Canada's Wonderland |"Leviathan"| B&M HyperGiga

[Venom2053]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

The point of this whole argument won't be solved until we've all ridden it. I am personally going opening day to ride this thing front row. I don't really care if it's in the wrong park because i live close enough to enjoy on a weekly base.

I agree with Ben's point on it being a step backwards from behemoth in terms of technology, but its height and speed are a step forward for B&M.

But, you can't say it won't be better than Behemoth until you've ridden it. So there is no point in judging the coaster until its finished

 

[Snoo]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Nothing wrong with making assumptions but again, that's all they are. Once you ride this pony you'll know BUT the thing about B&M is that they tend to be the same all around if the layout is related in some way. I suspect this will be a supersized Nitro with less airtime.

So lets hope it doesn't suck like Nitro.


PS: I did say 'tend'.. which obvious leaves outliers.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Who can be bothered to argue?
I just give up.

^How can you think Nitro sucks? Whatever that is another debate.
The exciting thing is that B&M have never gone this high or fast, so im hoping this sort of layout will feel really amazing at these speeds.
Plus with the lift hill, it does seem like it has the same amount of supports as the mega coasters. Behemoth has 6 main supports for the lift hill and drop and from the animation it looks like Leviathan will too. Plus there is no track return under the lift hill (like behemoth, diamondback and intimidator). So I think B&M are trying in small ways to advance their technology.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Okay hold on guys, hold on.

Nitro is dreadful.

Clearly everyone can be bothered to argue since you have been for pages. And that's fine, keep going, it's good for you.

The idea that we haven't ridden it yet and it might ride completely differently is absolutely irrelevant. When a park gets a new ride, one of their main considerations is how will it effect visitor numbers. It is pointless adding a new ride if it doesn't bring in more guests, ultimately that's all you're interested in. There's also the idea of word of mouth spreading the quality and the quality bringing people back, but this is all pointless if you can't get people to come to ride it in the first place.

And this will get people through the gates. It's 300ft, that's the buzzword and that's all it'll take.

What I don't get is how obviously this will destroy behemoth from a marketing perspective. Even if Leviathan is dreadful, it's similarity to Behemoth but size difference will make people prefer Leviathan. The average person is not going to be capable of telling apart the ride experiences. I can guarantee that now.

One thing I will point out is that I think, from a GP perspective, Behemoth and Leviathan are as similar as Magnum and Millenium Force. The only difference is we KNOW for a FACT that because these are both B&M megas, neither will produce decent airtime... But from the point of view of the average visitor, they will look as similar as any park that installs essentially the same ride type just bigger.

So how does Magnum fair with guests? I'm not sure, but I remember queueing too long for it, but longer for Millenium.

Now, CP has insane attendance figures... But so does CW... In fact, it gets more we hear. Perhaps with parks like these, the logic is that to get people to come back you really, really do have to stick your neck out to produce a regional/national record of some kind... And the single best selling marketing trick is scale. Nothing in the coaster world sounds as impressive and sells as well to the public as height.

I honestly do not think a looper would have been of much interest to the vast majority of people who visit CW. Not because they wouldn't enjoy it, but because the marketing wouldn't appeal to them as much as "remember that ride you loved? We built a bigger one!" That's playing it safe.

My concern is what it does for Behemoth. It means that it's life as a marketing tool is cut short years too early and I think that is frankly stupid.

 

[Ben]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

The only difference is we KNOW for a FACT that because these are both B&M megas, neither will produce decent airtime...

OMG, Behemoth is mega awesome.

Nitro is too, but, Behemoth is actually loads better. Try it Joey, it's seriously rated by most people, much more universally than most of the other hypers.

And yeah, it's not dumb getting this in terms of people r stupid, but, in terms of, we've already got one of these so it's rendering our four year old investment null and void, is. Why couldn't they have gone for "TALLEST AND FASTEST FLYING COASTER" or summin'? But, as easy as height is to sell, that's it. It's easy. You do it when your entire marketing team consists of howler monkeys, like CW's apparently does.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Okay hold on guys, hold on.

Nitro is dreadful.

Aghhhhh just make a thread and we can argue there lol. Enough spamming this one.

Everything else you said though I definetly agree with. Leviathan will be in plenty of visitors just because of its huge size and fast speed. Im already in love with it and I havent even ridden it yet

 

[michaellll]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

So pretty much every park from now on should just get hypers and gigas because nothing else is worth it to the GP? That's what I feel like the argument is at this point.

Awesome. Love it.

That's the last thing I'm saying on this topic. I really don't feel as if the topic needs my opinion that badly.

 

[Intricks]

Re: Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

So pretty much every park from now on should just get hypers and gigas because nothing else is worth it to the GP? That's what I feel like the argument is at this point.

Awesome. Love it.

That's the last thing I'm saying on this topic. I really don't feel as if the topic needs my opinion that badly.

