Goodbye Superbowl (PBB)
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Scott88
Hyper Poster
If you look back at the history of the Pleasure Beach, you will see that throughout their very long history, that it is nothing new for them to have a long distance between two new attractions, its nothing new to how the park was run 50 years ago and further back.
New rides, yeah towers needs them, because why else would people treck to the middle of no where in Staffordshire? They wouldnt.
Blackpool, totally different ball game, people will visit the Pleasure Beach, because they spend the day in Blackpool, or a weekend, or a week, and they visit the Resort, which will always include a trip to PBB, regardless of what is new, second hand, or regardless of nothing being built.
New rides, yeah towers needs them, because why else would people treck to the middle of no where in Staffordshire? They wouldnt.
Blackpool, totally different ball game, people will visit the Pleasure Beach, because they spend the day in Blackpool, or a weekend, or a week, and they visit the Resort, which will always include a trip to PBB, regardless of what is new, second hand, or regardless of nothing being built.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Every now and then some goon crawls out of the woodwork to remind me why I make about 2 posts a year on this site (usually its some Pratt under the name coaster king with some rather fictitious TR about PBB…funny that, most of the morons on here some to hold something against that place!)
To start with, someone some post back suggested the RollerCoaster had been spoiled by the HSE??? Something I don’t understand myself and would ask that person (if I could be bothered to go back and seek there name) to illiterate on, as it would appear some demonic act has been carried out by the HSE without me noticing, despite it being my most ridden attraction in 2009 (by several hundred rides)
Moving on.
Martyn B, I work in retail, I have no idea where you work, or if indeed you hold down a job (for all I know you may be a sweaty student who refuses to wash, hold down a job and eats pot noodles daily whiles sponging of society) but I’m sure (if you do attend work regularly) you wouldn’t take kindly to being photographed by every Tom, Dick or Harry while going about your job. It’s worth remembering that PBB is closed, meaning public access should be zero. May I suggest if you’re to interested in what’s going on over there (which I doubt you are) you bugger off over and take a look, failing that accept what’s being said to you, and shut your bleeding trap.
Ollie, have you visited PBB? In what way does it suck? Again, a nonsense statement made by a buffoon who doesn’t understand the massive amount of work AjT found herself facing in 2004. Anyone with anything except fresh air between there ears will see she’s done really well at improving the park and sustaining its future. Maybe that’s a bit too hard for you to understand…I don’t know?
Ben, you can knock Infusion all you like, I tried it and I’ve exhausted it. The fact remains that from marketing POV it’s better than the Log Flume, so the public love it. No matter how good or bad a ride is, if its marketed correctly it will work for a period of time, and plenty of rides have proved that over the years.
Also, just because a ride is new, doesn’t mean its any good, as I said it’s all in the marketing.
It seems to me that some people on here seem to want PBB to fail, why I don’t know, but that’s the impression I get. What does confuse me is this football style approach we seem to have in the UK to our parks. I’ve stopped posting Alton TR’s on PBB sites and I’ve almost completely come off all Alton/’neutral’ sites as 95% of members (infact all but me and Scott!) seem intent on slating PBB at every opportunity and for no real reason, Coaster Kings TR’s and the absolute crap posted in this topic alone being an example.
Ash
To start with, someone some post back suggested the RollerCoaster had been spoiled by the HSE??? Something I don’t understand myself and would ask that person (if I could be bothered to go back and seek there name) to illiterate on, as it would appear some demonic act has been carried out by the HSE without me noticing, despite it being my most ridden attraction in 2009 (by several hundred rides)
Moving on.
Martyn B, I work in retail, I have no idea where you work, or if indeed you hold down a job (for all I know you may be a sweaty student who refuses to wash, hold down a job and eats pot noodles daily whiles sponging of society) but I’m sure (if you do attend work regularly) you wouldn’t take kindly to being photographed by every Tom, Dick or Harry while going about your job. It’s worth remembering that PBB is closed, meaning public access should be zero. May I suggest if you’re to interested in what’s going on over there (which I doubt you are) you bugger off over and take a look, failing that accept what’s being said to you, and shut your bleeding trap.
