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Election 2010!

In a vaguely apt bit of news for CF.

Not only did the Tories issue their manifesto from the same place the Cybermen took over the world :roll:, but they have been there before...

I think that somebody should have pointed out their last PR stunt at Battersea:
http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/04 ... on-launch/

Poor John Broom :(
 
I'm actually looking forward to the debate tonight. I know it will be more controlled than an OCD persons CD collection, but I can see something happening that will spark debate of some sort.

I'm looking forward to seeing Nick Clegg getting a good word in, and I hope the lights are good enough to see David Cameron's shiny head :D If the ventilation is bad, Gordon's jaw might have to drop further to get some vital ageing oxygen...

It's weird, I must be the most enthusiastic person about politics who CAN'T vote :(
 
I've given up on the debate.

Brown looks like a number-mumbling fool with no clue. He was obviously buddying up to Clegg as he knows he needs him to defeat the Tories, it took him over an hour before he mentioned anything against the Lib Dems.

Clegg hasn't entered into any debate, he's just spouting off his manifesto like a broken record.

And Cameron, although I'm willing to say here that I agree with his views most, isn't performing under the pressure being put on him by the other two.
 
Clegg came off better then any other of the leaders. At the moment out of the 3 leaders he would get my vote.

As much as I am more conservative I still don't want to vote for Cameron, he cannot relate to the 'average man'.
 
I will state now that I have no specific political alliances - I keep an open mind and could not vote for any party. I do, whoever, think that Iain Stewart (Con) should win MK South. He's a nice fella and cares bout people my age more than any other person.

This first debate was done on ITV, thankfully, not a single advert throughout the 90 min spectacle.

The debate opened with each leader giving an opening statement. Nick Clegg started. He spoke with confidence, and looked in control. Gordon Brown was slightly shaky in his opening words I felt, but then quickly recovered. David Cameron, like the rest, spoke very well and apologised for the cloud over politics and politicians.

The first question was on immigration. Cameron spoke well, fluently and with good ideas. I saw one man nodding at Nick Clegg - the first of the 72 rules broken - but it was deserved. He spoke very well about policies of his party and slagged off the others very professionally. Brown spoke well, but nothing major to comment on. Clegg's example of footballers not getting into the country I thought was poor.

This question also saw interruptions by the politicians - again, not supposed to happen - but was well received. It was rather bland up until then, and I suspect without it, many people may have turned off.

Nick Clegg's view on regional immigration I thought would not work, but he explained well, and I think it's a great idea.

This continued throughout 7 more quetsions. One question irritated me - well, more the question asker. He was a Jewish boy, and looked young. I know for certain I have seen him on Question Time before asking questions and being very vocal. I know it.

The debate didn't get boring for me at all, but I could see many people getting bored with the layout and turning off. Having said that, I think that it was probably the most viewed programme this year by far.

Who did I think come out on top? Nick Clegg by far. He spoke well, was honest and had good policies. Cameron and Brown did well, but Cameron did much better. He spoke without being bland, while most of what Brown said bored me.

The first polls out after the debate by ITV showed Clegg doing far better than the other 2 leaders - and rightly so.

Clegg was incredible.
 
Dave said:
I still don't want to vote for Cameron, he cannot relate to the 'average man'.

I don't want to be related to, I want to be governed well.

Clegg won, clearly, he seemed the more confident and assured, mainly because he's the man that entered the debate with nothing to loose and everything to gain.
 
Inverse said:
Clegg won, clearly, he seemed the more confident and assured, mainly because he's the man that entered the debate with nothing to loose and everything to gain.

You're wrong, he had nothing to lose ;)
 
Inverse said:
Dave said:
I still don't want to vote for Cameron, he cannot relate to the 'average man'.

I don't want to be related to, I want to be governed well.

Well he wants to relate to you, he needs to otherwise he may not get your vote.

I was a bit taken back by his 'my children are in school' and it dosen't work for him since his kids are probably in private school.
 
Clegg is a good speaker everyone thought he would win tonight, the other 2 near enough ignored him.

Clegg was very clear and new what to say.

It was a good debate and tbh its the first time I have ever thought of voting for Clegg.

I would not vote for Brown and for me Cameron tonight came over really badly and not once actually backed up his policies.
 
Dave said:
I was a bit taken back by his 'my children are in school' and it dosen't work for him since his kids are probably in private school.

His children are in normal secondary schools. He clearly said so during the debate and I remember the media around his kid going to school a few years back.
 
You would think to even become an MP in the first place, you would have to be a good "speaker" anyway, and "speaking well" becomes especially relevant when the leaders of the 3 main parties have a chance to market their parties in this way, so judging any of them on "how well they spoke" is a little bit naive in my opinion.

I'm still not sure who to vote for to be honest, or whether I'll even vote at all (although I don't really want Puff Daddy chasing me around with a a gun). However, whoever gets in to power, I'm unconvinced that it'll change my life in too many ways anyway.
 
I watched it.

