WTF BPB?

[Jamesss]

I love the Steeplechase and would be sad if it ever went. It fits so snugly in that area intertwining with the other rides.

BPB has lost so much memorable stuff over the past couple of decades I don't want to see them removing any more.

I last visited in 2011, and that's largely because a lot of what I loved about the park has gone.

Wild Mouse
Gold Mine
Space Invader
Noah's Ark
Monorail
Log Flume
Trauma Towers
The Whip

Icon doesn't make up for all those losses. I live in the South and for me it's not worth the trek up anymore.

 

[rob666]

Don't forget the Reel.

 

[RevolutionRuleZ]

I love the Steeplechase and would be sad if it ever went. It fits so snugly in that area intertwining with the other rides.

BPB has lost so much memorable stuff over the past couple of decades I don't want to see them removing any more.

I last visited in 2011, and that's largely because a lot of what I loved about the park has gone.

Wild Mouse
Gold Mine
Space Invader
Noah's Ark
Monorail
Log Flume
Trauma Towers
The Whip

Icon doesn't make up for all those losses. I live in the South and for me it's not worth the trek up anymore.

A lot of those are the kind of unique rides that made BPB special, regardless of how good they actually are. The Whip is a great example, no one will ever try and say its a signature ride, or a particularly thrilling one, but it was fun, and a laugh. Steeplechase falls under the same umbrella, having such a bizarre ride at the park adds something to the overall experience.

As for Icon, its good but thats all. I don't know how or why it gets so many enthusiasts so giddy, I can think of plenty of coasters in this country that are better than it.

 

[roomraider]

I'll just end with the observation that S&S still offer this coaster type and have so far have had no buyers. That sums up the popularity and demand for this coaster type. I'm all for preserving classic coasters for their historical significance and heritage. But if BPB cannot be more selective then it's going to be sink and not swim.

Sorry to be pedantic Technically S&S did have a buyer in HotGo Dreamworld. Even put the footers in but the park died before the ride was installed

 

[emoo]

Pedantry is fine when it's funny.

 

[Sandman]

Said it before somewhere, but I reckon BPB are having a bit of an identity crisis.

On one hand, we have some people who enjoy the traditional/classics, as stated above. On the other hand, are a vast swathe of GP who are always eager for new major investments and will follow where the big new rides go.

A lot of those are the kind of unique rides that made BPB special, regardless of how good they actually are.

I think that this opinion is wholesome, but as business goes, these oldies aren't that much of a selling point anymore. I know some people love them, but the wider public aren't exactly engaged with, say, Big Dipper, Nick Streak etc in the same way as they are Stealth, Wickerman, The Smiler, The Swarm etc. Don't focus too much on what you see in enthusiast and BPB fan groups - they're just echo chambers. So, BPB should care about how good their rides are, either equally or more so than having old rides for the sake of it.

Even if BPB kept all the nostalgic rides listed above, people wouldn't flock to the park for this. If anything, I believe the visitor numbers would dwindle much like they have for every other park in the UK that have lacked new investments. Investment is what drives the numbers.

Ultimately, is BPB a museum or a progressive theme park with a good mixture of heritage and modernity? Look at Liseberg, for example. An amusement park that has steadily and consistently invested in the right areas and is now considered one of the best amusement parks around; certainly in Europe. This wasn't always the case.Lessons should be learnt.

Additionally, comparing the success of yesteryear to today is not entirely fair without looking at other factors, such as opening hours, Blackpool's gradual decline as a resort and a shift in the wider industry as a whole. On top of that, Amanda runs the park rather differently to her father.

The trouble is, I don't think the people at the top really know what 'direction' BPB is going in. Is there even a direction? That's ultimately the core of the problem, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RevolutionRuleZ]

A lot of that I agree with. BPB has seemed confused for some time, BPB/PBB/PBR ect being a good example.

I'm not saying every old ride should be kept indefinitely, again I bring up the Whip. Low ridership and no doubt an arse to source spare parts for, but are those Dodgems really the best use for that space? That's no upgrade.

The coasters however are as good as the maintenance teams make them, are as good as those at the top allow the maintenance teams to make them. The Streak rides brilliant for a 90 year old woodies, yet the National which is 2 years its junior can according to most, hurt like hell, which I think is a rolling stock issue rather than a track or maintenance issue. I have never liked those trains since the day I saw them testing in 2006. The train hit the lift and the entire trains lap bars all closed right down, I remember thinking there goes the ejector airtime and its never been the same since. Question is what should be done? RMC is not an option, space doesn't allow it, and it has no foundations, it's literally built into the sand. Its listed, so removal isn't going to be easy without a fire, so its basically got to carry on, in which case, it would be preferable to replace the trains that are causing the problem with it, then retrack any areas that need it.

