The Return of Nemesis Sub Terra?
- Thread starter Serena
- Start date
Matt N
CF Legend
Hi guys. As many of you probably know, Nemesis at Alton Towers is getting retracked; it will be closed next year in preparation for a 2024 reopening. But in recent days, another Nemesis-related entity has had rumours surrounding it… Nemesis Sub-Terra, the Nemesis-themed ABC drop tower dark ride located right next to it. This opened in 2012, and hasn’t operated since 2015.
However, considerable rumours have been swirling in recent days about the potential of it reopening in 2023, as a potential marketing tool to hype up the Nemesis retrack as well as to ease the burden on Galactica & The Blade while Nemesis is out of action.
Now I hear what you’re all saying; “This rumour has reared its head practically every year since the ride closed. What makes it any more likely to happen this time?”. That is a valid point, in fairness, but there seems to be a bit more weight behind this rumour at the moment, as well as various reasons why it would make a lot of sense.
Recently, there has been quite a bit of work going on in and around the Sub-Terra area. The doors to the building have been open, alarms have been tested, the queue line has been cleared... a fair bit's been going on. In fairness, some of this has gone on in previous years as well, so I can understand scepticism, but the ride does seem to have had an irregularly high amount of work going on around it lately. However... one key thing has now happened that has not happened in any previous year, and that's that they are removing a significant amount of the wood panels from the queue line, which could indicate that they are planning to replace them... which would heavily hint towards it being used again in some capacity. DanJB from TowersStreet Talk shared these photos:
Source: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-sub-terra.4452/page-36#post-382319
Given that they've done next to nothing to Sub-Terra's building since it closed in 2015, I think the fact that they're suddenly ripping out loads of wooden boards is quite a telling sign that they're planning to do something or other with it. If they're ripping stuff out now without an intention to use the building, why would they not have done it at some other point in the last 7 years?
That isn't the only indication, though... with the closure of Nemesis now announced, Alton Towers have suddenly started making a big deal about The Phalanx. The signs around the park advertising Nemesis' closure are supposedly "by order of The Phalanx", and the staff on Nemesis are now wearing boiler suits with the Phalanx logo on them. It should be noted that The Phalanx were never really a part of Nemesis' story until Sub-Terra... could the park's sudden emphasis upon The Phalanx be an indicator that Sub-Terra is making a return?
I should also note that Jb85 on TowersStreet Talk, who works for a local lighting company who have supplied Alton Towers before, has claimed that Alton Towers has requested their services once again for a 2023 project... in the Sub-Terra building:
There are also various sources hinting towards a return of the ride next year... the staff are supposedly telling people that Sub-Terra is due to return, various people in the know are hinting towards it and YouTubers, including Theme Park Worldwide, have started making videos about the possibility of it returning.
Now I'm not saying that YouTubers are to be taken as gospel by any stretch, but for what it's worth, Shawn made a video about Duel potentially getting a revamp earlier this year when the evidence pointing towards such a thing was still pretty spurious (probably less concrete than what we're seeing here, as there was neither visible construction nor potentially relevant park teasers), and even though people at the time dismissed it as him simply "stirring the pot on a slow news day", he was actually proven correct when the ride closed a few months later. Now he could well have just been adding 2 and 2 and happened to be correct by coincidence, but given that he worked at Alton Towers for 7 years, lives in the local area and is friendly with many Alton Towers employees, I don't think it's inconceivable to suggest that he might have inside sources. Here's TPW's video:
Another YouTuber, Lift Hills and Thrills, made a video "confirming" that Sub-Terra was returning in 2023. Now I'd take this with a pinch of salt without official park confirmation, but for what it's worth, this person did talk about the Nemesis retrack a year before it was announced (as he reminds us of in the comments), and he said something that I thought was a very intriguing comment to make if he didn't know something... he said that "the capacity of the drop towers may be reduced". Now I don't know about you, but I thought this was a bizarrely specific thing to pick up on if he hadn't genuinely been told something. The speaker also hints that the ride "won't be the same Sub Terra we previously knew"... here's his video:
(Go to 3:11 to hear about the capacity comment)
So that's the evidence we have to suggest Nemesis Sub-Terra could be reopening next season. I don't know about you, but I think that that's pretty solid evidence; there's both concrete evidence (the work), and a fair bit of smoke rumours-wise, and as they always say, there's no smoke without fire.