^Considering how in todays market, only height, speed, new technology or a new style ride gets all the attention, than that statement seems to run pretty true.

Switching between the hideouts'...

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

So pretty much every park from now on should just get hypers and gigas because nothing else is worth it to the GP? That's what I feel like the argument is at this point.

I think it's only me who's put this forward, and that's not what I was saying at all anyway. My point was that from the perspective of any park with the money and space, going for height is a logical marketing strategy. Height has visual impact, it sounds impressive and it's a really easy way to get an extreme ride. (Even if the intensity is only perceived and not ... real.) It's a LOT easier to build a scary ride if you have height to play with than it is to be creative and actually make a good small coaster. Look at CP... Maverick is amazing, why did it take them so long to step away from height and make something of quality??

OMG, Behemoth is mega awesome.

Nitro is too, but, Behemoth is actually loads better. Try it Joey, it's seriously rated by most people, much more universally than most of the other hypers.

I've done Apollo, Goliath, Intimidator, Diamondback, Nitro and Silver Star. In order of preference, favourite first.

None of them are bad, the first 3 are lovely, but I feel like even the floater air is ... meh, which was my point. I'm not saying Behemoth is crap, I'm just saying that it's clearly forceless and Leviathan will be even more so.

And yeah, it's not dumb getting this in terms of people r stupid, but, in terms of, we've already got one of these so it's rendering our four year old investment null and void, is. Why couldn't they have gone for "TALLEST AND FASTEST FLYING COASTER" or summin'? But, as easy as height is to sell, that's it. It's easy. You do it when your entire marketing team consists of howler monkeys, like CW's apparently does.

They had a choice between giving the regional visitors something new they more than likely haven't done, or a bigger and "better" version of something they love. Maybe market research threw back that the latter option was the better one?

Aghhhhh just make a thread and we can argue there lol. Enough spamming this one.

Heh, you go make a topic and I'll join you.

 

[emery96]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I'm not saying Behemoth is crap, I'm just saying that it's clearly forceless and Leviathan will be even more so.

That's the great thing about Behemoth. It's not forceless. Unlike nearly all B&M mega coasters, Behemoth actually has good air, including ejector. Not only does it have amazing airtime, there have been times I have started to grey out on the bottom of the airtime hills, although that's not very common on Behemoth.

 

[michaellll]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Yeah, I know that's not what you we're saying, and I definitely wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything just so you know.

I simply wanted to exaggerate the point that the only way to attract guests is to build a monster coaster, when we all know that shouldn't be the case.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Oh I see, indeed. Well, It's not the only way, but it's certainly the easiest if you have the space and money.

As for Behemoth being forceful, I am dubious, but I shall reserve judgement! I can't imagine it being much different from all the others.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I find the B&M mega coasters to be forceful in a plenty good way. Sure its not like the intamin ones with crazy airtime, but sometimes just some floater airtime and putting your hands up and really enjoying yourself can be the most fun you have on a roller coaster. Eg. El Toro is OMFG crazy, but on Nitro I just feel like im having so much fun!

I think neither is bad. So The arguments that they are 'forceless' I dont think really make sense. All the B&M hypers reach high speeds too and especially in the front row it feels quite fast!
I think perhaps in comparison to the crazy intamin mega versions (like bizarro and goliath), the B&M Hypers seem forceless, but I would never label them that, and definetly not Leviathan.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Nitro is the most forceful one I've done, but it was coupled with horrible rattle which I found to be uncomfortable to the point of making my heart feel... weird. It was like violent-old-woodie roughness.

Given even Millenium Force is ...forceless, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that a B&M version will be even less so. It lierally just looks like MF with B&M track. I'm not expecting greatness, but I'd love to go to CW next year anyway.

 

[CoasterCrazy]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Here's a little update...

Personally I think this will be perfectly forceful...

 

[Hixee]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Oh, from that angle the lift does look steep. It must have just been the angle of the other picture. Hopefully that means it won't take all day to get to the top of the lift!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^ Looks to me to be less than the Intamins, but still more than what Morgan have so it should be reasonably quick.
Still nice to see another big coaster rise!!

 

[CoasterCrazy]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I actually like steep lift hills...they're more forceful and make you more scared...

 

[Venom2053]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

The brake run looks pretty steep too...and I think the lift hill gets even steeper as it goes up. I can't wait to see this thing dominate the skyline

 

[Hixee]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

and I think the lift hill gets even steeper as it goes up.

I hope you mean it looks like it gets steeper. B&M have never built a ride that has a lift hill that physically gets steeper. I don't think any coaster manufacturer has (except those odd Asian coasters that look like a crappy NoLimits model).

Also, just looked at the layout properly... this ride does so LITTLE! 306ft wasted. I at least wanted an abundance of hills like the smaller versions. Shame.