Universal considering UK theme park in Bedford

[hersheyfan410]

That is a good start, but also this can go wrong.
And don't forget that American Hard Rock park which was dead after less than two years of operation

Not really a fair comparison imo. Universal is owned by the largest telecom/media company in the US (Comcast). As much as I despise them, we all know that NBC Universal has been doing fantastic at managing projects and throwing tons of money into the parks. The same cannot be said of Hard Rock's developers.

 

[The_bullgod]

Not really a fair comparison imo. Universal is owned by the largest telecom/media company in the US (Comcast). As much as I despise them, we all know that NBC Universal has been doing fantastic at managing projects and throwing tons of money into the parks. The same cannot be said of Hard Rock's developers.

Oke, you are right. But I won't forget the London Resort project either.
Original with Paramount included, it could have been up to the level of Universal.

 

[davidm]

^ but Paramount was a license used to drum up investment $$$, Universal are the owners and have the $$$ - that's a pretty major difference.

 

[JoshC.]

The UK is a difficult nut to crack with the theme park market.

Merlin has such a good stronghold on it when it comes to big parks. Paultons / Drayton / Blackpool / Flamingo are all respectfully sized local parks who do a reasonable and steady job within their markets and areas. And you of course have smaller parks too.

But for a big new park to come, they have to compete with Merlin and the idea that's long been ingrained into the British public of going to America or Paris for the big resort style parks of Disney and Orlando. A park which takes a day or two has to compete with Merlin quartet, and with the strength of their Annual Pass, that is difficult. A bigger multi-day resort style-park then competes with people who maybe want to have a 'bigger' holiday, and would want to seize the opportunity to go abroad.
And, of course, the building of a totally new park is very expensive.

I think that's why we haven't seen other theme park companies express interest in the UK until recently (Drayton and Loopings was a recent thing of course).

But it does feel like this has real substantial legs to it. The location is solid. The interest in Universal is still sky-high and will continue to be (as many have pointed out, this has been picked up by media outlets super quick). And altogether, it just feels like this clicks and can work.
This almost sounds obvious to say - naturally a huge company like Universal would plan something which is sensible and could work out. But after the dragged out London Resort and other failures, it's refreshing to see something which feels like it has potential to be a success.


A ground up park of that scale, designed to be open all year round, with big IPs attached and big rides, would send the UK industry into overdrive and be a massive hit.

Fingers crossed, ey?

 

[emoo]

While they are completely different markets, rules and governments to deal with, Universal got it done in China. They should know to come to a foreign country educated and willing to learn. Full on belt and braces to whatever flurry of unexpected challenges come along either baked into laws or whims of the day. Focused of the end goal and determination to have a successful and viable park.

 

[spicy]

But for a big new park to come, they have to compete with Merlin and the idea that's long been ingrained into the British public of going to America or Paris for the big resort style parks of Disney and Orlando. A park which takes a day or two has to compete with Merlin quartet, and with the strength of their Annual Pass, that is difficult. A bigger multi-day resort style-park then competes with people who maybe want to have a 'bigger' holiday, and would want to seize the opportunity to go abroad.
And, of course, the building of a totally new park is very expensive.

I think that's why we haven't seen other theme park companies express interest in the UK until recently (Drayton and Loopings was a recent thing of course).

I agree to an extent however all the UK theme park hotels are always very busy and they aren’t priced cheaply.

Merlin are constantly adding to the resorts, Legoland Woodland Village opens next year which shows how popular they are.

People have their UK staycation at AT/CWoA/Legoland on top of their overseas holidays. That wouldn’t change with this opening.

If anything only having Merlin as the main competition would be encouraging, if there was already a Disney park or even a Warner Bros park here they may see that as too much competition.

Universal parks are such a class above the Merlin ones it should be a home run for them.

I believe AT would be the most affected by this park as I can imagine that the average UK guest that has their annual theme park staycation would choose to go Universal over AT.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

I agree to an extent however all the UK theme park hotels are always very busy and they aren’t priced cheaply.

Merlin are constantly adding to the resorts, Legoland Woodland Village opens next year which shows how popular they are.

People have their UK staycation at AT/CWoA/Legoland on top of their overseas holidays. That wouldn’t change with this opening.

If anything only having Merlin as the main competition would be encouraging, if there was already a Disney park or even a Warner Bros park here they may see that as too much competition.

