first serious legislative proposal to prohibit the captive display of this highly intelligent and social species,” Rose wrote in an email. “SeaWorld should join with this effort rather than continue to fight it. They can be on the right side of history.”
Assemblymember Bloom reached out to Gabriela Cowperthwaite, the director of Blackfish, for help with the bill, who in turn consulted with Rose.
“We did not initiate this proposal,” Rose wrote. “But once they reached out to us, we dove in wholeheartedly and assisted in every way we could—helping with the bill language, information, and fact-gathering, and getting support from various sectors of the public, including the scientific community.”
Rose also gave credit to former SeaWorld trainers featured in the documentary for supporting the legislation. Rose, Cowperthwaite, and former SeaWorld trainers Carol Ray and John Hargrove were scheduled to appear with Bloom at the Friday press conference.
Should the bill become law, SeaWorld might want to look at other highly successful aquariums that do not keep cetaceans in swimming pools. The Monterey Aquarium in northern California, for example, is routinely packed with visitors, without a single whale or dolphin in sight.
In South Carolina, where orcas will likely never entertain people, staffers at the South Carolina Aquarium in Charleston routinely direct visitors to local waterways if they want to see dolphins.
The Charleston Post and Courier reported in 2010 that when tourists ask to see the dolphins at the aquarium, the facility’s CEO, Kevin Mills, “smiles and answers, ‘Just walk out on our observation deck and you're bound to see them, swimming freely in the harbor.’ ”
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Source: http://www.takepart.com/article/201...re-calif-lawmaker-propose-ban-orcas-captivity
 
^Never going to happen in our lifetime.

Everyday people are trying to put such laws into place; whether it be high powered personnel like the gentleman mentioned in the article or your next door neighbour who is outraged after watching Blackfish.

It mentions a few cases in which such laws have been passed, and then goes on to say that it was a mere gesture as none of the countries/states actually held Dolphins or Whales at the time of the law passing. Heck, the proposition even got refused here in the UK (several times), we haven't held Dolphins in this country for 21 years and Orca's even longer, but the government have never placed a ban on someone potentially acquiring them in the future as long as the facilities meet European requirements. I'll try and dig out the article I read but there was a plan in place to bring Dolphin's back to the UK around 10 years ago, however, the group who proposed to do as such never acquired the funding needed.

So, basically, this law will never get passed.

And Blackfish, Didn't it just get rejected from the Oscars due to its content being in the most part 'inaccurate'. The shock factor has worn off and SeaWorld won the battle. So why the gentleman who's attempting to pass this ban is aligning himself with Blackfish is beyond me.
 
By all accounts the number of tickets sea world has sold for 2014 is down on last year so it is going to effect them.

People had already bought tickets for 2013 so the effects of the show never showed up.

The quarter after blackfish saw a slump of 600,000 less tickets sold.

http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles ... -expensive

We shall see when figures are released later this year.

What I think will get passed is no more beading and when the current whales die that's it.

Any news yet if people can swim with them again? It's all gone very quiet on the raising floors.
 
^It will be interesting to see if the ban holds up, considering the poor judgement the OSHA Investigator showed...http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 3959.story

"SeaWorld has obtained evidence that Padgett, the officer on the case, disclosed confidential information, "as well as documents submitted in conjunction with a confidential mediation before the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals," according to the letter. The evidence includes written and videotaped statements from a witness, SeaWorld said.

Padgett attended the "Blackfish" premiere and three festivals where the movie was shown, including the Sundance Film Festival, where she stayed free of charge at a home with people involved in making the picture and walked the red carpet with the cast and crew, according to SeaWorld's complaint.

The company also cited numerous Facebook.com posts where Padgett allegedly cheered the film's success and as well as media appearances by the filmmakers. In July of 2013, for example, she allegedly posted a link to a positive story about the film and wrote: "Wow ... take that SeaWorld!!! They've got to be getting nervous now."

EDIT: I am also curious as to where you are getting the "tickets sold for 2014 are down" numbers, considering nothing has even been announced for Q4?
 