I like Clegg but he's far too soft on some issues - particularly Trident. I don't care what any namby pambies say, we need it. We cannot be a big player on the world stage without nuclear weapons. By all means reduce our stockpile, but to get rid of it? With Iran and "China" (according to Cameron) and the threat of general terrorism in the world? And countries like Pakistand have them? No.

Cameron is horrible. I've read several books about him and I do genuinely think that he has Britain's interests at heart. He's just too slimy. I agree with most of the Tory policies and it's where I lean, but he is just horrible. Beleive it or not, I think he is an average bloke that just so happens to be rich. However, I don't want him in charge of my country.

Brown was pretty good last night - strong, robust and he delivered his staments well. Just a few things cheesed me off. Namely immigration. The reason it's falling is because there are no jobs for them to have! My Dad's missus is Polish and she has had to **** off back home because even she can't get a job! It's also become too expensive for her to stay! I genuinely would vote for Labour on yesterday's performance but the problem is we've had 13 years of Brown so I'm wel aware of his record.

I'm still undecided, although probably leaning towards the Tories but I'm likely to spoil my vote on 6th May.
 
I was going to write a short little bit on the debate last night, but Ian has summed up everything I was going to say.

Clegg didn't really seem to be able to actually say anything worthwhile. Cameron was just a twat, and Brown did quite well really. I didn't like the format of the debates though, they felt very awkward, artificial and set-up.

It'll be interesting to see how things develop though. I get to vote for the first time this year, and I feel like I should take more of an interest, but I do get massively bored by it all!
 
I personally think Clegg easily won the debate, Brown actually didn't do a bad job, Cameron made himself look like a tit as usual.

To be honest as long as the Conservatives don't win I'm not bothered, I hate that gang of upper class idiots, all they care about is the rich people and regular people who vote for them are idiots tbh. Proven by the fact my local candidate, Andrew Bridgen is a millionaire who owns a massive fruit and vegetable company. They can **** off.
 
^Whilst I agree, I don't also think it would be a particularity good change for Clegg to be elected. I think his policies on Europe are daft.
 
Clegg. TRIDENT TRIDENT TRIDENT.

Brown. Conservatives have been wrong on every big issue.

Cameron. What a wonderful question. You are a delightful person. What is my policy? Well, it's better than theirs! What do you mean what exactly is my policy, I've just told you, it's better than the others.



Clegg won by a mile but then he had nothing to lose, Brown was brilliant to be honest, he's come on massively in terms of his debating techniques. Cameron got embarrassed by both of them, and hopefully that mug of a man doesn't get into power.
 
Suprizingly I watched this. Before this I hadn't got a clue who did what, but now I finally do a little.

Cameron came across as a prick to me and I don't trust him.

Clegg was clear and came down to a personal level I thought. Which was nice. His things with cutting school class numbers are more hassle and costly than its worth I feel in the long run.

Brown, well he seems alright.

I'm fine with whatever happens along as the Concervatives don't get in power, going by the last time in the 80's...
 
I think in my ideal world, the next government would be a coalition between the Lib Dems and Labour, Brown still as PM and Vince Cable for Chancellor.

What still pisses me off about these parties, (and this is unlikely to change) is that none of them are willing to say that VAT is going to rise to 20% for all these promised "cuts" and tax breaks they are offering.
 
Prepare for a giant post.

I've gone through all 3 main party manifestos (I must be warped).

Lib Dems's is far and away the best - FULL of detail and policy, easy to read, and is fully costed at the end.

Labour's is appalling - boring, full of waffle, mostly "we'll improve this" or "look at that". If nature abhors a vacuum, then this manifesto is about to turn into a singularity. It's ugly too.

Conservatives's is the longest, has more to say than Labour's, but is mostly based around "we're screwed - so we're going to get the public to run everything for free" (aka "Big Society" - well you wouldn't want a small one). It's also has some VERY Orwellian graphics, quite disturbing.

Ultimately I think this is why Clegg was able to trounce Cameron and Brown at the first debate - he actually has proper policy initiatives to back him up, the others have mostly rhetoric.

There ARE some policy statements in there though, so how do they stack up?

I've listed what I think are the key points - I've ignored anything which is "same as it is now", or where they all agree.

(You're going to see a pattern here - bugger all from Labour since they're mostly "more of the same", more from Conservatives, tons from Lib Dems - it's not my fault, it's what the manifestos are like!).


Economy
(The UK is now skint - we're nearly a trillion in debt, compared to £350b in 1997. We spend more now per year on debt interest (£42b) than on education (£41b)).

Labour
• "Tough choices on tax."
• A bonus tax.
• Reduced tax relief on pensions.
• 50p tax rate on earnings over £150,000.
• 1p on National Insurance Contributions (which is what the Conservatives keep hitting them with).

Conservatives
• Cancel the Labour 1p NI rise.
• Stop paying tax credits to better-off families with incomes over £50,000.
• Freeze council tax for two years.

