Dollywood | Lightning Rod | Launched RMC

[Jarrett]

There is clearly a reason they went who they went with. You may second guess it but clearly they had the knowledge to convince them to go with them for this project. Advanced technology is a work in process.

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I completely understand that. I guess what I don't get is why they didn't, though. Like, to me, if the choices are a company that has been doing this for years and has worked with you before or another company that has never attempted something like this, who do you go with? I know they had a reason, I'm just wondering what the reason was.

What did RMC and Dollywood see in Velocity Magnetics that I don't?

 

[tomahawk]

Negotiations and the inner workings of a deal?

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[Lofty]

Negotiations and the inner workings of a deal?

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THIS.

Jarrett, with all due respect - there's a lot about coasters you (and most of us) don't know. I don't mean technologically, I'm speaking the deals, money transfers and business side of it. Velocity may have pitched really well and have some fantastic product that they had to offer Dollywood and RMC (although a lot of the time the client has no intentions of governing which second party contractor the main contractor utilises). Their product may be more economic, lower running costs and cost less initially, hence why RMC chose them.

The fact of reality is, we don't know and more than likely will never know as this type of information is strongly guarded, usually.

 

[jay37415]

If I'm correct, the subcontractor that Dollywood and RMC pointed fingers at (rightfully so) was Velocity, not Irvine Ondrey.

Still think they should've just gone to Vekoma instead. Vekoma makes their truss lifts (Goliath and Wildfire) and they've been kicking out working launches for years.

I stand corrected. I guess I got confused as to who was doing what.

 

[Jarrett]

Negotiations and the inner workings of a deal?

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THIS.

Jarrett, with all due respect - there's a lot about coasters you (and most of us) don't know. I don't mean technologically, I'm speaking the deals, money transfers and business side of it. Velocity may have pitched really well and have some fantastic product that they had to offer Dollywood and RMC (although a lot of the time the client has no intentions of governing which second party contractor the main contractor utilises). Their product may be more economic, lower running costs and cost less initially, hence why RMC chose them.

The fact of reality is, we don't know and more than likely will never know as this type of information is strongly guarded, usually.

I guess what I want to know is what was so special about Velocity's pitch. Sure it might have been cheap, but how much of a steal really was it for them to pick them over Vekoma? Like you said, there obviously had to be some attraction to it. Alan (who we can probably all agree is a fantastic engineer) seemed really excited over it in the video I'm talking about.

I know exactly how these pitched are analyzed, we did it in one of my classes. I took this tech comm class in 2014 and one of the things we had to write was an analysis of different solutions to a problem. We had to identify the problem (in this case it would be the coaster needing a launch system), identify the different solutions (Vekoma, Velocity, that weight drop Alan was talking about), use numbers and figures to tell what the cost and risk and benefits and the like of each was, and make a decision in the end based on what we analyzed and logically decided as engineers.

What I want is to read that document. An engineer had a reason for making this decision, be it cost or reliability or a hookup at DreamMore Resort. Why? That's what intrigues me.

 

[Ben]

Hey guys, Jarrett knows how businesses work, he had a class on it once.

You're not going to know why they made the decision, just know that a load of engineers who are smarter than you chose it for a reason.

Whether or not that has worked out now is another question.

 

[Jarrett]

Hey guys, Jarrett knows how businesses work, he had a class on it once.

You're not going to know why they made the decision, just know that a load of engineers who are smarter than you chose it for a reason.

Whether or not that has worked out now is another question.

This seems to be one of those times when people pick and choose which parts of my post they read, so I'll just restate what I've said for the third **** time...

I know they chose it for a reason. I'm just curious as to what that reason is.

I never claimed to know fully how business works, I just said I had a taste of the process behind making it. And from what I know, the possibility of this system malfunctioning like it has been doing and delaying the ride opening two months, or something along the lines of it, was probably taken into account if they had any suspicion at all it could happen. However, for some other reason, such as installation/running cost as Lofty mentioned, they had to go with it for a reason. What this makes me wonder is how this system will fare in the future. Could this have been a case of, "it'll need time to break in but once it does it's indestructible?" Could Velocity make magnets again in the future that break in just as quickly as the rest but go down less?

There was probably a benefit that outweighed this risk somewhere in the proposal and that's what I'm curious about. It could be something we don't care about like cost, but it could also be something we do. Better ride experience, less long term down time (they even said it had zero moving parts), opportunities for a loyal future business partner, or other possibilities. What I'm saying is that the long process of getting this launch going is what has me curious as to see what the future for this kind of system could be, both on LR and on other coasters.