Ollie, have you visited PBB? In what way does it suck? Again, a nonsense statement made by a buffoon who doesn’t understand the massive amount of work AjT found herself facing in 2004. Anyone with anything except fresh air between there ears will see she’s done really well at improving the park and sustaining its future. Maybe that’s a bit too hard for you to understand…I don’t know?
Ben, you can knock Infusion all you like, I tried it and I’ve exhausted it. The fact remains that from marketing POV it’s better than the Log Flume, so the public love it. No matter how good or bad a ride is, if its marketed correctly it will work for a period of time, and plenty of rides have proved that over the years.
Also, just because a ride is new, doesn’t mean its any good, as I said it’s all in the marketing.
It seems to me that some people on here seem to want PBB to fail, why I don’t know, but that’s the impression I get. What does confuse me is this football style approach we seem to have in the UK to our parks. I’ve stopped posting Alton TR’s on PBB sites and I’ve almost completely come off all Alton/’neutral’ sites as 95% of members (infact all but me and Scott!) seem intent on slating PBB at every opportunity and for no real reason, Coaster Kings TR’s and the absolute crap posted in this topic alone being an example.
Ash
Ash said:
You're right, but you can be polite about it? MartynB wasn't being unpleasant about it or nasty - just inquiring. There's absolutely no need to be so rude to him - especially as he's a person I've known to support the pleasure beach in the past.
Ash said:
There are two ways of looking at this. First up, if the only people who seem to agree with the fact PBB is doing a good job are people who are self confessed fan of the park - then perhaps the 95% of other people are onto the right track? Maybe being too close had blinded you a little?
Secondly (which is true for me) is the fact that Blackpool were once one (well, actually where for quite a long time) of the leading amusement parks in the country.
Something, somewhere, has gone wrong. Whether it's the fault of GT or Amanda, it's pretty irrelevant. The fact is, that until around the turn of the century, Blackpool was playing with the big boys in terms of investment, expansion, etc. We've seen both Alton and Thorpe really rise rapidly in the last ten years.
At Blackpool, we've seen nothing but closures and relocations. Now, I understand that there's not a massive investment company backing PBB, so money is tighter. However, if your business has to shrink to stay afloat, then you're in dire straights. Especially if that business is sitting with a captive audience. To be losing money, something somewhere is going wrong.
The solution? Well, to be honest, if your pockets aren't deep enough to keep your business expanding - you need to get somebody else in with deeper pockets. It's all well and good fighting tooth and claw to keep the business privately owned, but you shouldn't do it if it means ripping apart that thing and losing it.
For me, I feel sad about PBB. It's still the same place it was last year, and the year before, and right back. That's why people are negative, it's not stagnated, it's receding. While the other "big" parks in the country (the world for that matter - and note I said big parks) are innovating, expanding and competing - PBB just isn't doing any of the things needed for an amusement park.
You and Scott are going against each other here and contradicting too. Scott says they don't need to expand and change, as they have a captive audience. Ash, you're saying it's because they don't have the money. The reason people make the effort to go to Alton specifically is for the rides. This earns them a lot of money. If Blackpool aren't earning money due to the passing trade (ie, they're sitting back, resting on their laurels and waiting for the cash to be milked by holidaymakers) - then they need to be getting the people coming purely for the Pleasure Beach. That won't happen with a new fountain, garden and oyster bar. They're things you need to make a visitors stay more pleasant, but they're not going to make people travel there specifically.
So, if they can't invest, they keep on doing nothing and keep the passing trade. If they do nothing, then expect "enthusiasts" to bitch and complain that the place has become dull, tired and not worth visiting.
It's no derision towards the current rides really (there are still a fair few there I, and most people, love) - it's purely that with nothing new - it's no longer a place that anyone considers a place worth considering as a "competitor" in the UK amusement industry. If that's where they're forced to be, or have chosen to be - fine. However, expect people to state that and be derisive of the management of the place (where ever the blame lies) which has left them in that situation.
Probably not my place to say this.
Since when were people not allowed freedom of speach? Sorry not everyone loves the place Ash.