Will log onto my laptop tomorrow and go through my history.

Shares in sea works went down today as well.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2 ... rca-shows/

The site just compared pre sales, people have been getting tickets for universal and Disney but not sea world. It was comparing this time last year. Does not really mean that much as sales can pick up but it's interesting as people tend to get them all in one go.

I do wish people would get the fact these whales cannot just be set free.

If Sea World is not allowed whales, this includes Dolphins would they generate enough in come to stay open?
 
I think the reduction in visitor numbers and shares are no more than a piss in the ocean for a company as large as SeaWorld. There were always going to be boycotts from the GP after Blackfish, just as the share prices were expected to drop too. Blackfish achieved the shock factor, but it didn't do the damage that they wanted. SeaWorld have got through the worst of it now, and have they really been affected that badly? I don't think they have.
 
I don't know if they have got through the worst though.

If this law gets past then tbh the worst is only just starting.

It won't just be Killer Whales they cannot keep.

It won't just affect them but many places.

Blackfish achieved what it wanted to, would this law have even been mentioned had it not been for Blackfish?
 
marc said:
I don't know if they have got through the worst though.

If this law gets past then tbh the worst is only just starting.

It won't just be Killer Whales they cannot keep.

It won't just affect them but many places.

Blackfish achieved what it wanted to, would this law have even been mentioned had it not been for Blackfish?
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The law would never get past. It just wouldn't make sense to do so. SeaWorld does so much good for both the state of California and the local wildlife that it could never happen. Even without these plus points that SeaWorld offers, it just wouldn't pass.

It's people who want to feel good about themselves, by doing something they think is helping the whales, they're not helping, they're making matters worse.

A prime example for from this year is the Lolita court battle, this is a whale that should be released from her current location at Miami Seaquarium. She should either be placed in a sea pen or relocated to SeaWorld Orlando. Do gooders (PETA and others) went to court claiming that she should be put on the endangered species list like her free living family in the wild with the hope that if she is included on the list then she would be released back into the wild. WRONG. Lolita is now on the endangered species list, but it has been decided that the safest place for her to reside at this current moment in time is....Miami Seaquarium! Where she's healthily lived for over 40 years. Great work people! You've now pretty much sealed her fate; she'll never see her family again, she'll never see another whale again, she'll be forced to live in a tiny pool until the day she dies, ALONE.

So somebody, again, please tell me how great these anti-cap groups are, and all the good they cause. Because there is one whale who certainly doesn't appreciate what they've done for her.
 
Darren B said:
I think the reduction in visitor numbers and shares are no more than a piss in the ocean for a company as large as SeaWorld. There were always going to be boycotts from the GP after Blackfish, just as the share prices were expected to drop too. Blackfish achieved the shock factor, but it didn't do the damage that they wanted. SeaWorld have got through the worst of it now, and have they really been affected that badly? I don't think they have.
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Now that the parks are no longer owned by Anheuser-Busch, the company is nowhere as large as it used to be.
 
Yes, their numbers are down. But...

"And while attendance dropped 1.4% in the fourth quarter, that metric has improved throughout 2013. Attendance fell 3.6% in the third quarter and 5.7% in the first half of last year."

Considering how much negativity I've heard, even a figure as high as 5.7% is really not a scratch on SeaWorld.

Not to mention that the average armchair activist is unaware that the Busch or Sesame Palace attractions are owned and run by SeaWorld, thus they're not suffering a hit due to bad orca press.

And it's hard to say how much of that attendance drop is Blackfish inspired - I heard BGW was down on attendance last year (prior to the Blackfish backlash) and making significant cuts. Most parks are.

Edit: that mispelling was actually shameful I'm so sorry.
 
Tbh it could be down anyway as the show is not on at the moment due to the tank work.

Other reason it could be down is that people did not visit Orlando last year as they are waiting for the new potter stuff.

I don't know the numbers of the other parks.
 
