Universal UK theme park in Bedford

[Nicky Borrill]

Regarding the loading gauge, is it just a particular problem on the lines that the trains would need to run on between HS1/St Pancras and the Bedford area? Because obviously prior to the construction of HS1 to St Pancras Eurostar trains used to run on the old network of British lines with the different loading gauge to Waterloo but was that just because there were no issues of train clearance on those lines?

Since Tonkso isn't around to answer this, I'll say what I've come to understand with my research. But this is all from random google wormholes, so I'm sure a train nerd will be along to correct anything that's wrong (there are plenty here.)

It's true, that the Class 373 ran on slow lines before HS1, but it still does not meet UK loading gauge, it only has a narrower cross section than the European standard which, with adaptations to those slow lines, allowed them to accommodate it. It is not suitable for the Midland Mainline still, without adaptations to the Midland Mainline.

The 373 has also been partially replaced. Some have been reconditioned, but how long they run for now is anybody's guess.

This is what made me ask the question about the potential for new rolling stock that would suit both loading gauges though, it's clearly plausible. And I guess they're keeping some 373's around for the very reason of needing a train that can be diverted to run on the older network, incase they need to carry out major work on the CTRL. (Trains can be diverted onto the old network at both Ebsfleet and Ashford) So eventually they'll need to commision a design for a new Class that can run on both anyway, won't they?

I figured convention center space, like most resorts hotels have.

It's massive, as big as any of the show buildings in footprint, but at least 4 storeys high at the highest part. It could be convention space. It'd be huge for hotel convention space, but not beyond the realms of possibility. It could also just be more hotel rooms on either side, and dining etc in the middle, a departure from their normal "everything in the middle, with check in" layout. Especially on the upper floors, as this would still allow store fronts / catering units on the bottom floor.

But I just think, after reading the wording in that BBC interview, about there being shops and restaurants that can be accessed by non park guests, that this is them. Well this and the other units around that entrance plaza, like the very obvious restaurants opposite.

BTW, you can see here where it says 'Bar' on the side of that building, I realise it's not very clear in the original picture I posted.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

With all this talk of connecting HS1 / CTRL to HS2, maybe they could close this section for a while upgrade it to continental European structure gauge, connecting it to HS2... Problem solved. Looks like they're already doing the groundwork at the junction.




(We're so crap in this country aren't we, I read that they could have been linked from the start, with a purpose built link, adding some future proofing to the network. As it is now, it'll probably never happen, they'll never be linked.)

 

[Wandering Northener]

With all this talk of connecting HS1 / CTRL to HS2, maybe they could close this section for a while upgrade it to continental European structure gauge, connecting it to HS2... Problem solved. Looks like they're already doing the groundwork at the junction.


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(We're so crap in this country aren't we, I read that they could have been linked from the start, with a purpose built link, adding some future proofing to the network. As it is now, it'll probably never happen, they'll never be linked.)

That's the entrance to the HS2 maintenance depot, the none bold section of line is the East West Rail line to Bletchley and has only just been laid.

 

[Tonkso]

So, those old Eurostar trains that used to run through south London will be pushing 40 years old once Universal opens, and the newer Eurostar trains are too wide. That also doesn't mean the old ones will fit on the MML.

None of this solves the capacity issue, or the fact Eurostar trains are 400m long when domestic trains max out at 260m. The power draw on them would require reworking of the whole MML southern section's power infra.

 

[Fleetwood_Mack]

Is the line people are speaking of the one that stops at Millbrook? (I sometimes change at Bedford to get there, as I have a close friend that lives in Marston Moretaine) because I definitely can't imagine that line serving a whole resort! Those ex-underground nightmares have struggled when it's just been me on the train

The Thameslink trains do get uncomfortably crowded in the centre of London sometimes too. However, by the time you've left St. Pancras heading north they're usually empty again (Speaking from my own experience - I travel from Brighton to London, Cambridge and Bedford a lot using them) They can somehow hold an ungodly amount of people, though. I've been at Brighton station on many a summer weekend either travelling in the opposite direction or waiting for friends to come in, and the amount of people that swarm out of these trains is quite a sight to behold. I could be very wrong, but I don't think the St. Pancras to Bedford portion of the route would need much alterations to how it currently runs. From what I've seen it can be a real ghost service.

 

[Wandering Northener]

Is the line people are speaking of the one that stops at Millbrook? (I sometimes change at Bedford to get there, as I have a close friend that lives in Marston Moretaine) because I definitely can't imagine that line serving a whole resort! Those ex-underground nightmares have struggled when it's just been me on the train

The Thameslink trains do get uncomfortably crowded in the centre of London sometimes too. However, by the time you've left St. Pancras heading north they're usually empty again (Speaking from my own experience - I travel from Brighton to London, Cambridge and Bedford a lot using them) They can somehow hold an ungodly amount of people, though. I've been at Brighton station on many a summer weekend either travelling in the opposite direction or waiting for friends to come in, and the amount of people that swarm out of these trains is quite a sight to behold. I could be very wrong, but I don't think the St. Pancras to Bedford portion of the route would need much alterations to how it currently runs. From what I've seen it can be a real ghost service.

No, they're talking of the Thameslink/Midland Mainline, 1,200 people per train I believe is capacity, morning rush hour services heading South are always packed and vice versa, the new station is between Flitwick and Bedford.

The Kempston Hardwick station which has a stop at Millbrook is being discussed to move closer to Stewartby, and serve the theme park entrance.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

So, those old Eurostar trains that used to run through south London will be pushing 40 years old once Universal opens, and the newer Eurostar trains are too wide. That also doesn't mean the old ones will fit on the MML.

None of this solves the capacity issue, or the fact Eurostar trains are 400m long when domestic trains max out at 260m. The power draw on them would require reworking of the whole MML southern section's power infra.

So we've gone from impossible, to impractical?

This is an interesting read Class 373 Test Train to Grantham

 

[Matt N]

Wasn’t one of the key benefits of the Universal project said to be how it would fill trains returning from London in the morning, with park visitors travelling in the opposite direction to the typical London commuter rush?

 

[Nicky Borrill]

That's the entrance to the HS2 maintenance depot, the none bold section of line is the East West Rail line to Bletchley and has only just been laid.

Makes little difference, they’re not going to connect CTRL and HS2 anyway… It’s all gas.