I don't see how we've become so immature on CF that we can't even have a polite discussion about roller coasters and share our points and opinions without being called out or talked down to. It's **** ridiculous as of lately to be honest.

 

[tomahawk]

Jarrett, when a company offers a superior product, that is what causes the purchase to be made. You have absolutely zero idea of the inner workings of this deal and negotiations. Vekoma may have not even offered their service, or the product wouldn't have worked how it was designed. There are infinite possibilities of why they did what they did and you will never know why, none of us will. Stop acting like you know what's best. Innovation has to happen and using new companies causes that to happen.

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

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[Error]

I don't see how we've become so immature on CF that we can't even have a polite discussion about roller coasters and share our points and opinions without being called out or talked down to. It's **** ridiculous as of lately to be honest.

It's been that way for years. You're not special.

 

[Jarrett]

Jarrett, when a company offers a superior product, that is what causes the purchase to be made. You have absolutely zero idea of the inner workings of this deal and negotiations. Vekoma may have not even offered their service, or the product wouldn't have worked how it was designed. There are infinite possibilities of why they did what they did and you will never know why, none of us will. Stop acting like you know what's best. Innovation has to happen and using new companies causes that to happen.

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

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Honestly, I'm not. I was peeved when I found out but we diverted our trip to SDC and rode Outlaw instead and I had a blast. The goal of that trip was for me to get my first RMC and while it took a bit of string pulling, I made it happen. Not butthurt at all.

I know there are infinite possibilities, which is why it intrigues me so much. To think that this company that never did a launch was able to do something that Vekoma has been doing for years makes me curious. Both as someone who likes to know how rides work and as someone who likes to ride them. Never once did I say I knew better, not once. Trust me, I know RMC knows what they're doing. Anybody who's ridden one of their rides probably knows too.

Again, no need to be a jerk, just politely explaining and discussing would have sufficed. But instead you decide to get all nasty and call me out and it's **** rude.

 

[Youngster Joey]

Jarrett, when a company offers a superior product, that is what causes the purchase to be made. You have absolutely zero idea of the inner workings of this deal and negotiations. Vekoma may have not even offered their service, or the product wouldn't have worked how it was designed. There are infinite possibilities of why they did what they did and you will never know why, none of us will. Stop acting like you know what's best. Innovation has to happen and using new companies causes that to happen.

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

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Honestly, I'm not. I was peeved when I found out but we diverted our trip to SDC and rode Outlaw instead and I had a blast. The goal of that trip was for me to get my first RMC and while it took a bit of string pulling, I made it happen. Not butthurt at all.

I know there are infinite possibilities, which is why it intrigues me so much. To think that this company that never did a launch was able to do something that Vekoma has been doing for years makes me curious. Both as someone who likes to know how rides work and as someone who likes to ride them. Never once did I say I knew better, not once. Trust me, I know RMC knows what they're doing. Anybody who's ridden one of their rides probably knows too.

Again, no need to be a jerk, just politely explaining and discussing would have sufficed. But instead you decide to get all nasty and call me out and it's **** rude.

I think the point that's trying to be made is yes we all wonder why they chose the company they did, but We're never going to know so there's really no point in continually harping on it.


On Topic: I just hope this thing opens before the US live in a few weeks

 

[tomahawk]

Jarrett, when a company offers a superior product, that is what causes the purchase to be made. You have absolutely zero idea of the inner workings of this deal and negotiations. Vekoma may have not even offered their service, or the product wouldn't have worked how it was designed. There are infinite possibilities of why they did what they did and you will never know why, none of us will. Stop acting like you know what's best. Innovation has to happen and using new companies causes that to happen.

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

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Honestly, I'm not. I was peeved when I found out but we diverted our trip to SDC and rode Outlaw instead and I had a blast. The goal of that trip was for me to get my first RMC and while it took a bit of string pulling, I made it happen. Not butthurt at all.

I know there are infinite possibilities, which is why it intrigues me so much. To think that this company that never did a launch was able to do something that Vekoma has been doing for years makes me curious. Both as someone who likes to know how rides work and as someone who likes to ride them. Never once did I say I knew better, not once. Trust me, I know RMC knows what they're doing. Anybody who's ridden one of their rides probably knows too.

Again, no need to be a jerk, just politely explaining and discussing would have sufficed. But instead you decide to get all nasty and call me out and it's **** rude.