SeaWorld is under fire yet again. This time for drugging their orcas and U.S. news outlets are running with this story:
The theme park chain SeaWorld, already facing wide criticism from animal rights advocates, treats some of its marine mammals with psychoactive drugs, according to a document obtained by BuzzFeed.
Trainers give their orcas, also known as killer whales, the psychoactive drug benzodiazepine, according to the sworn affidavit filed in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in a dispute between the park company and the rival company Marineland over the transport of a prized killer whale, Ikaika, to SeaWorld.
Benzodiazepines are a type of drug that includes the common human medications Valium and Xanax. The orcas’ mental health issues, SeaWorld’s critics say, are a direct result of their keeping the mammals in captivity.
Jared Goodman, Director of Animal Law at the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), told BuzzFeed that he believes the leaked documents will play a key role in SeaWorld’s future.
“The veterinary records show that orcas at SeaWorld are given psychotropic drugs to stop them from acting aggressively towards each other in the stressful, frustrating conditions in which they’re confined instead of funding the development of coastal sanctuaries - the only humane solution,” Goodman said.
The questions about the drugs given to the whales, which also include a range of antibiotics, come as SeaWorld is reeling from a critical documentary. Blackfish tells the story of a killer whale named Tilikum, who’s been accused of killing three people but is still retained by SeaWorld. Tilikum’s genes are found in 54% of the whales in SeaWorld’s current whale collection, and has fathered at least 21 whales from artificial insemination.
A spokesperson for SeaWorld Fred Jacobs defended the medication in an emailed statement.
“Benzodiazepines are sometimes used in veterinary medicine for the care and treatment of animals, both domestic and in a zoological setting,” Jacobs said. “These medications can be used for sedation for medical procedures, premedication prior to general anesthesia, and for the control of seizures. The use of benzodiazepines is regulated, and these medications are only prescribed to animals by a veterinarian. Their use for cetacean healthcare, including killer whales, is limited, infrequent, and only as clinically indicated based on the assessment of the attending veterinarian. There is no higher priority for SeaWorld than the health and well-being of the animals in its care.”
But animal advocates say the orcas’ condition is far from normal.
The founder of the Orca Research Trust, Ingrid Visser, said the drugs are likely treating a condition caused by captivity, and that their violence is the result of stress, not native aggression.
“They do not cope with being kept in these tanks. They survive to some degree, but they don’t thrive to any degree,” Visser said. “They show stereotypical behaviors that are abnormal, repetitive behaviors like head bobbing, chewing on concrete, and self mutilation by banging the side of their heads on the side of the tank, and there isn’t a single orca living in captivity where you cannot see one of these behaviors, and in many of them you see multiple examples of these behaviors.”
PETA’s president, Ingrid Newkirk, accused SeaWorld of “pump[ing] these marine slaves full of psychotropic drugs in order to force them to perform stupid tricks.”
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Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/justincarissimo/seaworld-puts-its-whales-on-valium-like-drug-documents-show
 
Not being funny these drugs are also given to humans and other animals kept in captivity.

Prozac is given out like cough mixture by doctors.

But with sea world under fire it's not good for them seeing they have said their whales are happy and not stressed.
 
marc said:
But with sea world under fire it's not good for them seeing they have said their whales are happy and not stressed.
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Hey, I'd be a lot happier and less stressed if I was drugged up too!
 
To be fair if one of the whale trainers farted in his wetsuit it'd make the news. SeaWorld have had wave after wave of **** thrown at them and yet they still continue to do what they feel is right for both their business model and for the welfare of the Orca's. I say good on them.

Hopefully PETA and the other organisations involved in this war against SeaWorld will eventually give up the chase a little and devote more time to the animals out there that really need their help. The young Elephant in India barely touched the news even though it was revealed that he spends his days chained up, spiked and whipped whilst living in horrific conditions. This happens all over the world, including here in the UK but all the major welfare organisations are still heavily pushing SeaWorld into the media spotlight and taking away the potential to make people aware of some of the awful animal cruelty that exists on our planet. Offer that Elephant the care and attention that the SeaWorld Orcas receive and he'd take it in a heartbeat!
 
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