Alton Towers | The Smiler | Gerstlauer Infinity
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Re: New
I'm just really upset that it's going to be at least six months before we have 30 pages about what colour it actually is.
Tin sheds, shipping containers and a big spider thing to distract you from noticing it looks like everything else Merlin have ever done.
Though the spider thing is very cool.
Anyone studied the plans closely enough to work out if the twisted elements are too tight for a "wing" style train?
marc said:The 1st 30 pages were about the type of coaster
I'm just really upset that it's going to be at least six months before we have 30 pages about what colour it actually is.
Tin sheds, shipping containers and a big spider thing to distract you from noticing it looks like everything else Merlin have ever done.
Though the spider thing is very cool.
Anyone studied the plans closely enough to work out if the twisted elements are too tight for a "wing" style train?
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
I like the theming! At least they've covered MOST of the tin sheds with concrete appearance.
I don't think this logic flows at all. Since Gerst track is available in NL, why not use it? Pretty sure Gerstlauer actually use a ...erm, proper? system like the rest of them. NoLimits will be for illustrative purposes and by Merlin, surely? Saw had accurate plans, why did they randomly change for this? It's weird regardless.UC said:
I like the theming!
At least they've covered MOST of the tin sheds with concrete appearance.
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
The logic also doesn't flow that they said "same type as Saw" and then mean "something utterly different" in a document. There's lots of ambiguity and oddness about all of this, so we can only go on the things we actually know. It's still speculation, but until new "real" evidence comes to light, there;s just the one piece so far and logically it holds more water than anything else.
The logic also doesn't flow that they said "same type as Saw" and then mean "something utterly different" in a document. There's lots of ambiguity and oddness about all of this, so we can only go on the things we actually know. It's still speculation, but until new "real" evidence comes to light, there;s just the one piece so far and logically it holds more water than anything else.
OfficialAltonTowers
Roller Poster
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
If we look closely children, we can see that the "plan" views of the ride 'seem' to be Intamin or Gerstlauer, but the shot of the spider scenery thing would suggest a B&M or Maurer (X Train). Now we have the few most likely manufacturers we can start to narrow it down.
As mentioned before the radii of most of the elements kind of puts the odds against B&M, as we all know B&M don't really make small, tight coasters. Furthermore the footprint of this ride is really tiny, compared to the likes of Oblivion and Air, which are both rather simple rides but take up a huge space this is a rather complex ride with a lot of tight elements put in a relatively small space. This isn't to say that B&M cant do small coasters, they just don't regularly do them. And now to open the comments to "What about Daemonen".
With the B&M argument in place we can apply the same rules to the Maurer X Train, the track is way too tight for this new style of car, even though I will probably be flamed by people saying "we don't know what it can do" etc. Hopefully most people will have the sense to see that its rather like a standard B&M Looper, Hyper, or Floorless in size and shape, so that pretty much rules that out. However there's nothing to stop us suggesting the X Car type train/track, however we would then all be arguing about capacity and such.
Whilst on the note of capacity, would Alton really want another low capacity ride? Ok a Gerstlauer EF would be able to pull all of those cool inversions, but at what cost to loading and queue times.
This is why im hoping for an Intamin, I am probably the biggest B&M fanboy arround, but with the facts we have here this is the best I can hope for, a short, Rita size train would comfortably be able to perform all of those inversions, and we have seen a lot of this style track before in coasters like Colossus etc.
Furthermore, to back this up, to get planning permission you have to give an idea of what the thing you are applying for will look like when its finished, so if it were a conservatory for example you couldn't specify solid tubes for review and appeal, then use ones with holes in, you would have to rip it down and rebuild it to the approved standard, so I would assume that the track on the plans is a pretty accurate representation, which indefinitely points to an Intamin or Gerstlauer.
Lastly, this topic is already too full of people saying stupid, unjust comments like, I want it to be a pink coaster that jumps tracks then dances, we need to be grown ups here and take the facts at hand and not just type crappy verbal diarrhea slooge all over the forum, and actually post intelligent, sensible remarks that actually make a coherent argument or point.
Now the new discussion should be: What do we think the "Worlds First" is going to be? I eagerly await your comments.
If we look closely children, we can see that the "plan" views of the ride 'seem' to be Intamin or Gerstlauer, but the shot of the spider scenery thing would suggest a B&M or Maurer (X Train). Now we have the few most likely manufacturers we can start to narrow it down.
As mentioned before the radii of most of the elements kind of puts the odds against B&M, as we all know B&M don't really make small, tight coasters. Furthermore the footprint of this ride is really tiny, compared to the likes of Oblivion and Air, which are both rather simple rides but take up a huge space this is a rather complex ride with a lot of tight elements put in a relatively small space. This isn't to say that B&M cant do small coasters, they just don't regularly do them. And now to open the comments to "What about Daemonen".