Universal parks are such a class above the Merlin ones it should be a home run for them.

I believe AT would be the most affected by this park as I can imagine that the average UK guest that has their annual theme park staycation would choose to go Universal over AT.

I think you're right, it's also the hardest to get to for overseas visitors who come over for Universal. Also, you live in Birmingham, do you drive 1 hour 15 mins to Alton Towers, or 1 hour 15 mins to Universal?

On another note... Fun fact (For me at least ) It takes the same time to drive to the site from Derby as it does for somebody driving there from Stratford!!! A lot has been made of how good the location is for access from the capital, but this just shows how good the location is in general.

I read somewhere that over 30 Million people live within a 2 hour drive of the site. No idea of the accuracy, but it wouldn't surprise me. Just look at the map showing which cities and towns are within 2 hours!!! They really couldn't have picked a better location in terms of catchment area and access.

 

[spicy]

Universal Studios explores a potential theme park in U.K. — The Washington Post

Universal’s parent company, Comcast, purchased 480 acres of land in Bedford, England, in August.

apple.news

The Washington Post are reporting that the 480 acres were purchased for $271 million in August.

I believe that’s the first time the cost of the land has been reported?

Shows how invested Universal already are at this point too. That land wasn’t cheap!

Universal sent out this letter to locals on Wednesday:

https://universalukproject.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/UKLocalResidentLetter.pdf

There is also a website now too!

Universal UK Project |

universalukproject.co.uk

 

[Matt N]

The reveal of the land cost seemingly reveals a possibly very interesting detail.

The land purchase costing $271million would infer that the entirety of the $271million in land purchases referred to in Comcast’s financial statement was spent in Bedford… which could possibly pour cold water on the idea that there are other, competing sites that Universal have also bought the land for.

In my view, that would suggest that even if there are competing sites, Universal has taken a particular liking to the site in Bedford compared to those… as if the Comcast financial report and the land cost reported in the Washington Post are anything to go by, it’s the only site that they’ve purchased!

 

[bratcurry]

The land purchase costing $271million would infer that the entirety of the $271million in land purchases referred to in Comcast’s financial statement was spent in Bedford…

This or the Post reporter just falsely assumed the $271 million in land purchases from the financial statement were for this investment and this investment only. Wouldn't surprise me to be fair.

 

[Matt N]

This or the Post reporter just falsely assumed the $271 million in land purchases from the financial statement were for this investment and this investment only. Wouldn't surprise me to be fair.

They said that the Universal spokesperson confirmed the $271m land purchase price in the article, for what it’s worth.

 

[JoshC.]

We have a website: https://universalukproject.co.uk/

And a letter that was sent to local residents

 

[Nicky Borrill]

We have a website: https://universalukproject.co.uk/

And a letter that was sent to local residents

It was shared by @spicy a few posts back Josh... Thanks for sharing though, certainly wouldn't have wanted to miss this news.

 

[Nitefly]

@Matt N

$271 million is an obscene spend for land of this size without planning for the intended purpose.

From the info provided by Parkstop, the northernmost part of the land (above Manor Road) last sold for approximately £11 million plus tax in 2017. So I wouldn’t read too much into the wording of that article.

From my own cheeky snoopings, I can tell you that the 3 parcels of land that make up the site were each subject to different, although blatantly connected, ‘dealings’:

- Westernmost parcel - 6 September (application by law firm 1)
- Middle parcel - 8 September (application by law firm 2)
- Part only of the northernmost parcel although it may be most of it - 7 September (application by law firm 1)

This ties in nicely with contracts for the exchange or charge of land taking place at the same take as the takeover of Cloud Wing UK Limited at the end of August.

For what it’s worth, I would recommend that ‘whoever is supposed to be managing it’ get their confirmation statement in for Cloud Wing UK Limited pronto…

 

[JoshC.]

It was shared by @spicy a few posts back Josh... Thanks for sharing though, certainly wouldn't have wanted to miss this news.

Even on the same page I posted it... I'm clearly very tired!

 

[Nicky Borrill]

@Matt N

$271 million is an obscene spend for land of this size without planning for the intended purpose.

From the info provided by Parkstop, the northernmost part of the land (above Manor Road) last sold for approximately £11 million plus tax in 2017. So I wouldn’t read too much into the wording of that article.

