Universal UK theme park in Bedford

[Robbie]

I also think people have been overstating Wicked's popularity and staying power on the basis of there being a long-running musical in London. Shows in London are very often frequented by a largely tourist customer base. London, and the UK, does not have any particular affinity or fondness for Wicked in my opinion.

A Wicked land would basically be The Wizard of Oz, which was first published 125 years ago and has never gone out of print. I think it's fair to say by now that it's quite popular.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Wicked would be a crap theme imo.

Can't really elaborate on that, or justify my opinion... It is just an opinion, Wicked would be rubbish.

I'm not 'excited' by any of the rumoured themes to be honest. LotR is the most exciting, but as mentioned previously, I just can't see it in the concept.

Thankfully, there are people with far more creative vision than me in charge of this project. I'm sure that, if they select a theme, then they will have a vision for it, and it will be outstanding.

 

[Wandering Northener]

Latest update from Bedford Council including discussion on pausing of the new station at Wixams.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

So that's 3 train stations that will be directly connected?

For the locals, is there an advantage to having Milton Keynes station connected by regular buses? Are there trains that stop at MK which won't be able to also stop at either of the Universal stations?

Also, I said from the start that they'll be looking to connect it with Eurostar, and create a way for people to do Disney and Universal, looks like a semi confirmation in here that this is, at least, being looked into.

 

[Graeme]

According to the BBC, this is a century-long plan. Sounds very much like expansions to the first park are planned, then a 2nd gate, then expansions to that one, I'd say.

Mr Thompson insisted that the UK attraction would be the only Universal site in Europe - and not the first of many.

"This is probably our real destination in Europe, and we do expect to draw from all over Europe," he said.

Wow! Can't believe how lucky we are to have got it.

"A country with the population and the tourist visitation of the UK should have probably three of the top 25 theme parks in the world.

"Right now they don't have any - and our smallest park that we operate anywhere in the world draws nine million people.

Ouch!

The company confirmed planning documents would be submitted to the government "in the next couple of months", with construction still targeted to start in 2026.

 

[Tonkso]

All trains that stop at MK will not call at any Universal station, because MK is on the WCML, Bedford is on the MML. Some EWR trains were planned to head up to MK and reverse, I believe, though I don't see how the alignment at Bletchley would allow it.

To access Universal from MK it will require a change at Bletchley, which isn't too bad.

 

[Tonkso]

According to the BBC, this is a century-long plan. Sounds very much like expansions to the first park are planned, then a 2nd gate, then expansions to that one, I'd say.



Wow! Can't believe how lucky we are to have got it.



Ouch!

I think they're a little unfair with that 9m comment, given the local councils have actively nerfed our largest parks for decades. Do these people really think Merlin want to operate short hours and have height, noise and sightline restrictions?

 

[Nicky Borrill]

All trains that stop at MK will not call at any Universal station, because MK is on the WCML, Bedford is on the MML. Some EWR trains were planned to head up to MK and reverse, I believe, though I don't see how the alignment at Bletchley would allow it.

To access Universal from MK it will require a change at Bletchley, which isn't too bad.

That's the nerdiness we needed... I knew CF wouldn't let me down.

I knew Bedford was on the Midland Mainline (Kind of, I think all points beyond Kettering 'currently' require a change?) as that's the one that will benefit us. But I didn't know much about the line on the other side of the park... The 'Marston Vale' line. I thought the Marston Vale was supposed to connect Bedford with MK, which would make a bus redundant, as you'll just switch trains in MK, surely?

Presumably the Eurostar rumour is an extension through St Pancras onto the midland mainline, since they both terminate there already?

 

[Tonkso]

So the Marston Vale Line is the last remnant of the old Varsity Line between Oxford and Cambridge. The line no longer exists between Bedford and Cambridge.
Interchange with the WCML is at Bletchley, the next stop south from Milton Keynes. Fun fact, Bletchley Park was chosen for its wartime role precisely because of its location on the railway halfway between Oxford and Cambridge.

EWR are upgrading the Marston Vale line, and the Oxford to Bletchley line, as well as building a new Bedford-Cambridge line to effectively restore the lost Varsity Line. Unfortunately, Bedford to Cambridge has been built upon in too many key locations, though frustratingly a lot of the alignment does still exist, just not enough.

The project already had a strong business case, but Universal has only strengthened it more. You'll probably find that the trains that will serve the completed route will be longer than they would have been, that would be my guess at least. This all depends on how much of the park traffic is expected to use this route.

Eurostar cannot run on the MML due to gauging. Eurostar trains are built to the European loading gauge (trains are taller and slightly wider) whilst the MML was not. Unfortunately, being the first country to build railways properly, we adopted a slightly smaller loading gauge (not talking track gauge) and kind of stuck to it. This is incidentally why you see double-deck trains on the continent, but not here.

The MML also simply has no capacity to take a Eurostar train. Those commuter Thameslink paths are far too valuable and heavily utilised. Additionally, given the cancellation of the HS2 eastern arm, the MML fast trains (your Nottinghams and your Sheffields) will not be moved to HS2 now, and will remain onnthe MML.

