Kings Island | Banshee | B&M Invert
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Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
I strongly think that it will be a giga coaster, if not a wing rider. While I think an invert feels like the best decision, I, for some reason, feel like parks consider B&M inverts as "old technology". The last B&M invert they ordered was Patriot seven years ago, and since then the trends for Cedar Fair have been giga coasters (I305 and Laviathan), high speed, low to the ground coasters (Prowler, Maverick), and GCI wood coasters (Gold Striker, Prowler, Renegade). While wing riders haven't been a Cedar Fair trend, they are considered to be the new Amusement industry trend.
I strongly think that it will be a giga coaster, if not a wing rider. While I think an invert feels like the best decision, I, for some reason, feel like parks consider B&M inverts as "old technology". The last B&M invert they ordered was Patriot seven years ago, and since then the trends for Cedar Fair have been giga coasters (I305 and Laviathan), high speed, low to the ground coasters (Prowler, Maverick), and GCI wood coasters (Gold Striker, Prowler, Renegade). While wing riders haven't been a Cedar Fair trend, they are considered to be the new Amusement industry trend.
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
Basing assumptions on one piece of cement in the ground is a bit short-sighted.
Rather, I'd encourage folks to look at the roller coaster lineup and ask what is missing.
There are only two amusement parks in the Cedar Fair chain that do not have a full circuit inverted roller coaster - Valleyfair and Kings Island.
Inverted roller coasters are great staple rides that offer great thrills on a reliable basis. It's a great addition that has worked countless times before.
I could see a B&M Invert being a great success at Kings Island.
Basing assumptions on one piece of cement in the ground is a bit short-sighted.
Rather, I'd encourage folks to look at the roller coaster lineup and ask what is missing.
There are only two amusement parks in the Cedar Fair chain that do not have a full circuit inverted roller coaster - Valleyfair and Kings Island.
Inverted roller coasters are great staple rides that offer great thrills on a reliable basis. It's a great addition that has worked countless times before.
I could see a B&M Invert being a great success at Kings Island.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
Especially considering this is Cedar Fair and the whole Behemoth/Leviathan thing...
The last time a B&M invero opened in the US was Patriot... In 2006. No one buys them anymore.
And besides, a wingrider would be an invert, essentially.
When has that ever been a reasonably reliable way of guessing new additions, ever? When do parks ever do that? It may seem logical to us to get something different to the existing lineup, but clearly it's not.
Especially considering this is Cedar Fair and the whole Behemoth/Leviathan thing...
The last time a B&M invero opened in the US was Patriot... In 2006. No one buys them anymore.
And besides, a wingrider would be an invert, essentially.
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
Those certainly look to be the same bolt patterns that B&M uses, that pattern is used when the support is coming in at an angle to the footer though. In that pattern the bolts are placed in a slight arc on either side of the support, so the direction of the support can be seen by drawing a line through the pattern where there are no bolts. Therefore, all three of those supports that attach to the footer will be coming in at an angle. Also, those three supports are not connected to each other (other then at the footer). I believe that the bottom left bolt pattern will have a support heading to the left, and the bottom right will have a support heading to the right. I am not sure which way the topmost support is heading, but because it is obviously a larger support it will be supporting a higher piece of track than the other two (lift hill maybe?).
On another note though, this picture makes me say this is going to be either an Invert or a Flyer. The reason is that these footers are obviously for a station and maintenance bays. That footer style is the one that B&M uses when working with I-beams though. Inverts and Flyers are the only coaster type that uses those type of supports for both the maintenance bays and the station. Based on the insane number of B&M flyers that Cedar Fair has bought, I would say that there is a good chance that at long last KI is getting their B&M invert.
Those certainly look to be the same bolt patterns that B&M uses, that pattern is used when the support is coming in at an angle to the footer though. In that pattern the bolts are placed in a slight arc on either side of the support, so the direction of the support can be seen by drawing a line through the pattern where there are no bolts. Therefore, all three of those supports that attach to the footer will be coming in at an angle. Also, those three supports are not connected to each other (other then at the footer). I believe that the bottom left bolt pattern will have a support heading to the left, and the bottom right will have a support heading to the right. I am not sure which way the topmost support is heading, but because it is obviously a larger support it will be supporting a higher piece of track than the other two (lift hill maybe?).
On another note though, this picture makes me say this is going to be either an Invert or a Flyer. The reason is that these footers are obviously for a station and maintenance bays. That footer style is the one that B&M uses when working with I-beams though. Inverts and Flyers are the only coaster type that uses those type of supports for both the maintenance bays and the station. Based on the insane number of B&M flyers that Cedar Fair has bought, I would say that there is a good chance that at long last KI is getting their B&M invert.
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
Demand for B&M Inverts is not what it was 10 years ago because all major U.S. parks have had their inverted roller coaster needs met.
Yeah, there was Leviathan.