Ash I was going to the place before you were even born, just like Furie I have seen the park go down hill and over the past few years this trend has got faster.
I am sorry I do not agree with your views on the place but open your eyes and look at it from 10 years ago to now.
Sorry Furie but I had to have my say as well as that post is just so rude and has really pissed me off.
Since when were people not allowed freedom of speach? Sorry not everyone loves the place Ash.
Ash I was going to the place before you were even born, just like Furie I have seen the park go down hill and over the past few years this trend has got faster.
I am sorry I do not agree with your views on the place but open your eyes and look at it from 10 years ago to now.
Sorry Furie but I had to have my say as well as that post is just so rude and has really pissed me off.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
Furie said:
Blinded by what? Everytime a debate like this rises, anyone who is siding with the Pleasure Beach, is straight away classed as a blind fanboy, to some people on its a crime to like the Pleasure Beach.
I dont know what you think is the 'right track', but slating the park and moaning about every decision, is more ignorant than anything and a lack of respect to the current owners. As Ash stated, Amanda took over the park in 2004 in a shock situation, its not every day you wake up expecting your dad to pass away and to be suddenly given control of one the biggest amusement parks out there. As soon as Geoffrey passed away, the banks came down hard on the Pleasure Beach, nobody has given Amanda a chance, but she has come out fighting and is doing a great job.
I was gutted when the Log Flume went, most Pleasure Beach fans were, but they had a choice, an SBNO Log Flume, or a ride they could pass off as new? Makes sence to go with the replacement ride option to me, because no doubt if the Log Flume had been removed and not replaced, everyone would have been saying 'Why dont they put Traumatizer in at PBB'?
Like I said a few posts back, those who know very little about the park, take no interest in how the place is doing, they look for any little chance to slag off the Pleasure Beach and will take so much pleasure from it, but why? Why do this? What do you guys gain from Pleasure Beach removing a ride or closing something?
Amanda is doing her best to run the Pleasure Beach to its maximum and give guests a great day out, and this is not easy in the middle of a very deep reccesion.
And finally, I did not see anything offensive about Ash's student remark, I am a student and have been for 4 years now, its what most people think of students anyway.
Ollie
CF Legend
Ash said:
I've been there several times. She's done nothing to improve the park. Rides are closing. Maintenance is sh1t. All she cares about is the bloody shows. She spent millions to make a fountain. A ****ING FOUNTAIN!
The quality of the park has dropped dramatically ever since she took over and the place just feels dirty. She ruined Southport and now she's doing the Same to Blackpool. It can only get worse with the extra charge they've put just to walk round the park. They haven't added anything decent since Infusion which was just a crappy SLC repainted so people think it's new.
I'm not even going to get into an argument as you're clearly one sided and are offensive to anyone who says something that's the opposite to what you think.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
marc said:
Who is causing trouble? Nobody. Replying to the tripe some people are coming out with more like.
Ollie said:
Several times? Judging from your assesment you are talking about a different place.
Maintenence, whats wrong with it? The rides wouldnt be open if they were unsafe.
All Amanda cares about is shows? Hmm, I believe in 2009, Pleasure Beach cancelled its two main shows. :roll:
It was hardly millions on just a fountain, it was the whole area.
Ollie said:
WTF? How is it dirty? The place is alot cleaner and alot more presentable than a few years ago, even the biggest PBB critic should be able to see that! If not, a trip to Specsavers is vital.
And how is the charge made it worse? It was busier last season than it was the two previous years when the park was free entry.
Ollie, you clearly have no idea.
Scott, there is replying and there is REPLYING and Ash was rude simple.
His type of post might be ok on the Blackpool site (can not remember the name or even if it's still going), but as you can see its not ok here.
He could have been polite in his post, but nope he had to offend and be rude.
You dont seem to agree so just leave it. I was offended, Ollie was and Furie was. You might be used to being spoken to like a pile of **** but we are not. Simples.
if you want to carry it on PM me.
His type of post might be ok on the Blackpool site (can not remember the name or even if it's still going), but as you can see its not ok here.
