Canada's Wonderland |"Leviathan"| B&M HyperGiga

[LiveForTheLaunch]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Ben, I agree with everybody that it's in the wrong park but because it's so close to me I can't really complain too much. I'd rather it be placed in the wrong park but be near to me so I can ride it and judge it, then have it be in the wrong park on the other side of America where I can't ride it .

I don't remember Behemoth creating too much hype to be honest, all I remember is "yadda yadda these trains are going to be crap but maybe will make a lot of airtime" for like 600 pages. Leviathan will attract a lot of visitors, and though I'm not saying people will come from across the pond to ride it, people from America and stuff would probably be more apt to go there, as well as the locals who maybe want to renew their passes or whatever.

At any rate, whether people think it's in the wrong park or not I can't complain because I get a chance to ride it and because in the end it is probably a good decision for them since big rides are a gimmick for the public as well.

As for Behemoth's queues, they're not that long anyway to be honest. I've never waited more than 30 minutes for it so I don't think they will go down too much. Fly, Time Warp, and Vortex usually have the longest queues in the park and even with Leviathan I think it will stay that way.

 

[Josh73]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Well said, LFTL.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Maybe its not going into the best option of parks, but I do think Leviathan will be better than Behemoth.
We can all sit here as long as we want and debate about which one will be better, but no one is going to know until opening day. And even then Im sure there will be a couple of annoying people who think the ride isnt good and need to get their heads out of their asses.

So why bother debate about which one will be better, because as of now NO ONE knows.
IMO, Leviathan is an improvement upon Behemoth. I think it will be better, different and more unique. Obviously this *could* turn out as a load of crap, but people arent listening to what im trying to say about adding another looping coaster.

Yes, a B&M floorless or looper would be great. But that is improving upon rides they already have. And IN MY OPINION (dont bite my dam head off) that is what Leviathan is doing anyways!
I would rather they fix up the loopers they already have, try and make the rides more comfortable, rather than adding another better looping coaster.
And SERIOUSLY, it seems like the general opinion here is that with Leviathan its the last coaster CW is ever going to add. Its a huge park and they will find ways to constantly add more. Just be happy about this ride, and perhaps the next roller coaster they will put in will be some sort of B&M Flyer .....

I think that would be GREAT!
BUT....right now I think the park should focus on improving the condition of the already existing 5 loopers they have, instead of having a sixth looping coaster and 5 other ones that really arent so great.

 

[michaellll]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

This is a...um...what's that one thing......

Oh yeah. A forum. Where people discuss those things called.....opinions.

Leviathan literally does less. It will have a great first drop and a damn nice hammerhead. That's about it.

:|

They don't have a good modern looper. They have a good modern airtime machine. This is ridiculous.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^ Ive made it quite clear that I was just voicing my opinion and that of course, other people are entitled to the opinion that Behemoth will be better and that that is a possibility. Do I have to spell everything in CAPS or something?
But they have 1 good airtime machine. Also leviathan will not be just an airtime machine, but other things.
They also have 5 decent/fair loopers. They could renovate/redo whatever to one of these 5 coasters to make it more like a modern looper.

Again, I have also said a modern looper (like a flyer or something from B&M) would be great and hopefully in the future that is what the park will get. Im not denying the fact they could use some better loopers, but as a solution for now, I suggested the idea that it would be better for the park (since they are already getting leviathan, and they cant suddenly change their minds and get a modern looper) that right now it would be better to slightly do-up the existing 5 looping coasters. Make sense?

 

[furie]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Also leviathan will not be just an airtime machine, but other things.

And people are saying "what other things"? It's not going to loop, or have a launch, or drifting cars, or fit models who pleasure you sexually as you traverse the circuit.

So what is it that you're vehemently defending as being stand-out and different with Leviathan?

I don't think anyone actually thinks this will be a poor ride, it looks great, but just "more of the same". Or even less of the same.

Having an opinion is fine, but you may be required to justify that opinion other than using a "well it's what I think" argument

 

[Ben]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Maybe its not going into the best option of parks, but I do think Leviathan will be better than Behemoth.
We can all sit here as long as we want and debate about which one will be better, but no one is going to know until opening day. And even then Im sure there will be a couple of annoying people who think the ride isnt good and need to get their heads out of their asses.

So why bother debate about which one will be better, because as of now NO ONE knows.
IMO, Leviathan is an improvement upon Behemoth. I think it will be better, different and more unique. Obviously this *could* turn out as a load of crap, but people arent listening to what im trying to say about adding another looping coaster.

Yes, a B&M floorless or looper would be great. But that is improving upon rides they already have. And IN MY OPINION (dont bite my dam head off) that is what Leviathan is doing anyways!
I would rather they fix up the loopers they already have, try and make the rides more comfortable, rather than adding another better looping coaster.
And SERIOUSLY, it seems like the general opinion here is that with Leviathan its the last coaster CW is ever going to add. Its a huge park and they will find ways to constantly add more. Just be happy about this ride, and perhaps the next roller coaster they will put in will be some sort of B&M Flyer .....