Personally, I'm pretty confident that we could be seeing Sub-Terra return in some form next season. The rumour mill is spinning significantly more than it has been in previous years, not to mention that there is also a fair amount of concrete evidence (work taking place inside the building, the sprucing up, and the recent hefty removal of queue line wood), as well as possible hints from the park themselves (why have Alton Towers suddenly made The Phalanx such a big thing on Nemesis?). Not to mention that I think it would make an awful lot of sense; that area of the park could use some support capacity-wise without Nemesis, and I also think that Sub-Terra reopening could be quite an effective marketing tool for the retrack.
But what do you guys reckon?
TL;DR Rumours are swirling that Nemesis Sub-Terra could be reopening in 2023. This is because:
However, considerable rumours have been swirling in recent days about the potential of it reopening in 2023, as a potential marketing tool to hype up the Nemesis retrack as well as to ease the burden on Galactica & The Blade while Nemesis is out of action.
Now I hear what you’re all saying; “This rumour has reared its head practically every year since the ride closed. What makes it any more likely to happen this time?”. That is a valid point, in fairness, but there seems to be a bit more weight behind this rumour at the moment, as well as various reasons why it would make a lot of sense.
Recently, there has been quite a bit of work going on in and around the Sub-Terra area. The doors to the building have been open, alarms have been tested, the queue line has been cleared... a fair bit's been going on. In fairness, some of this has gone on in previous years as well, so I can understand scepticism, but the ride does seem to have had an irregularly high amount of work going on around it lately. However... one key thing has now happened that has not happened in any previous year, and that's that they are removing a significant amount of the wood panels from the queue line, which could indicate that they are planning to replace them... which would heavily hint towards it being used again in some capacity. DanJB from TowersStreet Talk shared these photos:
Source: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-sub-terra.4452/page-36#post-382319
Given that they've done next to nothing to Sub-Terra's building since it closed in 2015, I think the fact that they're suddenly ripping out loads of wooden boards is quite a telling sign that they're planning to do something or other with it. If they're ripping stuff out now without an intention to use the building, why would they not have done it at some other point in the last 7 years?
That isn't the only indication, though... with the closure of Nemesis now announced, Alton Towers have suddenly started making a big deal about The Phalanx. The signs around the park advertising Nemesis' closure are supposedly "by order of The Phalanx", and the staff on Nemesis are now wearing boiler suits with the Phalanx logo on them. It should be noted that The Phalanx were never really a part of Nemesis' story until Sub-Terra... could the park's sudden emphasis upon The Phalanx be an indicator that Sub-Terra is making a return?
I should also note that Jb85 on TowersStreet Talk, who works for a local lighting company who have supplied Alton Towers before, has claimed that Alton Towers has requested their services once again for a 2023 project... in the Sub-Terra building:
Source: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-sub-terra.4452/page-29#post-378308
There are also various sources hinting towards a return of the ride next year... the staff are supposedly telling people that Sub-Terra is due to return, various people in the know are hinting towards it and YouTubers, including Theme Park Worldwide, have started making videos about the possibility of it returning.