Why not Intamin? Premier? B&M? Mack? Any other company that does a launch. Just because Vekoma is their partner for Wildfire doesn't mean they will do their launches. That's what you seem to not understand. Gerstlauer used to be their train provider, but that ended poorly as we all know.



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[GuyWithAStick]

^Vekoma is their European business partner, and manufactures their steel lifts. It's a lot more than just Wildfire.

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[smecn]

Just wondering, what LSM launches has Vekoma manufactured lately? The only ones I can think of are Rockin Rollercoaster and Xpress. I know these are older, but I am having a hard time thinking of a Vekoma LSM/LIM at all

 

[tomahawk]

^Vekoma is their European business partner, and manufactures their steel lifts. It's a lot more than just Wildfire.

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Considering their only project (that is actively being built) in Europe is Wildfire, that is why I singled it out.

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[Dar]

Just wondering, what LSM launches has Vekoma manufactured lately? The only ones I can think of are Rockin Rollercoaster and Xpress. I know these are older, but I am having a hard time thinking of a Vekoma LSM/LIM at all

I thought they got their launches from Intrasys? I thought everyone got them from there?

 

[ST Dog]

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

Butthurt has nothing to do with it.

It's interest in the engineering and business decisions.

Maybe you're not an engineer and don't get it. Most of us (engineers) want to know and understand things at a level of detail normal people don't get.

 

[jay37415]

Easy now peeps... lets be civilized here. If I wanted to read a Dollywood thread with people bickering. I would have joined a fan site run by a guy named Rob. *mic drop

But in all seriousness, I'd like to know where Screamscape got his info about LR at. The banner across the Dollywood website hasn't changed from the testing message. I'm just wondering if they are not testing due to the holiday weekend. PLC programmers need a day off too. I'm just glad I got to ride it when I did.

Now to throw in my opinion about hwy RMC didn't go with Intamin for the launch system. IMHO.. it would make sense to try and design / build a system without having to use a competitor. If RMC wants to go deeper in the launch coaster market they need to develop their own system. Imagine if X amusement Park starts taking bids and coaster designs to have a launch coaster built at their park. Intamin could easily point the finger and say,"Why use RMC for a launch coaster when we build their launch systems anyhow?" Basically RMC was looking for a way to be competitive without using Intamin. Like I said, this is just my opinion.. and I'm usually wrong. except the part where I said this coaster has some serious AIR time.

 

[Antinos]

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

Butthurt has nothing to do with it.

It's interest in the engineering and business decisions.

Maybe you're not an engineer and don't get it. Most of us (engineers) want to know and understand things at a level of detail normal people don't get.

Let's take it easy with putting engineering on a pedestal and referring to anybody else as 'normal'. As somebody who currently works as a product development engineer, yet still sees business decisions like this every single day, Tom is pretty much spot on (considering how he works at a banking corporation and deals with business decisions similar to this one). Everybody has their niche in society and the cogs don't turn if one profession is marginalized. Engineers are not any better or worse than anybody else - we can apply math and harness various forms of energy in different systems to achieve work, but Tom can out-customer-service me and Snoo can out-marketing me without a doubt.

The physics behind all of these companies' launches is the exact same. Some launches themselves might have identical circuitry in a different package. The number of variables behind business decisions can be astoundingly large. In this case, maybe Velocity's manufacturing is sourced in China and thus their product is super cheap. Maybe Dollywood and/or RMC values ethics and Velocity's manufacturing is sourced in the United States where their assemblers are receiving good wages and benefits. Maybe Velocity uses different, cheaper materials in their product. Maybe Velocity uses recycled materials in their product. Maybe Velocity patented some technology such that their product operates in such a way that it puts less stress on the electrical grid. Maybe Velocity's design was the only feasible design with RMC's trains. Maybe a combination of these reasons could be why they went with Velocity.

The bitching is pointless - soon enough the ride will be permanently open and functioning 100% and nobody will give a **** who supplied the launch system.




And for the record, this sort of bashing and singling out has become the norm since before Jarrett was a member.

 

[Jarrett]

^Meh, I wouldn't say we won't care once it opens entirely. If this is really state of the art and as innovative as the park and RMC are saying, they could be onto something. Schilke said it had no moving parts (which differentiates it from Intamin at least if I'm correct) so if one of the reasons this system was chosen was due to ride experience, downtime, or something else affecting guest experience instead of the park/manufacturer, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of these pop up once RMC and Velocity play with it a bit.

Will it change Lightning Rod's ride experience? No. Could this affect the future of this general magnetic launch concept? Perhaps.