Lib Dems
• Cancel the Labour 1p NI rise.
• Break up the banks, to reduce future risk to the taxpayer.
• Increase the income tax threshold to £10,000 (giving low & middle income families an extra £750, costed by a "mansion tax" plus others).
• Bring forward urgent proposals for a financial transaction tax (the "Robin Hood" tax).
• Scrap compulsory retirement ages.
• Set the minimum wage at the same level for all workers over 16.
• Separate Post Office Ltd from the Royal Mail and retain Post Office Ltd in full public ownership.
• Stop MEPs having to travel to the Strasbourg Parliament every month, wasting €200 million a year.


Immigration
They all have some type of points system.

Lib Dems
• Immediately reintroduce exit checks at all ports and airports.
• Secure Britain’s borders by giving a National Border Force police powers.
• Prioritise deportation efforts on criminals - let law-abiding families earn citizenship.
• Scrap plans for new biometric passports.


Education
Conservatives
• "Big Society".
• Establish a free online database of exam papers and marking schemes.

Lib Dems
• Reduce class sizes.
• Scrap university tuition fees for all students taking their first degree.
• Immediately scrap fees for final year students.
• Axe the rigid National Curriculum.


Transport
Conservatives
• Stop the third Heathrow runway.

Lib Dems
• Cancel plans for a third runway at Heathrow.
• Open closed rail lines and add extra tracks.
• Cut rail fares.
• Make Network Rail refund a third of your ticket price if you have to take a rail replacement bus service.
• Require airlines to be honest and upfront about pricing.


Crime
Conservatives
• "We are determined that early release will not be introduced again, so we will redevelop the prison estate and increase capacity as necessary to stop it."
• "When offenders leave prison, they will be trained and rehabilitated by private and voluntary sector providers."

Lib Dems
• Introduce a presumption against short-term sentences of less than six months.
• Cancel Labour’s billion-pound prison building programme.
• Pay for 3,000 more police on the beat, funded by scrapping ID cards.
• Reform CRB checks to only one record that is portable, rather than multiple checks for each activity.
• Make prisoners work and contribute from their prison wages to a compensation fund for victims.
• Make hospitals share non-confidential information with the police so they know where gun and knife crime is happening.
• Give people a direct say in how petty criminals and those who engage in anti-social behaviour are punished by setting up Neighbourhood Justice Panels (NJPs).
• Prosecute and convict terrorists by allowing intercept evidence in court.


Defence
They will all have some sort of "Strategic Defence Review".

Labour
• Renew Trident.

Conservatives
• Renew Trident
• Double the operational allowance (what the forces are paid per day when out on Ops - currently £13?).

Lib Dems
• Scrap the Trident replacement (saving £100b), and hold a full defence review to establish the best alternative.
• Give a pay rise to the lower ranks to match the starting salary of their emergency services counterparts.


Europe
Conservatives
• Referenda for hand-over of powers to the EU.
• "A Conservative government would never take the UK into the Euro."
• "A liberal Conservative foreign policy."

Lib Dems
• Referenda for fundamental EU change.
• Referendum on joining Euro ("Wrong to join at the moment.").
• End ‘gold-plating’ of EU rules.
• "European co-operation is the best way for Britain to be strong, safe and influential in the future."


Civil Rights
Conservatives
• Replace Human Rights Act with a UK Bill of Rights.
• Repeal the Hunting Act on a free vote.
• Launch an annual "Big Society Day".
• Create a new right to government data, to request datasets in an open and standardised format.

Lib Dems
• End plans to store your email and internet records (Labour's National Intercept Database).
• Review the rushed-through Digital Economy Bill.
• Restore the right to protest by reforming the Public Order Act.
• Reform of the English and Welsh libel laws.


Government Reform
Labour
• Referendum on Alternative Vote for elections to the House of Commons.
• Referendum on a democratic and accountable Second Chamber.
• Free vote in Parliament on reducing the voting age to 16.
• Legislation to ensure Parliaments sit for a fixed term .

Conservatives
• "We will work to build a consensus for a mainly-elected second chamber to replace the current House of Lords."
• "We will not stand in the way of referendum on further legislative powers requested by the Welsh Assembly."

Lib Dems
• Proportional voting system for MPs.
• Replace the House of Lords with a fully-elected second chamber.
• Give the right to vote from age 16.
• Introduce fixed-term parliaments.
• Get big money out of politics by capping donations at £10,000.
• Give the Wales National Assembly primary legislative powers so that it becomes a true Welsh Parliament.


Housing
Lots about "green belts", "regeneration", "energy efficiency" and the like.

Lib Dems
• Scrap burdensome Home Information Packs.
• Stop major new housing developments in major flood risk areas.


Energy
Conservatives
• Clear the way for new nuclear power stations – provided they receive no public subsidy.

Lib Dems
• Reject a new generation of nuclear power stations, in favour of energy conservation and renewable energy.


Consumer Rights
Conservatives
• Introduce a seven-day cooling off period for store cards.

Lib Dems
• Stop private sector wheel-clamping.
• End unfair bank and financial transaction charges, so you cannot be charged more than the costs incurred.
 
Thanks for that Slayed.

Have to admit Lib Dems's win it for me never ever thought I would say that, but will they really be able to do half the things they say?

When they increase the tax bracket to £10,000 will they be changing the tax codes? That has never been covered.
 
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