With the B&M argument in place we can apply the same rules to the Maurer X Train, the track is way too tight for this new style of car, even though I will probably be flamed by people saying "we don't know what it can do" etc. Hopefully most people will have the sense to see that its rather like a standard B&M Looper, Hyper, or Floorless in size and shape, so that pretty much rules that out. However there's nothing to stop us suggesting the X Car type train/track, however we would then all be arguing about capacity and such.
Whilst on the note of capacity, would Alton really want another low capacity ride? Ok a Gerstlauer EF would be able to pull all of those cool inversions, but at what cost to loading and queue times.
This is why im hoping for an Intamin, I am probably the biggest B&M fanboy arround, but with the facts we have here this is the best I can hope for, a short, Rita size train would comfortably be able to perform all of those inversions, and we have seen a lot of this style track before in coasters like Colossus etc.
Furthermore, to back this up, to get planning permission you have to give an idea of what the thing you are applying for will look like when its finished, so if it were a conservatory for example you couldn't specify solid tubes for review and appeal, then use ones with holes in, you would have to rip it down and rebuild it to the approved standard, so I would assume that the track on the plans is a pretty accurate representation, which indefinitely points to an Intamin or Gerstlauer.
Lastly, this topic is already too full of people saying stupid, unjust comments like, I want it to be a pink coaster that jumps tracks then dances, we need to be grown ups here and take the facts at hand and not just type crappy verbal diarrhea slooge all over the forum, and actually post intelligent, sensible remarks that actually make a coherent argument or point.
Now the new discussion should be: What do we think the "Worlds First" is going to be? I eagerly await your comments.
Tomatron
Giga Poster
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
It's blates gonna have endangered white lions jumping through the loops, doing Tequilla slammers whilst on fire!!!1!11!
Alton Towers will ultimately get whatever they think is best from their marketing and growth strategies, regardless of who builds it.
I couldn't care less who builds it and what the world first is, even if it is endangered white lions jumping through the loops, doing Tequilla slammers whilst on fire.
As long as whatever they get is good.
It's blates gonna have endangered white lions jumping through the loops, doing Tequilla slammers whilst on fire!!!1!11!
Alton Towers will ultimately get whatever they think is best from their marketing and growth strategies, regardless of who builds it.
I couldn't care less who builds it and what the world first is, even if it is endangered white lions jumping through the loops, doing Tequilla slammers whilst on fire.
As long as whatever they get is good.
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
Tbh I have no interest in the worlds 1st either I just want a world class coaster than another park cannot out do a few months later.
As for B&M there are just too many reasons why I don't think it would be them, tight layout plus vertical lift hill. These are just 2 things we have not seen them do. I am not saying they could not do it, but I simply don't see it.
Tbh I have no interest in the worlds 1st either I just want a world class coaster than another park cannot out do a few months later.
As for B&M there are just too many reasons why I don't think it would be them, tight layout plus vertical lift hill. These are just 2 things we have not seen them do. I am not saying they could not do it, but I simply don't see it.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
Been over this a thousand times, but I still don't get why people claim it's silly to doubt the accuracy of of the statement "same type and manufacturer as Saw" when other areas of the document are obviously inaccurate. No one's explained this and every time it's brought up It's like you've forgotten?
Not that I don't think it's Gerst anymore. I do. But stil.
A bit like how they said it has a "beyond vertical drop" and then mean "vertical lift" in a document, too... I guess?
Been over this a thousand times, but I still don't get why people claim it's silly to doubt the accuracy of of the statement "same type and manufacturer as Saw" when other areas of the document are obviously inaccurate. No one's explained this and every time it's brought up It's like you've forgotten?
Not that I don't think it's Gerst anymore. I do. But stil.
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
I find it impossible to suggest any different possibilities for the 'world first' aspect. Not like people actually seem to care here.
Self-duelling has already been stated.
There's a respectable layout outside of the station, so having the element in the building would be rather cheap and anti-climatic.
Technology/Train Type but that's up in the air speculation.
The spider feature cannot move so animated large-scale scenery will be very unlikely.
Perhaps 'tightest' roller coaster of the type to be decided? The layout seems very condensed.
It's going to have to be something to make the normal pleb public go wow. They won't be interested in some subtle feet of engineering sadly.
I find it impossible to suggest any different possibilities for the 'world first' aspect. Not like people actually seem to care here.
Self-duelling has already been stated.
There's a respectable layout outside of the station, so having the element in the building would be rather cheap and anti-climatic.
Technology/Train Type but that's up in the air speculation.
The spider feature cannot move so animated large-scale scenery will be very unlikely.
Perhaps 'tightest' roller coaster of the type to be decided? The layout seems very condensed.
It's going to have to be something to make the normal pleb public go wow. They won't be interested in some subtle feet of engineering sadly.
rollermonkey
Strata Poster
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
Whether MS, GCI or B&M, I've never heard onboard audio from off-ride.