I think that would be GREAT!
BUT....right now I think the park should focus on improving the condition of the already existing 5 loopers they have, instead of having a sixth looping coaster and 5 other ones that really arent so great.

So you honestly think they should improve upon/make worthless their star attraction, instead of improving on rides that are old and aren't very good?

AND I'm not allowed to insult you because everyone is a budding little genius?

Sense, this makes none.

You might want to think about why you're the only person fighting your corner.

 

[emery96]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

In a recent ACE event at Wonderland, it was asked during the Q&A about adding Leviathan with Behemoth already there. CW said that they will infact ride quite differently, despite the similarities between the two.

Everyone keeps saying that this ride is in the wrong park. I must respectfully disagree with this. I really cannot think of any other Cedar Fair park that is more deserving of this ride then CW (well, maybe besides Knott's, but I'm not sure they have the room for a giga.) Cedar Point is obviously out of the question on this one. Both King's Island and Carowinds both got a B&M mega coaster only a couple of years ago that both resemble Leviathan a lot more than Behemoth does. King's Doimion just got a giga, don't think I need to explain that one. CGA is being sold, scratch that one of the list. All of the smaller parks like Michigan's Adventure, Worlds of Fun, etc... just can't compete with CW's attendence and profit either. Seems logical to me.

The GP already is, and will likely continue to into the future, go crazy over this ride. Sure, they could have added a looper, but there really is not much of a point to me. The crowds here are willing to line up over 2 hours to ride an SLC, clearly 'quality looper' does not mean much to them.

I don't think any other ride could have attracted the GP more. Being able to boast the tallest and fastest in Canada again, will translate to "OMG its hugeeee, like 3000' tall!!!!11!!!" to the GP. This coaster WILL bring in the crowds, and cover up the PR mess of WindSeeker.

Agree with me or not, I was just stating my opinion here.

 

[michaellll]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^ Now you made some decent points, and you've practically switched my point of view.

(roundofapplause)

See D1993, this is what your post should have looked like.

 

[CoasterCrazy]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Construction update-
http://leviathan.canadaswonderland.com/public/latest/

Including the lift hill!

 

[Bottom_Feeder_13]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

It looks like the brake-run is still taller than the lift hill.

 

[Hixee]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

The lift hill looks really shallow compared to the other hypers. Maybe it's just the angle, but I'm sure Diamondback's lift climbs more steeply than that.

 

[Josh73]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I was thinking the exact same thing. Up 300 feet at that angle will take a while. Especially with the limited room CW has.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^ Now you made some decent points, and you've practically switched my point of view.

(roundofapplause)

See D1993, this is what your post should have looked like.

thats what exactly what I was saying! for the love of god!
Is Australian not spoken here, am I speaking another language?

And yes, I do realise I just opened myself up to some snide and sarcastic remark.

The fact is that whatever sort of 'sixth modern looper' they got, they public would definetly respond better to Leviathan and the looping rides they already have are already popular, so im saying just invest some more into them FOR NOW.
I wouldnt have been saying this before Leviathan, because I do think the park needs a looper that is modern. But now obviously they cant, so whats the whole point of complaining about Leviathan right now. As ive said, I just want to be excited for this ride and hope in the future CW will get a good looping coaster.
Can I add that the debate started because lots of people were complaining Leviathan should not have been added this year and instead a looper and I was simply saying that Leviathan will be a great attraction and as of now all we can hope for is a looper in the future.

 

[Josh73]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Exactly. That is exctly what I am thinking, just stop **** about it! I mean seriously, let's hope for a looper in the future. Well put, D1993.

 

[D1993]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Also leviathan will not be just an airtime machine, but other things.

And people are saying "what other things"? It's not going to loop, or have a launch, or drifting cars, or fit models who pleasure you sexually as you traverse the circuit.

So what is it that you're vehemently defending as being stand-out and different with Leviathan?

I don't think anyone actually thinks this will be a poor ride, it looks great, but just "more of the same". Or even less of the same.

Having an opinion is fine, but you may be required to justify that opinion other than using a "well it's what I think" argument