He could have been polite in his post, but nope he had to offend and be rude.
You dont seem to agree so just leave it. I was offended, Ollie was and Furie was. You might be used to being spoken to like a pile of **** but we are not. Simples.
if you want to carry it on PM me.
If every person on all "neutral coaster enthusiast" sites are slating the place apart from 2 people (which I'm quite sure they aren't anyway, but you seem to have it in your head that they are... I for one really like Grand National, Roller Coaster and Big Dipper, and am all for preserving one of the last wooden wild mouses and steeple chases in the world), then surely, from this evidence alone, there is something wrong with the place that is really annoying the vast majority of people?
How you, Scott, or anyone else can deny this is well beyond me, but one of you are now, typically and highly annoyingly, guaranteed to create a 10 paragraph report on why you are right and the vast majority of people are wrong.
Great.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
Mike said:
Might have something to do with the fact most people on this site are anti-Pleasure Beach and love to kick the park while its down. Any given chance and the place is slated, but there is no reasonable explaination to why this happens.
Marc, if you dont like Ash's post, dont read it. I've seen far more obnixous posts on here from other members and nobody has been bothered.
How can I not read it, its there.
People here are not anti pleasure beach at all, I know I am not. But you guys actually make me want to hate it. I have been going to the park before you were even an egg.
People just point out what is wrong and what they would like.
You guys then come on and defend the place to the death and insult people. Does it make you feel better or something?
Other people might post bad posts, but they post more than twice a year. Ash has posted to insult people and thats his reason. Defend him all you like I do not really care.
I have never in my years seen a post like what Ash has done. And how dare you tell me what to read and what not to read, how would I lnow it was bad until I read it! As far as I am concerned he sould not be allowed to post, but that is not up to me. Complete and utter idiots no wonder you hardly had any memebers on your site and one that did not agree with you were banned.
Why did you defend him anyway? Why does he not come back on to finish what he started?
I am going before I say something I really regret.
People here are not anti pleasure beach at all, I know I am not. But you guys actually make me want to hate it. I have been going to the park before you were even an egg.
People just point out what is wrong and what they would like.
You guys then come on and defend the place to the death and insult people. Does it make you feel better or something?
Other people might post bad posts, but they post more than twice a year. Ash has posted to insult people and thats his reason. Defend him all you like I do not really care.
I have never in my years seen a post like what Ash has done. And how dare you tell me what to read and what not to read, how would I lnow it was bad until I read it! As far as I am concerned he sould not be allowed to post, but that is not up to me. Complete and utter idiots no wonder you hardly had any memebers on your site and one that did not agree with you were banned.
Why did you defend him anyway? Why does he not come back on to finish what he started?
I am going before I say something I really regret.
Scott88 said:
This is why I made the second point. The one you seem to have ignored where I gave my reasons for why I believe all these other people have a different view to you and Ash.
It didn't knock the park, or the management in any personal kind of way.
I simply pointed out that for the park to not be investing and thriving in an environment where all of their competitors are thriving and investing (by competitors I mean the bigger parks like Alton, Thorpe, Drayton and Flamingoland). Even in this "deep recession"
This means there is something wrong somewhere which needs addressing.
If the park has not got enough money, then it needs to find a way of getting investment so it can compete.
If it has enough money, it should be investing so it can compete.
As a business, sitting and doing nothing but relying on a dwindling passing trade does not make sense.
It doesn't matter if GT screwed up the Pleasure Beach finances and left a shocked, poor defenceless Mandy to clean up the mess. It's not being cleaned up. Six seasons on and there's just a string of closures under her belt. It means there is a problem. It needs a solution, but new fountains, oyster bars and gardens are not the solution. They're the bits you do at the same time you're making major investments.
The Pleasure Beach may be running the same way it ran 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, or 20 years ago, or 10 years ago. That's surely what caused the problems which have led to the closure of Southport and the removal of rides. The rest of the industry is not operating how it used to (much to the complaint of people on here about how Alton is not a patch on what it used to be, for instance). That change in operation is a sign of recognising an issue and working a way around it.
