CoasterCrazy
Giga Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
^All it is is the plane's phone, which somehow is still intact...
^All it is is the plane's phone, which somehow is still intact...
Thorpe Park |"The Swarm"| B&M Wing Coaster
- Thread starter Ian
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FaceYourNemesis
Hyper Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
^ or better yet, have the queue-line follow through the plane. That might just work.
^ or better yet, have the queue-line follow through the plane. That might just work.
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
On that note, I think this zero-g could actually be quite good if the speed is right. If it's not too fast it'll probably give that nice slow rolling sensation. If it's too fast it might be a little uncomfortable. Regardless of that though, the theming is shaping up well. C'mon Thorpe, KEEP IT UP!
Well... not quite. I mean, B&M use trims all the time. It's just a case of whether they put them high up towards the top of the element (like the parabolic hills on the Hypers), or low down like this one that suggests their role. You wouldn't want to trim the speed at the bottom of a drop in case it loses more speed you can't account for going up the hill.Tom G said:
On that note, I think this zero-g could actually be quite good if the speed is right. If it's not too fast it'll probably give that nice slow rolling sensation. If it's too fast it might be a little uncomfortable. Regardless of that though, the theming is shaping up well. C'mon Thorpe, KEEP IT UP!
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
The plane must be a real salvaged plane. There's no reason why they'd have made that phone and certainly no reason it would have german on it.
I figured the fire engine and helicopter, if they ended up being used, would be real... But for some reason I didn't think the plane would be. I guess because they specified odd parts of it. I mean, if you're gonna buy a scrap plane, why would you only use such awkward parts of it? Unless they put in the plans what they could get ahold of?
Dunno.
But it looks amazing...
The plane must be a real salvaged plane. There's no reason why they'd have made that phone and certainly no reason it would have german on it.
I figured the fire engine and helicopter, if they ended up being used, would be real... But for some reason I didn't think the plane would be. I guess because they specified odd parts of it. I mean, if you're gonna buy a scrap plane, why would you only use such awkward parts of it? Unless they put in the plans what they could get ahold of?
Dunno.
But it looks amazing...
I know of it happening once. That incident with Raptor. Irrelevant though. You're wrong. The logic that "I've never seen a B&M valley so they wouldn't prepare for it" makes no sense even if they were magically immune.
_koppen
Hyper Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
Oh that's not my logic. My logic is that B&M would never build a rollercoaster that suffer such a big risk of valleying that they need to put in a brake to stop the train when it happens.
At least not for the first element of the ride.
Joey said:
Oh that's not my logic. My logic is that B&M would never build a rollercoaster that suffer such a big risk of valleying that they need to put in a brake to stop the train when it happens.
At least not for the first element of the ride.
rollermonkey
Strata Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
Plenty of Beemers have trims at low points in the track. They are regular trims, and not used to stop a volleying train.
Plenty of Beemers have trims at low points in the track. They are regular trims, and not used to stop a volleying train.
_koppen
Hyper Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
Thank you!
It makes perfect sense to have a trim brake there, if the train is uneven loaded and heavier on the left side, it will clear the zero-g on top of the drop faster than if it were even loaded, and by that go faster than desired.
rollermonkey said:
Thank you!
It makes perfect sense to have a trim brake there, if the train is uneven loaded and heavier on the left side, it will clear the zero-g on top of the drop faster than if it were even loaded, and by that go faster than desired.
T0M
Hyper Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
And how is the ride system able to make the determination that the train is going too fast so to activate the trim? Or will the trim always apply friction to the train regardless of speed? Can the trim's level of speed reduction be varied? I guess these are more general questions really.
And how is the ride system able to make the determination that the train is going too fast so to activate the trim? Or will the trim always apply friction to the train regardless of speed? Can the trim's level of speed reduction be varied? I guess these are more general questions really.
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
See to me, it makes no sense to put the trim there. Now I know that we're looking at small changes, but it doesn't seem like these are unreasonable assumptions. Say, for example, that there's a strong-ish cross/head wind. If the train was over-speeding slightly when it's at the bottom of the drop, it hasn't been affected by the wind yet, and the trim slows it down. Next the train climbs the hill towards the zero-g roll and suddenly the train starts to loose more speed than it normally would. At this point the trim has actually caused the train to under-speed the element. If the trim was on the incline (see B&M Hypers), then the trim activates at the last second to correct and speed changes. I don't see why this logic is particularly difficult to understand. Seeing as B&M are such perfectionists, this doesn't really surprise me. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, and I'm not saying I know, all I'm doing is thinking of it logically. The only possibility is that the track up to the zero-g roll isn't suited for a trim by having some banking changes etc._koppen said:
Sensors. All those little turquoise boxes you see are sensors to let the ride system know where the trains are in the circuit. They simply have ones that measure how fast the train is going (say, time for the front car to pass the sensor, then use speed=distance/time as you know the length of the cars), then if this speed it too high, activate the trim. This will be able to happen lightening fast. I don't know about the pressure being changed, it might (or must) be possible, but I don't know if they do.Tom G said:
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
^They don't have to turn the trim on though. It's not uncommon for trims to be put in place and never used, although more often than not they just leave the holes in the track for the trim if they're unsure if it will need one.