Brett7710 said:
Whether MS, GCI or B&M, I've never heard onboard audio from off-ride.
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
The problem is this Joey:
"I am a white male, 34 years old and I like outdoor sports like roller coasters"
Two of those "facts" are incorrect/inaccurate, does it make the whole statement incorrect?
Just because some details are wrong doesn't mean that the entire thing is suddenly to be thrown out. It's unlikely that a firm of lawyers producing a planning application know the difference between a vertical lift and a beyond vertical drop, it's coaster geek speak. However, if Alton say Gerstlauer made Saw and Gerstlauer are making this, then they can work out they're the same thing, you don't need to be an expert to make a match there.
It may be completely wrong, but it's the only evidence we have. To discredit the whole thing on some mistakes is wrong. We write off what we know is false and stick to what we're presented with that we don't know if true or not. When we have further proof that too is wrong, then we write that off too. Until then, we stick it with all the other evidence as "most likely to be true". As it's the only evidence we have, even with incorrect stuff out there, it's still all we have. Speculation over track design, layout, etc is good because somebody may be able to make a point that throws the chances of it being Gerstlauer completely out. However, until anything convincingly does that. we just have one tiny snippet of evidence and have to assume it's right (for the moment).
Joey said:
The problem is this Joey:
"I am a white male, 34 years old and I like outdoor sports like roller coasters"
Two of those "facts" are incorrect/inaccurate, does it make the whole statement incorrect?
Just because some details are wrong doesn't mean that the entire thing is suddenly to be thrown out. It's unlikely that a firm of lawyers producing a planning application know the difference between a vertical lift and a beyond vertical drop, it's coaster geek speak. However, if Alton say Gerstlauer made Saw and Gerstlauer are making this, then they can work out they're the same thing, you don't need to be an expert to make a match there.
It may be completely wrong, but it's the only evidence we have. To discredit the whole thing on some mistakes is wrong. We write off what we know is false and stick to what we're presented with that we don't know if true or not. When we have further proof that too is wrong, then we write that off too. Until then, we stick it with all the other evidence as "most likely to be true". As it's the only evidence we have, even with incorrect stuff out there, it's still all we have. Speculation over track design, layout, etc is good because somebody may be able to make a point that throws the chances of it being Gerstlauer completely out. However, until anything convincingly does that. we just have one tiny snippet of evidence and have to assume it's right (for the moment).
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
Or, perhaps it's an intentional lie - either to make this ride seem more like Saw than it is, or to throw us lot?
No, but what it does do is raise suspicious about why you would lie either intently or accidentally get it wrong. If you're lying, then you cannot be trusted. If you made a mistake, then you cannot be trusted.furie said:
I agree with you, but why did they even need to mention the beyond vertical drop bit in the first place? And why did they get it wrong? It's not like they've said something wrong, or in the wrong terms, they've completely got it wrong. Maybe if it had said "vertical drop" and it was a a typo that should say "lift", but it's a bit far to claim "beyond vertical drop" is a typo/mistake/whatever. If whoever wrote it are capable of making an error like that, It's not a stretch at all to think they could have made an error on the other bit too. I guess it would be a case of them being told that the comparative ride is Saw at Thorpe Park because it's similar or the same kind of thing and they could have elaborated that based on information on the web.
Or, perhaps it's an intentional lie - either to make this ride seem more like Saw than it is, or to throw us lot?
I'm not writing it off, I'm wondering why it's wrong and why everyone seems so disinterested in the fact that it's wrong.
Re: New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
So the people putting in the planning app were told:
"It's Gerstlauer, the same people who made Saw and it's a similar ride, go write STUFF".
They've been told the manufacturer, but the rest is stuff they have to get from details about Saw? Not plausible?
I'm more interested in why they put "same manufacturer" than why they got techy/geeky stuff wrong
So the people putting in the planning app were told:
"It's Gerstlauer, the same people who made Saw and it's a similar ride, go write STUFF".
They've been told the manufacturer, but the rest is stuff they have to get from details about Saw? Not plausible?
I'm more interested in why they put "same manufacturer" than why they got techy/geeky stuff wrong
New "world-first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013
The way I see it is if it was 100% them they would have actually put the proper company name down, they did not do this, why did they not do this?
It would have actually been less words and 100% confirmation.
When you higher a car they say you will get a ford focus or equivalent, how many times have you ended up with a focus? Never lol. It's just wording to give you an idea of the size of the car. Sorry but for me this is the same, they just put something down on paper to get it signed off.
The way I see it is if it was 100% them they would have actually put the proper company name down, they did not do this, why did they not do this?
It would have actually been less words and 100% confirmation.
When you higher a car they say you will get a ford focus or equivalent, how many times have you ended up with a focus? Never lol
. It's just wording to give you an idea of the size of the car. Sorry but for me this is the same, they just put something down on paper to get it signed off.- Status