Vehemently? I'm just getting frustrated because Its not clear what I'm saying or people aren't understanding it. I'm simply trying to say people should stop complaining about the fact the park should have added a good looping coaster and be happy with Leviathan. I think it fits perfectly well.
Obviously the park too thinks Leviathan and Behemoth will ride differently. Behemoth is basically just airtime. Not that there's anything wrong with 'basically just' airtime. But IMO Leviathan is different, it has huge overbanked turns (and it wont feel like behemoth's or Nitro's because you're going 130kmh+ through that first one). Its got a few airtime hills, everything does good with airtime. It has the two weird twisty low to the ground turns. When I first saw it, it kinda reminded me of that twist I305 does after the big airtime hill right under the lift hill. And lastly the drop. I really do think the drop will be one of the most insane drops out there. Its a 300 foot drop at 80 degrees with those beautiful B&M lap bars. I really don't think this will be 'more of the same'.
Can we all remember when I305 was announced. Do you remember how people were extremely pissed? (I'm asking genuine questions here) and how lots of people thought I305 was going to be the worst giga in creation. Well, after the ride opened there were a couple thousand weeping losers. lol.
What im saying, is that with animations (specifically Cedar Fair ones), the rides ALWAYS ride faster and better than they are shown in the animation. I remember this specifically being the deal with many of the rides added to Cedar Fair parks in the past. Its easy to say its 'more of the same' from looking at the animations and watching the POVS, but it doesn't do the ride justice. Not even close. Not even real POV's do the ride justice. Watch one of I305 and you'd never know its that intense when actually riding!


So while my opinion of the ride being better and different than Behemoth may be based upon just what I've seen and think that it will look different, however other people seem to have based their opinions upon very little. Initially I was just debating with the people who would post one lines about how the ride was going to suck. Or how stupid is it that CW is putting this in. Were those people justifying their argument behind "its just what I think"?
No.
And there's nothing wrong with that, I said it myself too there's nothing wrong with having an opinion but I still like to talk about the debate etc and find why people think the things they do.
Instead of receiving rude and snide remarks just because my opinion is different.

Again, I'm sorry if what I'm saying is not being clearly received by other members, but in the future would it not be better for you to try and simply ask what I mean if you're not getting my point, because I am reading over my post numerous times making sure things make sense.

 

[michaellll]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

dude.

People aren't giving their full arguments because it's been argued MANY times. We're all pretty much done with that part of the ordeal. We've moved on. If you didn't notice, this thread is thirty something pages long...

And let me tell you, we understand what you're saying. Your arguments are just lacking structure and legitimate logos.

 

[Ben]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

And frankly, seeing as you're fighting this corner on your own, we're a bit bored of telling you you're wrong and dressing it up in various different frocks to try and get the point through.

It doesn't even look as steep as the other ride that is the exact. same. in the same. bloody. park.

 

[emery96]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

And frankly, seeing as you're fighting this corner on your own,

It seems you must have just completely ignored my earlier post then?

we're a bit bored of telling you you're wrong and dressing it up in various different frocks to try and get the point through.

And who are you to tell us that our opinions are wrong? Quite simply, no one here is wrong, since we are all arguing our opinion.

It doesn't even look as steep as the other ride that is the exact. same. in the same. bloody. park.

If it's not as steep, does that not mean that it won't be exactly the same? Let's just assume that Levaithan does indeeed, have the same level of inline on the lift hill. I am still drawing a blank as to how they are the exact same. Let's compare the layouts for a second. Behemoth's layout is drop, airtime hill, hammer head turn, airtime hill (x3), MCBR, helix (x2), airtime hill. Seems like a pretty basic layout to me. Now look at Leviathan's layout, drop, over banked turn, high speed turn, airtime hill, hammer head turn, high speed turn, airtime hill, banked turn. They seem to be different to me.


On the topic of Leviathan's layout, to me it seems your logic of Behemoth and Leviathan being the exact same ride, should also say that Millenium Force is the exact same ride. Compare Leviathan's layout to MF's, and you will notice that there are not that many differences. However, I have a feeling that is this layout was designed by Intamin opposed to B&M, the complaints of this being the same ride as Behemoth would simply not exist.


Just my opinion though...

 

[Ben]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^I'm sorry, as much as I'd love to reply to your post, arguing is banned.

If I were to argue I'd tell you that your assumptions about the layouts being totally different are sort of on-track, yes the low to the ground hills are different to the huge ones, well spotted there chappie. The problem is this is billed around being a tall, fast hyper coaster from B&M. The same as their last coaster. The same as the only good coaster they have other than Vortex. It's got some low turns, woo. Basically because they wouldn't be able to afford to build anything with an actual layout like Behemoth.

And no, if they'd built an Intamin, like, say, I305, everyone would still be as up in arms about it as they are now. Because they simply don't need it. There's a reason a decision like this has never been made before. And no, Millennium Force in the same park as Magnum is NOT the same thing, seeing as MF is in a whole new league technology wise. This takes a step BACKWARDS from the new technology Behemoth introduced...

AGAIN.

This will be a fun ride. Do I think it'll actually be better than Behemoth? No. It looks a bit meh after the drop. No-one is denying it's a cool idea, and we're all glad B&M are doing it. For the millionth time though, it is in utterly the wrong park. The layouts aren't the same NO. But, in terms of type, look, and how it's sold, they ARE the same. Hell, a Behemoth and a Leviathan (as in the creatures) are basically the same things, but one's wet and the other's dry.

But, obviously, arguing is banned, personality is banned, so I didn't actually say any of that.