DelPiero
Strata Poster
This is Merlin though, not Universal or Europa
Thorpe Park | Hyperia | Mack Hyper Coaster | 2024
- Thread starter Matt N
- Start date
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- 2024 new coaster thorpe park
Nicky Borrill
Strata Poster
Exactly! Short of adding an offload station, there’s little difference that extra blocks, or a higher theoretical capacity would make… They still wouldn’t be despatching more than a train every minute…This is Merlin though, not Universal or Europa
Matt N
CF Legend
It’s worth remembering that you are forgetting the amount of time a train will be parked in the station for; assuming it takes around 5-10 seconds for a train to leave the station and a new one to take its place, then that leaves 50-55 seconds for a train to be parked for; they’d have to be very quick to have a train parked for that little time. As a result, if the park time for a train is any longer than that, then the ride time will be longer than 60 seconds (due to brake run stacking) and the rate of dispatch will be less frequent than a train every minute.
EDIT: Ah, sorry; I’ve only just realised you’re talking about the maximum throughput being a train every minute… ignore what I just said, then!
EDIT: Ah, sorry; I’ve only just realised you’re talking about the maximum throughput being a train every minute… ignore what I just said, then!
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Snurt2theHark
Roller Poster
The first team trained on rides usually get trained by the manufacturer themselves, so when it opens it'll be operated similarly to how Mack/Europa operate their rides when it opens (but obviously they won't be able to manually override blocks like on Blue Fire), operations tend to get longer overtime as the park staff train each other and operation procedures changing (like Icon's seatbelts).
Nicky Borrill
Strata Poster
Just to clarify…
My point was that Merlin are unlikely to be despatching trains more quickly than 1 per minute, unless they have a separate offload station.
The time from Despatch to brakes is around a minute, so the earliest they can despatch another train would be 1 minute (when the previous train hits the brake block.)
Of course, if they use the lift as a block, which is likely, they ‘can’ despatch earlier, but as pointed out already by myself and others, they’re unlikely to achieve that as it would mean sub 60 second despatches, and it’s ‘Merlin.’
Therefore, without an offload station to speed up despatches then more trains or blocks (on this layout, since a mid course doesn’t look possible) would just lead to more stacking, not higher throughput.
Hope that makes more sense.
My point was that Merlin are unlikely to be despatching trains more quickly than 1 per minute, unless they have a separate offload station.
The time from Despatch to brakes is around a minute, so the earliest they can despatch another train would be 1 minute (when the previous train hits the brake block.)
Of course, if they use the lift as a block, which is likely, they ‘can’ despatch earlier, but as pointed out already by myself and others, they’re unlikely to achieve that as it would mean sub 60 second despatches, and it’s ‘Merlin.’
Therefore, without an offload station to speed up despatches then more trains or blocks (on this layout, since a mid course doesn’t look possible) would just lead to more stacking, not higher throughput.
Hope that makes more sense.
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The plans do not appear to have a separate offload Plattform, and as it is Merlin, it would surprise me if they decide to go for sub 60 second dispatches. That is IF they don’t go for 2 or 3 car trains, which I wouldn’t necessarily rule out. Smaller trains loose more speed and can navigate tighter turns.
2 trains with 5 or 6 cars each are probably the most realistic.
2 trains with 5 or 6 cars each are probably the most realistic.
Matt N
CF Legend
On a side note; assuming this is a Mack Hyper, anyone concerned about it potentially having OTSRs (I have heard people elsewhere with this concern) is in luck. According to the HyperCoaster’s product page on Mack’s website, one of the key selling points is, and I quote, “no shoulder restraints”: https://mack-rides.com/products/rollercoaster/hyper-coaster/
Given that Mack actually sells the lack of OTSRs as a key USP, I’d say that gives us a fair chance of this having Mack’s lovely overhead lap bars like all the other thrilling Macks!
Given that Mack actually sells the lack of OTSRs as a key USP, I’d say that gives us a fair chance of this having Mack’s lovely overhead lap bars like all the other thrilling Macks!
Doublethink
Roller Poster
If kärnan can get away with clamshells I imagine this will be fine with a Mack lapbar
Project LC
Roller Poster
Merlin Entertainments seem to specify OTSRs on their coasters. I would not be surprised if they ask the manufacturer (highly likely to be mack) to add over the shoulder to the trains.
I think the twist on the drop will take away from it to be honest. All the hypers+ I've done a twist on the drop usually feels uncomfortable. The worst offender being that twist on top thrill dragster. I just don't think exodus has a tall enough drop for a slow/smooth 180 degree turn.
