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Alton Towers SW8

Lofty

CF Legend
That's not strictly true, The Dungeons are always drawing in crowds and it all depends on what type of entrance the attraction has. Pasaje Del Terror gets extremely busy when the park closes, yet doesn't retain a large throughput through the day as it's an up charge attraction and isn't actually anything to do with Blackpool Pleasure Beach (apart from them renting the building).

Sub-Terra didn't work because it's not a scare attraction (scare maze is a stupid term). In essence it's a dark ride with an additional themed interactive exit. The attraction was NOT designed to be a scare attraction but due to the customer experience being low they added it to make the attraction feel more substantial - yet it failed and felt like a completely different experience.

I REALLY don't think this will be a scare attraction/ride combination, at all, and quite frankly, it won't be.

Keane Lebt was was created after Krake opened by a few months, they also run a children's version of the attraction making it somewhat a different experience and not a typical 'scare attraction'.


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Sandman

Giga Poster
Lofty said:
That's not strictly true, The Dungeons are always drawing in crowds and it all depends on what type of entrance the attraction has.

Dungeons are a different ball game. Always strategically placed in high foot traffic areas and incredibly busy tourist locations. That plus their good marketing & advertising means they are always in demand. That said, I agree that I can't see anything remotely like a scare attraction happening at Towers for a long time. I'm hoping Merlin look back in hindsight and realise they've really overplayed the whole abandoned industrial horror theme with their last few major investments (Saw, Swarm, Smiler, DBGT etc).
 

Lofty

CF Legend
Pasaje Del Terror was mentioned, The Dungeons is in the same town and is in the same genre of 'scare entertainment', so in this context it was the correct case study to use.

I truly don't think that an abandoned 'anything' would fit the location that this new ride is meant to be, plus, that initial poster for SW8 SCREAMS adventure due to the typeface, banner shape and textures used.


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JoshC.

Strata Poster
Sandman said:
I'm hoping Merlin look back in hindsight and realise they've really overplayed the whole abandoned industrial horror theme with their last few major investments (Saw, Swarm, Smiler, DBGT etc).

Have they "overplayed" that theme though? Whilst they have definitely used the dark theme a lot, especially with major investments, isn't that them just responding to what guests want? And it seems like what the majority of the public want is these scary / horror themed attractions.

And you can't really blame Merlin either. When you look at how busy and how well received Fright Nights and Scarefest are, of course they want to replicate that success all season round. But 'scare mazes' are never as possible outside Halloween events, so it's only natural to try and get that level of scare into ride environments.
 

Sandman

Giga Poster
JoshC. said:
Sandman said:
I'm hoping Merlin look back in hindsight and realise they've really overplayed the whole abandoned industrial horror theme with their last few major investments (Saw, Swarm, Smiler, DBGT etc).

Have they "overplayed" that theme though? Whilst they have definitely used the dark theme a lot, especially with major investments, isn't that them just responding to what guests want? And it seems like what the majority of the public want is these scary / horror themed attractions.

And you can't really blame Merlin either. When you look at how busy and how well received Fright Nights and Scarefest are, of course they want to replicate that success all season round. But 'scare mazes' are never as possible outside Halloween events, so it's only natural to try and get that level of scare into ride environments.

I don't really think there's an major indicator that the GP are desperate for that theme. I think what the public wants is generally just scary rides, the theme doesn't have to be horror or anything. A bit of variation makes theme parks tick, diversity in rides and themes is what works best. Look at Disney etc. I mean, sure the horror theme might be popular, but how do we know anything else would be less popular? Haven't really had chance over here in the UK to find out. Thorpe (in my opinion) feels a bit samey and will continue to do so if they don't try new things. I don't think SW8 will be in the same vain as that, at least I hope.
 

JoshC.

Strata Poster
Sandman said:
JoshC. said:
Sandman said:
I'm hoping Merlin look back in hindsight and realise they've really overplayed the whole abandoned industrial horror theme with their last few major investments (Saw, Swarm, Smiler, DBGT etc).

Have they "overplayed" that theme though? Whilst they have definitely used the dark theme a lot, especially with major investments, isn't that them just responding to what guests want? And it seems like what the majority of the public want is these scary / horror themed attractions.

And you can't really blame Merlin either. When you look at how busy and how well received Fright Nights and Scarefest are, of course they want to replicate that success all season round. But 'scare mazes' are never as possible outside Halloween events, so it's only natural to try and get that level of scare into ride environments.