But there was also Patriot, Silver Bullet, Maverick, Renegade, Diamondback, Behemoth, relocations of all Geauga Lake coasters, Intimidator, Intimidator 305, and GateKeeper. I would say these were all rational, well-thought-out additions that offered new roller coaster experiences not previously found.
Which I believe is simply because the market has been saturated with B&M Inverts. Take a look at all major amusement parks in the U.S., and you will notice that, for the most part, all of them have an inverted roller coaster. (A lot of B&M Inverts and Vekoma SLC)Joey said:
Demand for B&M Inverts is not what it was 10 years ago because all major U.S. parks have had their inverted roller coaster needs met.
Of course it is impossible to predict a roller coaster, but I would say that there is logic on Cedar Fair's lineup selections.
Yeah, there was Leviathan.
But there was also Patriot, Silver Bullet, Maverick, Renegade, Diamondback, Behemoth, relocations of all Geauga Lake coasters, Intimidator, Intimidator 305, and GateKeeper. I would say these were all rational, well-thought-out additions that offered new roller coaster experiences not previously found.
Taxi
Mega Poster
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
Yep. A B&M inverted coaster is honestly the best choice for KI. I don't think it will be a flyer due to FireHawk, but hey..look at CW.
Well, here is a photo of Sheikra's station...
She uses I-Beams.
I don't know if this is simply because of the overall station design or what.
Hyde244 said:
Yep. A B&M inverted coaster is honestly the best choice for KI. I don't think it will be a flyer due to FireHawk, but hey..look at CW.
CPcisco said:
Well, here is a photo of Sheikra's station...
She uses I-Beams.
I don't know if this is simply because of the overall station design or what.
Jarrett
Most Obnoxious Member 2016
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
My money's officially on the world's biggest invert. The difference between KI and CW is tht Leviathan was probably originally for KBF, and they moved it to CW for some reason. I think this coaster is originally designe for KI, and an invert fits the park so well. An inverted hyper coaster would both do the Banshee name justice and be an adequate replacement for Son if Beast. (Okay, Medieval Torture: The Ride is an accurate replacement for SoB, but in regards to what SoB was suppose to do, a giant invert could possibly fill that extreme coaster gap).
My money's officially on the world's biggest invert. The difference between KI and CW is tht Leviathan was probably originally for KBF, and they moved it to CW for some reason. I think this coaster is originally designe for KI, and an invert fits the park so well. An inverted hyper coaster would both do the Banshee name justice and be an adequate replacement for Son if Beast. (Okay, Medieval Torture: The Ride is an accurate replacement for SoB, but in regards to what SoB was suppose to do, a giant invert could possibly fill that extreme coaster gap).
Jarrett
Most Obnoxious Member 2016
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
I agree that it will definitely be a B&M. The plan is close by and with Diamondback's success, there's no reason not to go to them again. I'll ask around at the park this Thursday, see if we can get another big-mouthed ride op like the one that spilled the beans about Wild Eagle.
I agree that it will definitely be a B&M. The plan is close by and with Diamondback's success, there's no reason not to go to them again. I'll ask around at the park this Thursday, see if we can get another big-mouthed ride op like the one that spilled the beans about Wild Eagle.
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
B&M Launched coaster
If there's one thing I've learned at Disney it's that low level employees like Ride Ops don't really know anything about future plans. More times than not it's re-stating well known Rumors or just total bull **** they just made up...
Snoo said:
B&M Launched coaster
2012Jarrett said:
If there's one thing I've learned at Disney it's that low level employees like Ride Ops don't really know anything about future plans. More times than not it's re-stating well known Rumors or just total bull **** they just made up...
scomora
Roller Poster
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
It's like walking into an Apple store and asking someone at the Genius Bar (RIP) what the next iPhone is going to be like. They really don't know. Like you said, they're most likely going to tell you what's been floating around or they'll tell you that they have no idea.
It's like walking into an Apple store and asking someone at the Genius Bar (RIP) what the next iPhone is going to be like. They really don't know. Like you said, they're most likely going to tell you what's been floating around or they'll tell you that they have no idea.
Jarrett
Most Obnoxious Member 2016
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
As of now, the official guess I want to lock in is a 200+ foot B&M invert. It would really fill the gap left by Son of Beast for an "extreme" coaster and they could theme it to a sort of winged demon and call it Banshee. It would fill the need for the inverted coaster while still being different from Firehawk. And after breaking the winged coaster record with GateKeeper, it seems like Cedar Fair would also go after the inverted coaster record, which I believe has been Alpengiest for a good 16 or so years. It would be great in the terrainy plot of land they have to work with (possibly similar to Alpengeist) and would look lovely from Action Zone. And maybe it would ruin Adventure Express a little less than Son of Beast did. Seriously, I hated how it was supposed to be in the jungle and there was this giant mountain of wood looming over everything. XD
Just my guess. If not, then I think it will be a dive machine.