Now I'm not saying that YouTubers are to be taken as gospel by any stretch, but for what it's worth, Shawn made a video about Duel potentially getting a revamp earlier this year when the evidence pointing towards such a thing was still pretty spurious (probably less concrete than what we're seeing here, as there was neither visible construction nor potentially relevant park teasers), and even though people at the time dismissed it as him simply "stirring the pot on a slow news day", he was actually proven correct when the ride closed a few months later. Now he could well have just been adding 2 and 2 and happened to be correct by coincidence, but given that he worked at Alton Towers for 7 years, lives in the local area and is friendly with many Alton Towers employees, I don't think it's inconceivable to suggest that he might have inside sources. Here's TPW's video:
Another YouTuber, Lift Hills and Thrills, made a video "confirming" that Sub-Terra was returning in 2023. Now I'd take this with a pinch of salt without official park confirmation, but for what it's worth, this person did talk about the Nemesis retrack a year before it was announced (as he reminds us of in the comments), and he said something that I thought was a very intriguing comment to make if he didn't know something... he said that "the capacity of the drop towers may be reduced". Now I don't know about you, but I thought this was a bizarrely specific thing to pick up on if he hadn't genuinely been told something. The speaker also hints that the ride "won't be the same Sub Terra we previously knew"... here's his video:
So that's the evidence we have to suggest Nemesis Sub-Terra could be reopening next season. I don't know about you, but I think that that's pretty solid evidence; there's both concrete evidence (the work), and a fair bit of smoke rumours-wise, and as they always say, there's no smoke without fire.
Personally, I'm pretty confident that we could be seeing Sub-Terra return in some form next season. The rumour mill is spinning significantly more than it has been in previous years, not to mention that there is also a fair amount of concrete evidence (work taking place inside the building, the sprucing up, and the recent hefty removal of queue line wood), as well as possible hints from the park themselves (why have Alton Towers suddenly made The Phalanx such a big thing on Nemesis?). Not to mention that I think it would make an awful lot of sense; that area of the park could use some support capacity-wise without Nemesis, and I also think that Sub-Terra reopening could be quite an effective marketing tool for the retrack.
But what do you guys reckon?
TL;DR Rumours are swirling that Nemesis Sub-Terra could be reopening in 2023. This is because:
- Significant work has been taking place in and around the building, including the recent removal of a fair amount of queue line wood.
- The park have suddenly made a lot of references to The Phalanx (a key part of Sub-Terra) around Nemesis.
- There are many sources, including park staff, suggesting that the ride could be reopening next season.
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Matt N
CF Legend
I know this rumour has been seen plenty of times before, but this is the first time we've seen what could be construed as the park dropping subtle hints (what's with the sudden focus on the Phalanx on Nemesis and in all the Nemesis closure promotional material?), as well as the first time we've seen proper construction taking place outside the building (removing a substantial amount of queue line wood certainly hasn't happened in past years, and it would typically imply that the park intends to use the space in some capacity). Not to mention that it would make tons of sense as a way to both prop up Forbidden Valley's capacity and drum up hype for Nemesis' reopening in 2024.
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Lori Marie Loud
Giga Poster
No I was pointing out there was already a thread on this topic.
Matt N
CF Legend
Ah, sorry... I misinterpreted you there.
Mods, am I OK to keep this in a separate thread given that there's been some new evidence since that thread from 2021 as well as a new angle of discussion (the Nemesis retrack), or does it need merging with that thread?
I apologise... I forgot that there was already a thread on this topic. I did admittedly wonder whether there was one given the past occurrences of this rumour, but I thought that we could use a new one if there was what with this being a new year and there being new potential evidence and a whole new angle of discussion what with the Nemesis retrack and all. I apologise if I'm wrong there, though.
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Matt N
CF Legend
Sorry to double post, but I have an update... as per TowersStreet Facebook, construction fences have also now been put up around the building:
www.facebook.com
I don't know about any of you, but to me, this certainly implies that something is happening...
TowersStreet
There’s a hive of activity around the Nemesis Sub-Terra site today, with construction fencing now added around the ride, elsewhere all the rotten queue line wood is being ripped up. (Thanks to...
www.facebook.com
I don't know about any of you, but to me, this certainly implies that something is happening...