I don't really think there's an major indicator that the GP are desperate for that theme. I think what the public wants is generally just scary rides, the theme doesn't have to be horror or anything. A bit of variation makes theme parks tick, diversity in rides and themes is what works best. Look at Disney etc. I mean, sure the horror theme might be popular, but how do we know anything else would be less popular? Haven't really had chance over here in the UK to find out. Thorpe (in my opinion) feels a bit samey and will continue to do so if they don't try new things. I don't think SW8 will be in the same vain as that, at least I hope.

Whilst I agree diversity is good and everything, surely it's a case of Merlin simply responding to what guests say? The reason other things aren't being given a chance is simply because guests don't want to give it a chance - they want scary, they want horror. Why give people something they're not asking for.

I wouldn't call Thorpe samey personally; Saw, Swarm and Ghost Train are all very different types of scary attractions in my opinion. And their other destruction-themed rides are all different enough as well. I'd of course love something a bit more upbeat and light-hearted, but what they've got is working for me at the moment!

Back onto SW8, and I agree that if the posters are anything to go by, we're not in for a horror theme, or even a scary theme. Certainly could be more of an adventure style, which is something Alton would really need tbh.
 

Sandman

Giga Poster
^ Again, I don't necessarily think the GP want a specific theme inasmuch as they simply want the ride itself to be big and scary. It probably comes down to demographic, and I do think a lot of people enjoy the scary horror stuff, but personally I think big chain parks like that should be more creative and take new directions where possible. Since Thirteen (6 years ago) I've become fairly blase towards the whole 'dark industrial' thing. Thing is, I'm not disregarding all 'scary themes' as it's such a broad term that there's other creative ways of approaching it. I just find Thirteen, Saw, Swarm, Smiler etc. to all be a bit similar and boring. Considering the amount of money spent on each project and the time/effort gone into it, you'd just assume they'd hit a new angle by now.

Anyway enough of Forpe and my disatisfaction with Merlin's creative choices, I do think SW8 will be fairly special regardless of ride type or manufacturer. Just because, it finally looks like we're going to see a fresh angle with regards to theme and narrative. :--D
 

Dave

CF Legend
After being in the park today, looking at the size of the site of The Flume and the amount of room from there to Ripsaw. If the rumours are true it'll be one hell of a ride!

But until work starts I'll sit idle watching on in this thread!
 

Sandman

Giga Poster
Has anyone got any alternate photos of the boarded area? I've only seen the one SW8 photo from when it first cropped up.
 

SaiyanHajime

CF Legend
Lofty will disagree here, but the reason for Merlin's love of horror themes is that you get more bang for your buck with them.

Fear is the most powerful emotion because it's a survival tool, so we respond instinctively to it, where joy is really hard to immerse an audience in as everyone's taste varies. Positive experiences are just inherently harder to get a reaction to.

Stories not built around some kind of peril are more often than not childish. And peril has to be convincing to not be laughable. One way to make it convincing is to make the audience feel vulnerable in the darkness, make them jump, etc. Compared to other methods, these horror tropes are cheaper and arguably more effective.

That's not to say horror attractions can't be more than cheap jumps and dark corners, the best of them clearly involve the audience further. But if you don't have to theme walls because they're shrouded in darkness. Or hide your monster Alien and Jaws style, only showing brief flashes amongst suspense, you've saved money and created a more powerful show.

Not to mention, it's hard to make a joyful theme from man-made found materials that Merlin love. And Merlin love them because they're cheap. Shipping containers, wooden fences, etc. They're going with themes that match what they financially have access to. Which is smart. Just... Depressing.

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Lofty

CF Legend
Joey said:
Lofty will disagree here

This may shock you...

but the reason for Merlin's love of horror themes is that you get more bang for your buck with them.

Yeah, not just Merlin, but you are correct in this analysis. For example, it's much much much cheaper to create a broken down warehouse environment than it is to construct a mining themed attraction with rock work, wooden structures etc.


Fear is the most powerful emotion because it's a survival tool, so we respond instinctively to it, where joy is really hard to immerse an audience in as everyone's taste varies. Positive experiences are just inherently harder to get a reaction to.

Correct again regarding Fear as a great tool for an emotive response. Any form of horror, impact or malice son the guests that creates the notion that their very being is in danger creates a response, even for a split second before the brain reaffirms that you're in safe hands on a ride that's designed for this very nature - that split second response of the 'fight, flight or freeze response' is what immerses guests into the narrative. Positive emotions can be hard to create the same interactive emotive state to an experience, but with the use of music as an aid, it can also ver really quite easy. Alongside this, take a look at the Harry Potter rides, they use threat and malice throughout the experience with a huge positive pay-off at the end of the experience, the 'goodbye scene' as I like to call it with the theme tune and characters bidding farewell to the guests, it creates an uplifting end to the experience that isn't reliant on a negative notion.