 

[rob666]

"On the other hand, are a vast swathe of GP who are always eager for new major investments and will follow where the big new rides go."
So why was Icon such a flop?
Mandy was expecting attendance to double.
It didn't increase at all did it?

 

[Sandman]

"On the other hand, are a vast swathe of GP who are always eager for new major investments and will follow where the big new rides go."
So why was Icon such a flop?
Mandy was expecting attendance to double.
It didn't increase at all did it?

Mandy expects Hot Ice to be internationally renowned and capacity filled though, so we can't base anything on her 'plucked from the air' assertions.

Why was Icon a flop? Various reasons. BPB really do have a phantom marketing team... in that they barely exist or do an effective job. I understand that BPB probably have a limited budget for this, but still.

Come on Rob you madman, you aren't surely suggesting to me that the GP don't want new big rides? Was Big One a flop? Stealth? Nemesis? The Swarm? etc.

Icon is essentially a family thrill coaster that was poorly marketed at best. And even when it did make brief appearances in the right places, it was sold as the next best thing when it clearly isn't/wasn't. It got the Thirteen treatment.

 

[rob666]

I'm not saying the public don't want new rides, though there has been zero public mass interest since '94.
Swarm was a flop, like Icon, apparently.
The GP don't do theme parks like they used to in this country, again, a simple fact.
I'm saying that a shiny new offering does not mean guaranteed success.
Icon being the obvious example...many millions spent for zero increase in punters.

 

[Sandman]

I'm not saying the public don't want new rides, though there has been zero public mass interest since '94.
Swarm was a flop, like Icon, apparently.
The GP don't do theme parks like they used to in this country, again, a simple fact.
I'm saying that a shiny new offering does not mean guaranteed success.
Icon being the obvious example...many millions spent for zero increase in punters.

Nothing is guaranteed of course but simply put, investment beats stagnation 99.9% of the time.

BPB have had ample years of low to no investments and we can all see how that's worked out.

A change of tack is required. This is a business and for it to survive it's going to need to introduce new reasons to persuade people to return.

The oldies are good enough for some nostalgia freaks (I use the term lovingly) but the vast majority of people are fickle and need more. I am unfortunately transitioning into the latter and I say this as somebody who has visited and supported the park throughout my life.

 

[Matt N]

As @Sandman said, I think Icon’s marketing, or lack of it, was a significant reason for its failure. Plenty of people, even those living very near to the park, didn’t know that Blackpool had even built a new ride. In the South West, the one advert I saw for Blackpool Pleasure Beach during 2018 didn’t even mention Icon. If the park don’t tell people that they’ve built a major new ride, people won’t know they’ve built a major new ride, and with this lack of knowledge, what additional reason would guests have had to visit Blackpool Pleasure Beach in 2018 versus the year before?

The other issue I think Icon had is that despite its name, it isn’t an especially attention-grabbing ride, and I’d argue that that was what Blackpool needed after such a long hiatus from coaster building. People have moaned about Merlin’s strategy of everything needing a USP or a “killer image” for years, but I do think that Icon’s failure is arguably proof that there’s something in this. People have said for years that “size isn’t everything” and “gimmicks don’t matter”, but to some extent, I’d argue that Icon might have benefitted from a bit of additional gimmickry and scale. Look at Blackpool’s last big coaster success, The Big One. It broke a world record and can be seen for miles around; it’s almost as much of a visual landmark on the Blackpool skyline as Blackpool Tower itself. With Icon, on the other hand… it didn’t break any notable new ground and you have to really squint to even be able to see it from outside the park, even when you’re stood on the path directly outside it. Icon blends in, and while that’s not necessarily a bad thing, I think a ride that stuck out was more what Blackpool needed at that point in time. While I’m not saying that they necessarily needed to aim for the next Big One, Icon was not a cheap ride, and I think there are numerous more striking rides that the park could have bought for the same amount of money or less.

I vehemently disagree that the public aren’t into theme parks in this country as much as they used to be, or that big investment will always result in failure. Wicker Man was very successful at Alton Towers not all that long ago, and within the decade, The Smiler was also a big success. Swarm’s failure was every bit as multi-faceted as Icon’s was, and was arguably a combined result of the product itself and the circumstances it opened in as opposed to a general falling taste for theme parks among the public, which I don’t think exists.