I think the twist on the drop will take away from it to be honest. All the hypers+ I've done a twist on the drop usually feels uncomfortable. The worst offender being that twist on top thrill dragster. I just don't think exodus has a tall enough drop for a slow/smooth 180 degree turn.
Doublethink
Roller Poster
Have they insisted on OTSRs on any coaster since the smiler? Modern lapbars are proven on inverting coasters these days and we already have them on icon so they aren't even a new concept to the UK. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the OTSR system on smiler would have been more difficult to release than a lap bar system in the smiler accident
Coasterfreck
Mega Poster
If you look at all the majour coasters that Merlin have built from scratch in the last 10 years most have been from a B&M that does OTSRs as a normal restraint on their dives and wings with the exception of Smiler, Wicker Man.
Smiler being the first infinity coaster to open (followed by Karacho that year), I’m sure Merlin/Towers didn’t want the added risk of new restraints on a new coaster model, when they had the option for the restraints that Saw and other EuroFighters at that time used.
If this coaster is a Mack, these trains have been in use since Blue Fire opened in 2009, and as they are a tried and tested restraint, which are currently in use on approximately 25 coasters they’ve manufactured, which would lower the risk factor for Thorpe and Merlin, so I can’t see this attraction having OTSRs.
Smiler being the first infinity coaster to open (followed by Karacho that year), I’m sure Merlin/Towers didn’t want the added risk of new restraints on a new coaster model, when they had the option for the restraints that Saw and other EuroFighters at that time used.
If this coaster is a Mack, these trains have been in use since Blue Fire opened in 2009, and as they are a tried and tested restraint, which are currently in use on approximately 25 coasters they’ve manufactured, which would lower the risk factor for Thorpe and Merlin, so I can’t see this attraction having OTSRs.
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Doublethink
Roller Poster
I will also add that the level of ejector on the proposed elements on this ride would slam your shoulders into any OTSR and make the ride experience extremely uncomfortable- a lot of the reason we are now getting theses extreme elements in the industry is the move towards lapbars on inverting and extreme coasters
JoshC.
Strata Poster
I believe that there were some conversations about Smiler have the clamshell like restraints. I seem to recall some rumours, though, that they were quoted a lower throughput number from Gerstlauer if they were to use them over OTSR, which was an off-putting reason. Could be BS of course.
However, and forgive the morbid playing of devil's advocate, one can only imagine how different the Smiler incident would have been if the ride didn't have OTSRs. And one can only wonder at this point how much, if any, bearing that is having on Merlin's newer investments in extreme rides.
However, and forgive the morbid playing of devil's advocate, one can only imagine how different the Smiler incident would have been if the ride didn't have OTSRs. And one can only wonder at this point how much, if any, bearing that is having on Merlin's newer investments in extreme rides.
spicy
Giga Poster
Oh god, I have never even considered that before.
I think we could definitely see OTSRs here with Merlin wanting to be extra cautious.
Matt N
CF Legend
Why would the clamshells give a throughput any lower than the OTSRs, out of interest? Surely they’re some of the easiest restraints to get a throughput out of if they’re anything like B&M’s, as they literally just require pulling a bar down?
I guess that’s no different to the OTSRs in Gerst’s case, though…
toofpikk
Mega Poster
Not only this, but I'm sure at one of the Q&A's Wardley/Varney has done with nerds over the years, the question of restraints on the smiler came up, and there was chatter about the perception of the UK GP and lap-bars being associated with more tame rides. Having no OSTR styled harness would dissuade guests from going on bigger rides due to fears of it being 'unsafe'.
Doublethink
Roller Poster
I think the opposite- OTSRs would be far more difficult to release in case of emergency due to the location of the hydrolics and large plastic structure over the riders shoulders - if it was a gerst clamshell or Mack/intamin you could jaws of life though the main metal armature which pins the restraint in place to release it. From what I remember of the smiler incident a lot of issues were caused due to the riders bring pinned in place by the restraints for so long
JoshC.
Strata Poster
As I say, it could be total rubbish, or something I'm mis-remembering.
I guess a reason could be that the locking and resetting of them is different compared to the OTSRs, and over the period of an hour, that has can cause changes.
It might not have been something from Gerstlauer either, maybe it was Towers/Merlin anticipating a lower throughput because they would have to reassure guests the ride was safe more often.
FistedColossus
Hyper Poster
Was doing a ghost walk down the train track which was an upcharge one year at Fright Nights (2008ish?). The guide was halfway through a spooky story when there was some rustling in the bush. Sadly it wasn't a ghost, it was a couple of travellers who clumsily hopped the fence, thudded to the ground and ran past us laughing.
Killed the atmosphere somewhat.
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