 

[Graeme]

I think they're a little unfair with that 9m comment, given the local councils have actively nerfed our largest parks for decades. Do these people really think Merlin want to operate short hours and have height, noise and sightline restrictions?

Yeah, they certainly have limited our parks to a large extent. Hopefully, he was just being matter-of-fact more than anything. The Top 25 most-attended theme parks tend to be at the huge, planned resorts, like Universal and Disney. Europa Park gets in there at #18 and Efteling is at #22, but other than that it's mostly the huge corporations. Alton is such a nice place and estate, I wouldn't really want it to be as overdeveloped and well-attended as the biggest, resort parks, but there's certainly room for improvement all the same.

 

[roomraider]

So the Marston Vale Line is the last remnant of the old Varsity Line between Oxford and Cambridge. The line no longer exists between Bedford and Cambridge.
Interchange with the WCML is at Bletchley, the next stop south from Milton Keynes. Fun fact, Bletchley Park was chosen for its wartime role precisely because of its location on the railway halfway between Oxford and Cambridge.

EWR are upgrading the Marston Vale line, and the Oxford to Bletchley line, as well as building a new Bedford-Cambridge line to effectively restore the lost Varsity Line. Unfortunately, Bedford to Cambridge has been built upon in too many key locations, though frustratingly a lot of the alignment does still exist, just not enough.

The project already had a strong business case, but Universal has only strengthened it more. You'll probably find that the trains that will serve the completed route will be longer than they would have been, that would be my guess at least. This all depends on how much of the park traffic is expected to use this route.

Eurostar cannot run on the MML due to gauging. Eurostar trains are built to the European loading gauge (trains are taller and slightly wider) whilst the MML was not. Unfortunately, being the first country to build railways properly, we adopted a slightly smaller loading gauge (not talking track gauge) and kind of stuck to it. This is incidentally why you see double-deck trains on the continent, but not here.

The MML also simply has no capacity to take a Eurostar train. Those commuter Thameslink paths are far too valuable and heavily utilised. Additionally, given the cancellation of the HS2 eastern arm, the MML fast trains (your Nottinghams and your Sheffields) will not be moved to HS2 now, and will remain onnthe MML.

Marston Vale is the one with those new retrofitted battery operated trains right? Will be interesting to see how they fare.

Universal and Bletchley Park Weekender sounds right up my street

 

[Nicky Borrill]

So the Marston Vale Line is the last remnant of the old Varsity Line between Oxford and Cambridge. The line no longer exists between Bedford and Cambridge.
Interchange with the WCML is at Bletchley, the next stop south from Milton Keynes. Fun fact, Bletchley Park was chosen for its wartime role precisely because of its location on the railway halfway between Oxford and Cambridge.

EWR are upgrading the Marston Vale line, and the Oxford to Bletchley line, as well as building a new Bedford-Cambridge line to effectively restore the lost Varsity Line. Unfortunately, Bedford to Cambridge has been built upon in too many key locations, though frustratingly a lot of the alignment does still exist, just not enough.

The project already had a strong business case, but Universal has only strengthened it more. You'll probably find that the trains that will serve the completed route will be longer than they would have been, that would be my guess at least. This all depends on how much of the park traffic is expected to use this route.

Eurostar cannot run on the MML due to gauging. Eurostar trains are built to the European loading gauge (trains are taller and slightly wider) whilst the MML was not. Unfortunately, being the first country to build railways properly, we adopted a slightly smaller loading gauge (not talking track gauge) and kind of stuck to it. This is incidentally why you see double-deck trains on the continent, but not here.

The MML also simply has no capacity to take a Eurostar train. Those commuter Thameslink paths are far too valuable and heavily utilised. Additionally, given the cancellation of the HS2 eastern arm, the MML fast trains (your Nottinghams and your Sheffields) will not be moved to HS2 now, and will remain onnthe MML.

So do you think it would be a change at St Pancras from Eurostar onto the MML fast trains? Derby to London takes around 90 minutes on this line with these trains, so would Bedford to London and vica versa be less than half of that if direct? (I read 37 mins on google AI, but that's about as useful as a chocolate teapot.)

In which case, it's not really a rumour is it, it's an inevitability? All it will take is some direct trains between Universal and London added to the schedule, and Eurostar is connected. Although, when you say the MML has no capacity, what do you mean? Would this prevent additional direct trains being added to the schedule also?

 

[Tonkso]

Basically three northbound mainlines out of London are at capacity (the Chiltern out od Marylebone is not), so a scheme to relieve them by moving the non-stop intercity trains on to new tracks where they don't need to share with stopping traffic was devised, this became HS2 (which was always about capacity, not speed). The Bedford-London section of the MML is rammed full with Thameslink and EMR trains. Running more trains is not really possible. Some EMR services which currently call at Bedford will call at Wixams, as well as every Thameslink. Universal travellers from Europe will indeed need to change at St Pancras.

Additionally, Eurostar services require border facilities, something not practical for Wixams.