I don't slate the park, except for the fact it's ground to a halt. I have always tried to keep an open mind about the place I used to love. It's still the same place, and this is the issue. The world (and me) have moved on and PBB is still doing the same things.
I don't disagree with all the decisions (personally I disagree with the paid entry, but I said at the time, we don't have enough details of accounts to actually work out if it would be better for the park or not and said so openly), I think improvements must be made. It's just it's not moving far enough in the right direction.
Amanda may be "doing her best for guests", but she should be doing her best for the business, which is getting more people in through the gates and showing off the other changes she's made to the park.
I don't know enough to comment on dirt, maintenance, etc, etc. So I don't. I just look and see that in the last decade, we've seen at least half a dozen new concept, high profile rides built in the UK and not a single one of them has been at Blackpool.
It doesn't matter why they haven't been built there, it simply matters that they haven't been built there.
So people immediately have a bad feeling towards PBB. They feel it's out of touch with what the rest of the industry is doing. They feel it's not offering anything new and has stagnated.
Once people are looking negatively on a park, then it soon follows they look closer at the other things (like dirt, etc) and bring it to the for (let's face it, Drayton gets a similar bad press - but if they'd built a Mega-Lite there last year, I'll bet everyone would have missed out looking for the bad staff, poor maintenance etc).
Anyway, I agree that Blackpool does get a lot more negative press on the "nitty gritty" than it probably deserves. However, it all boils down to the fact there's something fundamentally going wrong in the park.
People are frustrated by this and it comes across strongly...
People don't just hate Blackpool for the sake of it. There is a reason...
Scott88 said:
If a strange bloke came into your college common room and shouted "you're all sponging off the taxes I pay and you dirty, smelly and disgusting" - are you saying you wouldn't be offended?
The remark came from nowhere, had no relevance to the point being made and insulted a group of people Ash doesn't know, and who don't know Ash. It's offensive and insulting, plain and simple.
A bit of banter between members who know each other is fine, but not a straight, angry insult to people who are unknown to people they have no history of familiarity with.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
marc said:
Before replying to Furie, I'll reply to this load of old tosh.
Maybe you were offended by Ash, but I havent insulted anyone and did not intend to offend anyone. I am simply giving my opinion on the Pleasure Beach and making it quite clear that these biased views against the park, are an unfair assesment.
Say something you regret through PM for all I care, am not bothered Marc, if you are getting so worked up over people posting on a forum then maybe its time for you to stay away from forums, because believe it or not everyone does not have the same opinion on everything!
Marc, you might have been visiting PBB for a longer time than me and Ash, but that does not make you have more of a right than us to cast an opinion. Thats like saying a 16 year old Man United fan isnt allowed an opinion on the team and the performance because older people have supported them for a longer amount of time, never seen so much rubbish.
I am not going to reply to all of your post Furie, but I will reply to what I feel I can reply to;
Furie said:
And how long did Alton Towers go before investing in a new coaster? A few years at least, in that time Pleasure Beach opened a new ride. Second hand/relocated/whatever, it was still new to Pleasure Beach. Towers went between 2005 and this year without a new coaster, I dont see anyone moaning about that? But that doesnt surprise me, because towers can do no wrong with most 'neutral' enthusiasts.
Furie said:
Maybe nothing needs addressing? Why does everyone outside of the PBB fan community have this crazed obsession that Pleasure Beach must add a new ride every year. Lets break it down into this;
1. What new rides can they build without removing more rides? Remove more rides and people moan again.
2. Pleasure Beach had a very busy year in 2009, and built no new rides, had a bigger list of SBNO rides than the year before it, and added a new fountain area. That alone should show that PBB doesnt need new rides year after year.
3. What is the point in throwing money at new attractions in a reccesion when success is not certain and it could backfire.
Pleasure Beach have never been a park that puts in new rides every year, anyone who has followed the parks progress over time should know that. Why change the way of thinking now?
No new rides last year, or the year before, and the park didnt suffer.
Furie said:
I doubt that. Regardless of what they do, or dont do, they will always have people moaning and groaning about the Pleasure Beach for the sake of it.