 

[rob666]

The car parks at the Towers in the late nineties were filled out every day in the summer.
Not any more.
Attendance has dropped over the years at most parks since then.
I can name four locally that closed down, many had had considerable investment...look at Southport before the Thompsons pulled out.
Nobody has said investment will always result in failure, what I said was investment does not guarantee increased custom, as Icon has proved.
And I'm not sure Merlin would agree The Smiler was a big success!

 

[Sandman]

Let's remember though, Towers in the late 90's had better opening hours, a more reasonable price and had 2 brand spanking new B&Ms that were groundbreaking for the UK. On top of that, both were marketed to perfection.

It is quite easy to point at mid/late 90's Towers but it's worth remembering that it's no wonder it was packed back then. It was the park at its peak. Days out were much more affordable, and they were investing in what would be the equivalent of the RMCs and Intamin multi-launchers of today.

Stick Taron and Steel Vengeance in BPB now and let's see how the numbers look

 

[RevolutionRuleZ]

Another hurdle the BPB's marketing has to overcome is the many many people, and you only have to look at social media to see just how many, refuse to accept the entry fee.

Its all well and good putting in new rides, if then 12 year old Joe sees the advert and runs to mummy and daddy full of excitement they say we aren't paying to go in there.

That isnt a problem for Alton, everyone knows you pay to get in, you always have and always will. Look at any post from a third party, a Blackpool page that mentions BPB always gets plenty of people who crawl out of the woodwork saying they won't go in anymore because of the fee.

Much as I love paying 100 for the year, and lapping rides with about 200 other people in the entire park, its not good business sense, and it would be something I'd be on the case to change if I were Nick or any other member of the Thompson family.

 

[rob666]

Nick?
He vanished after the Mouse died.
Hardly seen him on the park since Icon opened.
Everything is down to mandy.

 

[Sandman]

Another hurdle the BPB's marketing has to overcome is the many many people, and you only have to look at social media to see just how many, refuse to accept the entry fee.

Its all well and good putting in new rides, if then 12 year old Joe sees the advert and runs to mummy and daddy full of excitement they say we aren't paying to go in there.

That isnt a problem for Alton, everyone knows you pay to get in, you always have and always will. Look at any post from a third party, a Blackpool page that mentions BPB always gets plenty of people who crawl out of the woodwork saying they won't go in anymore because of the fee.

Much as I love paying 100 for the year, and lapping rides with about 200 other people in the entire park, its not good business sense, and it would be something I'd be on the case to change if I were Nick or any other member of the Thompson family.

I think a reduced entry fee, or free entry for those supervising wristbanded riders is probably necessary.

We can't forget that as lovely and nostalgic as 90's BPB is, it didn't come without a lot of trouble. A lot of boozers (a couple of incidents I remember myself) local knobheads and other riff raff did plague the park and in today's world any of those types of incidents will be plastered all over social media and would not be a good look for the park at all.

Free entry works in some places but Blackpool still hasn't shook off its bad reputation so I think it's good to take precaution especially for the sake of the families spending their hard earned money to enjoy a day out together. They just need to push better deals and provide an actual incentive for people to want to visit.

 

[rob666]

Yup, it needs gated entry.
My mum wouldn't let me go on a Saturday afternoon until she had checked who, and where, Blackpool were playing.
Lots of fun on the Beach after the match.
Only place I have ever had my pocket picked as well.
Used to be no end of trouble on summer weekend nights.

 

[Chris Brown]

Agreed with what’s been said about Icon above. It actually needed that cutting edge marketability that Merlin are often chasing. They needed to go taller, faster or longer, it needed to stand out. The beach needed a big heavy hitter to buck the decline, what they got was a good coaster, but something that should have came 5 years after the big shiny new ride. If I was in charge I’d have rung up Mr RMC and told them to make the big one a giga coaster and in doing so turn that flat first hill into the tallest inversion as a zero g stall. Beat that Merlin.

 

[Ian]

Perhaps it’s in Blackpool’s interest to be slightly different and advertise contrasting things to Merlin. Blackpool is obviously in competition with Merlin (and other) parks, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Merlin pass holders make up a fair number of Blackpool PB visitor numbers. The Merlin pass offers reasonable value and I wouldn’t be surprised if holders make a trip to BPB because they can tack on the Tower, Dungeon, and Tussaud’s.