I don't think we're looking at a giga and the reason why is because of a popular rumor surrounding Leviathan. The rumor is that it was originally meant for KBF and was moved to CW for some reason. I don't think Cedar Fair would waste all that space on another large B&M without inversions. They did on Leviathan but I don't think they originally intended to. I could very well be wrong, though.
As of now, the official guess I want to lock in is a 200+ foot B&M invert. It would really fill the gap left by Son of Beast for an "extreme" coaster and they could theme it to a sort of winged demon and call it Banshee. It would fill the need for the inverted coaster while still being different from Firehawk. And after breaking the winged coaster record with GateKeeper, it seems like Cedar Fair would also go after the inverted coaster record, which I believe has been Alpengiest for a good 16 or so years. It would be great in the terrainy plot of land they have to work with (possibly similar to Alpengeist) and would look lovely from Action Zone. And maybe it would ruin Adventure Express a little less than Son of Beast did. Seriously, I hated how it was supposed to be in the jungle and there was this giant mountain of wood looming over everything. XD
Just my guess. If not, then I think it will be a dive machine.
I don't think we're looking at a giga and the reason why is because of a popular rumor surrounding Leviathan. The rumor is that it was originally meant for KBF and was moved to CW for some reason. I don't think Cedar Fair would waste all that space on another large B&M without inversions. They did on Leviathan but I don't think they originally intended to. I could very well be wrong, though.
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
On Leviathan - Roller coaster planning takes years of process. The way folks have shaped the whole Knott's rumor - they make it sound like Cedar Fair pulled the entire layout as is straight from Knott's and randomly crammed it into CW. Rest assured, even if Leviathan was indeed destined for Knott's, consideration was given that the footprint would be appropriate.
What's more - how different can a B&M Hyper/Giga be? They go out, they come back, and they have airtime hills. There are only so many combinations, and frankly can't imagine a truly "different" experience between proposing a B&M Giga at Knott's nor CW. They would be 300 ft. tall airtime machines, with layouts similar to every other B&M Hyper we have seen. Except Raging Bull. That's kinda crap.
On Kings Island - at this point in the process, those in the know are Cedar Fair Planning and Design (e.g. Rob Decker), KI Planning and Design, necessary financial folks, and Matt Ouimet. Outside of that, you don't need anyone else in on the process, not even necessarily Don Helbig, KI's marketing manager. You would be very surprised how little even marketing and PR departments know about amusement park plans, even when it is their very job to promote for new attractions.
I'd like to envision an announcement towards the end of the summer, late July/early August. Kings Island had begun footer construction and even had B&M track on-site when they announced Diamondback back in 2008 (on August 8th). Sooner or later, Kings Island will spill the beans - a relocation of Cedar Point's old Pirate Ride.
On Leviathan - Roller coaster planning takes years of process. The way folks have shaped the whole Knott's rumor - they make it sound like Cedar Fair pulled the entire layout as is straight from Knott's and randomly crammed it into CW. Rest assured, even if Leviathan was indeed destined for Knott's, consideration was given that the footprint would be appropriate.
What's more - how different can a B&M Hyper/Giga be? They go out, they come back, and they have airtime hills. There are only so many combinations, and frankly can't imagine a truly "different" experience between proposing a B&M Giga at Knott's nor CW. They would be 300 ft. tall airtime machines, with layouts similar to every other B&M Hyper we have seen. Except Raging Bull. That's kinda crap.
On Kings Island - at this point in the process, those in the know are Cedar Fair Planning and Design (e.g. Rob Decker), KI Planning and Design, necessary financial folks, and Matt Ouimet. Outside of that, you don't need anyone else in on the process, not even necessarily Don Helbig, KI's marketing manager. You would be very surprised how little even marketing and PR departments know about amusement park plans, even when it is their very job to promote for new attractions.
I'd like to envision an announcement towards the end of the summer, late July/early August. Kings Island had begun footer construction and even had B&M track on-site when they announced Diamondback back in 2008 (on August 8th). Sooner or later, Kings Island will spill the beans - a relocation of Cedar Point's old Pirate Ride.
Jarrett
Most Obnoxious Member 2016
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster
Leaving KI right now. The construction site seemed active and they were working on a second triangular footer and had hung "No Camping" signs on nearby trees. Pics later. I spoke to employees about it and while I know it's virtually worthless due to how sketchy ride ops and merchants are, I heard all sorts of things, some of which were wing coaster. I did get photos of them pouring a second triangular footer, also. And I was told it would be called Banshee.
Leaving KI right now. The construction site seemed active and they were working on a second triangular footer and had hung "No Camping" signs on nearby trees. Pics later. I spoke to employees about it and while I know it's virtually worthless due to how sketchy ride ops and merchants are, I heard all sorts of things, some of which were wing coaster. I did get photos of them pouring a second triangular footer, also. And I was told it would be called Banshee.