Snipped - take it to PM please Marc - Furie
Big Dipper crashed, oh its the ride ops fault no mention the track broke and that caused the problem in the 1st place. So infact Ollie was right.
AI have probably invested more money in the past 3 years than Blackpool have.
I am getting worked up due to the fact I loved the park always went there as kid and always looked forward to going back. Now I just do not want to go back as it spoils memories I have. But sorry I forgot again that the park is better now, stupid me.
Big Dipper crashed, oh its the ride ops fault no mention the track broke and that caused the problem in the 1st place. So infact Ollie was right.
AI have probably invested more money in the past 3 years than Blackpool have.
I am getting worked up due to the fact I loved the park always went there as kid and always looked forward to going back. Now I just do not want to go back as it spoils memories I have. But sorry I forgot again that the park is better now, stupid me.
Lots of people moan about Alton not adding new rides. Including you'll find Marc and Ian have a real bitch about it (Marc won't come to Alton due to their lack of decent additions and "family" attitude). You need to read a little more...
However, they may not have added major coasters, but they added "attractions". Whether they're good or not is a matter of opinion mind.
The thing is, year on year the gate numbers at Blackpool are down and down - this means the park IS suffering. It may look busier, but I'm still waiting to see the final results for last year's performance. Lower gate figures means less cash, and the need to do things like drop expensive shows which massively drain the budget.
Can you not see Scott, that busy or not, PBB are struggling for cash, and have been for several years?
This is why there is no investment. Keeping on going and hoping for passing trade is just a management equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.
I always said Infusion was a great move for the park, and it certainly helped - but it didn't have the impact needed. It just didn't go a step far enough, it needed a positive public follow up - and a fountain and a much derided pay per entry didn't cut the mustard.
Tell you what Scott, we'll leave it at this for now. I don't have gate figures for 2009 or any idea of how well they actually did. I'm basing this on older data - so let's leave it and see how well their gate figures do against the other parks in the UK this year when the results are published.
If they're higher than Alton and Thrope, then fine - I'll admit that PBB are doing well, and their business model must be effective.
Okay?
However, they may not have added major coasters, but they added "attractions". Whether they're good or not is a matter of opinion mind.
The thing is, year on year the gate numbers at Blackpool are down and down - this means the park IS suffering. It may look busier, but I'm still waiting to see the final results for last year's performance. Lower gate figures means less cash, and the need to do things like drop expensive shows which massively drain the budget.
Can you not see Scott, that busy or not, PBB are struggling for cash, and have been for several years?
This is why there is no investment. Keeping on going and hoping for passing trade is just a management equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.
I always said Infusion was a great move for the park, and it certainly helped - but it didn't have the impact needed. It just didn't go a step far enough, it needed a positive public follow up - and a fountain and a much derided pay per entry didn't cut the mustard.
Tell you what Scott, we'll leave it at this for now. I don't have gate figures for 2009 or any idea of how well they actually did. I'm basing this on older data - so let's leave it and see how well their gate figures do against the other parks in the UK this year when the results are published.
If they're higher than Alton and Thrope, then fine - I'll admit that PBB are doing well, and their business model must be effective.
Okay?
Scott88
Hyper Poster
marc said:
Calm down for goodness sake. :lol:
I am not saying I am right, but I am not giving in on what my opinions are and I've spoken to enough people at Pleasure Beach over the last few years to know how the park is on a steady improvement and is getting better each year. Some people will refuse to ever accept the Pleasure Beach is doing well because they want to see it fail for some sad reason.
Marc you know as well as I do, if Pleasure Beach announced tommorow that they were building a new ride in 2011 and it was going to be tallest in european for example, no doubt people would come out and slate it, saying it'll be crap, saying it'll be boring and putting it down as well as putting down PBB.
Big Dipper crashed, yeah it did. RMT crashed, does that make towers unsafe and the park have bad maintenence? Does it b*llocks.
Furie, didnt see your post at first, we posted at same time. Yeah I know PB have struggled with money in the last few years, hence the lack of new rides, but even so, I doubt they'd be building rides every year or two if they had as much money as towers and Thorpe.
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