Stories not built around some kind of peril are more often than not childish. And peril has to be convincing to not be laughable. One way to make it convincing is to make the audience feel vulnerable in the darkness, make them jump, etc. Compared to other methods, these horror tropes are cheaper and arguably more effective.

Yep, I sort of agree with you on this one, but look at some dark rides like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and even Bubble Works, they're not malice or threat abiding experiences, they're dark rides that rely on positive emotions from the guests. Yes, in dark experiences you may have scary characters/animatronics making sudden appearances as jump scares, or air blasts, loud noises, even atmospherics such as scents, heat changes etc. - on the flip side, compare a 'family friendly' dark ride with that, Alice in Wonderland at Blackpool (random case study, I know), they have a dark ride, with scenes, animatronics, characters appearing suddenly in lights, atmospherics such as haze, scents and music - on paper, if you look at the aspects of each of the rides, they're not actually that far apart, it's just the CONTENT that makes them different.


That's not to say horror attractions can't be more than cheap jumps and dark corners, the best of them clearly involve the audience further. But if you don't have to theme walls because they're shrouded in darkness. Or hide your monster Alien and Jaws style, only showing brief flashes amongst suspense, you've saved money and created a more powerful show.

Exactly, it's such a difficult topic to talk about because there's arguments for both sides, no matter our opinions, when we make a point, we're also making an argument for the other side. I do agree with some extent that the horror genre in rides relies on darkness and can get away with black walls etc., but as stated above, so do some dark rides catered towards the children's fantasy genre.


Not to mention, it's hard to make a joyful theme from man-made found materials that Merlin love. And Merlin love them because they're cheap. Shipping containers, wooden fences, etc. They're going with themes that match what they financially have access to. Which is smart. Just... Depressing.

This. I think they're on to a losing streak because there's only so far they're gonna be able to go before the containers just don't fit. I mean, look at Thirteen for example, a somewhat well conceived crypt and church building, then they put a **** shipping container as a shop. It's ridiculous.
 

CoastinBear

Roller Poster
Sandman said:
^ Again, I don't necessarily think the GP want a specific theme inasmuch as they simply want the ride itself to be big and scary. It probably comes down to demographic, and I do think a lot of people enjoy the scary horror stuff, but personally I think big chain parks like that should be more creative and take new directions where possible. Since Thirteen (6 years ago) I've become fairly blase towards the whole 'dark industrial' thing. Thing is, I'm not disregarding all 'scary themes' as it's such a broad term that there's other creative ways of approaching it. I just find Thirteen, Saw, Swarm, Smiler etc. to all be a bit similar and boring. Considering the amount of money spent on each project and the time/effort gone into it, you'd just assume they'd hit a new angle by now.

Anyway enough of Forpe and my disatisfaction with Merlin's creative choices, I do think SW8 will be fairly special regardless of ride type or manufacturer. Just because, it finally looks like we're going to see a fresh angle with regards to theme and narrative. :--D

I actually stopped going to Alton Towers after my last ride on the Corkscrew just before it was due to be removed. Another major area of the park with a relatively jolly theme given a makeover to become yet another ghosty/haunted/doom-laden part of the park. People might like all the horror themes, but it doesn't appeal to everyone and, to be honest, gets rather boring when you're going out for a fun day.

The Gardens become "Gloomy Wood" and "Forbidden Valley"
The pleasant Towers become the site of the ghosty, haunted Hex
Fantasy World becomes X-Sector with its colour scheme of concrete grey, black, and rides themed around entering a state of being eternally forgotten and being brainwashed.
Festival Park, via Ug Land, becomes a place of gloom and ghosty, haunted stuff, with the ride introduced as being "far too intense - psycoaster - minimum age limit recommended".
And now Merrie England?
Enough already!
 

Sandman

Giga Poster
Joey said:
Not to mention, it's hard to make a joyful theme from man-made found materials that Merlin love. And Merlin love them because they're cheap. Shipping containers, wooden fences, etc. They're going with themes that match what they financially have access to. Which is smart. Just... Depressing.

That's sort of how I see a lot of it. I just personally don't find it immersive. Once you've seen one shipping container, you've seen them all. If I so desired to spend time with lots of metal fencing and containers, I could easily nip over to the local ASDA warehouse :p
 
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