^They don't have to turn the trim on though. It's not uncommon for trims to be put in place and never used, although more often than not they just leave the holes in the track for the trim if they're unsure if it will need one.
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
Yep, I think I said very early on in this topic it was likely to be a real plane. There are huge plane graveyards all over the place and it's essentially just scrap metal. It's got to be cheaper to pay tonnage for scrap than to build a plane from scratch. The destroyed bit attached to the wing is definitely "Merlin created" mind. I could be wrong of course, but the level of detail and scale seems far too high for an inhouse production (as you say Joey, that phone with the German on it).
Joey said:
Yep, I think I said very early on in this topic it was likely to be a real plane. There are huge plane graveyards all over the place and it's essentially just scrap metal. It's got to be cheaper to pay tonnage for scrap than to build a plane from scratch. The destroyed bit attached to the wing is definitely "Merlin created" mind. I could be wrong of course, but the level of detail and scale seems far too high for an inhouse production (as you say Joey, that phone with the German on it).
_koppen
Hyper Poster
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
I think that you are over estimating the wind a little bit. It really don't affect the coaster as much as you think, exept when the wind is getting pretty strong, and if that happens the ride system will warn the operators, and a decision to close the ride or not will be taken.
Becasue if the trains is fully loaded and there is a lot of bigger and heavier people sitting on the left side of it compared to the right side, the train will pick up speed alot faster because of the way the zero-g roll turns into the first drop. Then it will overspeed and needs to be trimmed.
Then if the train is heavier loaded on the right side, it will travel slover down the first drop compared to if it is even loaded. B&M has sure taken this into account when designing the coaster, they need to make sure that the ride won't valley, so the design is made so that the coaster can clear the course if heavier loaded on the right side, but then it needs to be trimmed if it's loaded heavier on the left side.
This problem does not occur on Wild Eagle and Raptor as they have straight drops, but you will se the same trim brake on X-flight.
Hixee said:
I think that you are over estimating the wind a little bit. It really don't affect the coaster as much as you think, exept when the wind is getting pretty strong, and if that happens the ride system will warn the operators, and a decision to close the ride or not will be taken.
Ethan said:
Becasue if the trains is fully loaded and there is a lot of bigger and heavier people sitting on the left side of it compared to the right side, the train will pick up speed alot faster because of the way the zero-g roll turns into the first drop. Then it will overspeed and needs to be trimmed.
Then if the train is heavier loaded on the right side, it will travel slover down the first drop compared to if it is even loaded. B&M has sure taken this into account when designing the coaster, they need to make sure that the ride won't valley, so the design is made so that the coaster can clear the course if heavier loaded on the right side, but then it needs to be trimmed if it's loaded heavier on the left side.
This problem does not occur on Wild Eagle and Raptor as they have straight drops, but you will se the same trim brake on X-flight.
Re: The Swarm - B&M 'Wing-Rider', Thorpe Park 2012
Becasue if the trains is fully loaded and there is a lot of bigger and heavier people sitting on the left side of it compared to the right side, the train will pick up speed alot faster because of the way the zero-g roll turns into the first drop. Then it will overspeed and needs to be trimmed.
Then if the train is heavier loaded on the right side, it will travel slover down the first drop compared to if it is even loaded. B&M has sure taken this into account when designing the coaster, they need to make sure that the ride won't valley, so the design is made so that the coaster can clear the course if heavier loaded on the right side, but then it needs to be trimmed if it's loaded heavier on the left side.
This problem does not occur on Wild Eagle and Raptor as they have straight drops, but you will se the same trim brake on X-flight.[/quote]
I understand that the ride might want to be trimmed, it's not that I'm saying is wrong. HOWEVER, I haven't actually seen (or studied at least) the most recent photos and I now know why the new ride's trim is at the bottom. It's because the track starts to twist much earlier that I thought. The trims can't be placed on track that has any yaw or roll (obviously), so they've put the trim that low on the last bit of straight track. If the zero-g roll wasn't as drawn out (in the entrance at least), then it would be higher up the hill. Guaranteed.
I'm not overestimating the effect of the wind. It can stop trains on TTD and Stealth from clearing the top hats, then it's going to affect these massive trains a hell of a lot more._koppen said:
Ethan said:
Becasue if the trains is fully loaded and there is a lot of bigger and heavier people sitting on the left side of it compared to the right side, the train will pick up speed alot faster because of the way the zero-g roll turns into the first drop. Then it will overspeed and needs to be trimmed.
Then if the train is heavier loaded on the right side, it will travel slover down the first drop compared to if it is even loaded. B&M has sure taken this into account when designing the coaster, they need to make sure that the ride won't valley, so the design is made so that the coaster can clear the course if heavier loaded on the right side, but then it needs to be trimmed if it's loaded heavier on the left side.
This problem does not occur on Wild Eagle and Raptor as they have straight drops, but you will se the same trim brake on X-flight.[/quote]
I understand that the ride might want to be trimmed, it's not that I'm saying is wrong. HOWEVER, I haven't actually seen (or studied at least) the most recent photos and I now know why the new ride's trim is at the bottom. It's because the track starts to twist much earlier that I thought. The trims can't be placed on track that has any yaw or roll (obviously), so they've put the trim that low on the last bit of straight track. If the zero-g roll wasn't as drawn out (in the entrance at least), then it would be higher up the hill. Guaranteed.
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