From my own cheeky snoopings, I can tell you that the 3 parcels of land that make up the site were each subject to a different three different ‘dealings’:

- Westernmost parcel - 6 September (application by law firm 1)
- Middle parcel - 7 September (application by law firm 2)
- Part only of the northernmost parcel although it may be most of it - 8 September (application by law firm 1)

This ties in nicely with contracts for the exchange of land taking place at the same take as the takeover of Cloud Wing UK Limited at the end of August.

For what it’s worth, I would recommend that law firm 2 get their confirmation statement in for Cloud Wing UK Limited in pronto…

So how exactly was the land purchase structured? Because initial reports suggested that Cloud Wing owned all of this land, and more, and it was simply transferred upon the purchase of Cloud Wing, but I'm not sure your findings suggest the same? I've never been fortunate enough to run a business that actually owns land / premises, so I'm not really sure how that side everything works, and how to dig deeper on CH.

Even on the same page I posted it... I'm clearly very tired!

I mean, at this stage, for this project, I'd personally rather something was shared 5 times in this thread, than people be worried to share in case it's already been said... I don't know about anybody else?

 

[Matt N]

For what it’s worth, Comcast’s purchase of the land would not be listed, as Comcast purchased the company who owns it rather than explicitly purchasing the land itself.

That purchase could well have cost $271m. If the purchase of a northern part of the site cost £11m in 2017, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the whole lot cost $271m, particularly given the huge inflation of property prices in recent years.

It also says explicitly in the Washington Post article posted by @spicy:

The land was purchased by Universal’s parent company, Comcast Corporation, in August for $271million, a company spokesperson confirmed.

 

[Nitefly]

@Nicky Borrill you quoted me before a couple of my edits

Without true ‘insider knowledge’ it’s not possible to know exactly what all the dealings are before they are registered, but I expect the applications were in connection with charging the land / putting restrictions on the title… other than the middle parcel, because the application on that was for a transfer of whole. Put another way, not all of the ownership of the land was transferred.

For what it’s worth, I’m just relaying information that you can take from certain basic accesses to the Land Registry - I have nothing to do with the deal itself and don’t personally know anyone that does.

 

[Nitefly]

For what it’s worth, Comcast’s purchase of the land would not be listed, as Comcast purchased the company who owns it rather than explicitly purchasing the land itself.

That purchase could well have cost $271m. If the purchase of a northern part of the site cost £11m in 2017, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the whole lot cost $271m, particularly given the huge inflation of property prices in recent years.

I mean… it is literally within the realms of possibility that the value of the company was deemed to be that high, yes, but the portfolio of assets (less debts) plus the value of the business as a going concerns would have to be valued at a quarter of a billion dollars (to Universal). Which is quite a lot…

Just to be clear, the part that supposedly cost £11 million plus tax six years ago* is about half of the size of the entirety of the area that universal is saying is under their development proposals - being the area that is coloured yellow that I’ve also circled in blue below.

*If I’m being absolutely exhaustive, it is ‘literally possible’ that the Land Registry has combined various adjoining titles into the same title number since that £11m purchase… which is not unheard of but it’s often extremely pointless… and it’s far more likely that the title number was created upon first registration (which joined various parcels together). However, the situation on that would require a review of the official copies to figure it out. It’s also ‘literally possible’ that the price recorded on the Land Registry is affected by some land encumbrances that have been resolved - and so on. Really the only way to figure that out is to properly review the title to the land.

Edited in bold to clarify that I was referring the area coloured yellow and circled in blue.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

@Nicky Borrill you quoted me before a couple of my edits

Without true ‘insider knowledge’ it’s not possible to know exactly what all the dealings are before they are registered, but I expect the applications were in connection with charging the land / putting restrictions on the title… other than the middle parcel, because the application on that was for a transfer of whole. Put another way, not all of the ownership of the land was transferred.

For what it’s worth, I’m just relaying information that you can take from certain basic accesses to the Land Registry - I have nothing to do with the deal itself and don’t personally know anyone that does.

Thanks Nitefly, I had assumed you were somehow getting this info from Companies House, I hadn't considered the Land Registry, despite it being the obvious place to look. Mostly because, for some reason, it won't accept my email when I try and register.

The only reason I'm so interested is because the Park Stop video suggested there was other land acquired at the same time as they acquired Cloud Wing, unless I misunderstood. If it is the case I'd love to know where the other land is. (It could also explain the quoted cost Matt references.)