Crazycoaster
Giga Poster
I mean.. yay I guess? Subterra was pretty lame as a ride. It doesn’t particularly merit rerides once you’ve done it once.
Side note/pet peeve; I always hated how the queueline video showed Phalanx helicoptering in a piece of track as if the track is what ‘pins the creature down’. The track is supposed to be part of the monster, and the coaster supports are what pin it down. Jeez get your own lore right Alton Towers
Side note/pet peeve; I always hated how the queueline video showed Phalanx helicoptering in a piece of track as if the track is what ‘pins the creature down’. The track is supposed to be part of the monster, and the coaster supports are what pin it down. Jeez get your own lore right Alton Towers
Lofty
CF Legend
I'm quite happy about this - I liked Sub Terra for what it was. It filled a few minutes and gave a little thrill. There was a lot of bug bears about it - mainly the am dram ride hosts that thought shouting at you was a great way to convey the story (it's not!). But let's see what happens!
Joelpagett
Mega Poster
I personally loved Sub-Terra and it makes sense to give some capacity in that area of the park when Nemesis is closed. It wouldn't take to much effort to tweak the storyline and have it run for a couple of years whilst the hype around Nemesis is still there.
It certainly looks credible with all the recent work going on, as we all tend to know, if M£rlin mothball a ride, it just sits there until it basically falls down, so they wouldn't start randomly installing a new queue line if it wasn't going to open.
It certainly looks credible with all the recent work going on, as we all tend to know, if M£rlin mothball a ride, it just sits there until it basically falls down, so they wouldn't start randomly installing a new queue line if it wasn't going to open.
Matt N
CF Legend
I have an update; all of the wooden boards from Sub-Terra’s queue line are now gone:
Given that the frame underneath appears to have been carefully retained, I reckon that this is a strong indication that those wooden boards will be replaced, in preparation for some kind of Sub-Terra reopening next year…
Given that the frame underneath appears to have been carefully retained, I reckon that this is a strong indication that those wooden boards will be replaced, in preparation for some kind of Sub-Terra reopening next year…
Matt N
CF Legend
According to Skyscraper on TowersStreet, they've blocked off paths near to Sub Terra with "Danger: Hazardous Materials" signs:
Source: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-general-discussion.5260/page-101#post-386326
To me, that possibly drops the strongest hint yet that something is likely to be happening with Sub-Terra for next year...
EDIT: False alarm... apparently it was just someone reusing a construction picture from 2011.
Source: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-general-discussion.5260/page-101#post-386326
To me, that possibly drops the strongest hint yet that something is likely to be happening with Sub-Terra for next year...
EDIT: False alarm... apparently it was just someone reusing a construction picture from 2011.
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spicy
Giga Poster
Matt N
CF Legend
On the topic of Sub-Terra, I think this video that Alton Towers themselves posted is an interesting watch that could potentially be hinting towards a Sub-Terra return of some sort:
I know it talks about Nemesis, but the bits about “new head of the Phalanx John Dalton” and “reports of inside corruption” definitely seem like they could be hinting towards some sort of new storyline and rebirth for what was Sub-Terra.
I also found the “there’s more to this story than meets the eye” intriguing…
What do you guys reckon?
I know it talks about Nemesis, but the bits about “new head of the Phalanx John Dalton” and “reports of inside corruption” definitely seem like they could be hinting towards some sort of new storyline and rebirth for what was Sub-Terra.
I also found the “there’s more to this story than meets the eye” intriguing…
What do you guys reckon?
Matt N
CF Legend
The plot thickens... aerial photos taken recently suggest that Sub-Terra is currently a hive of activity, and a local engineer has promoted that they are working on the ride on Twitter:
Interestingly, the photos show that a new queue line is being built on top of the old boards... which would certainly suggest that the building is being reused, in my eyes.
It should also be noted that this engineer referred to the ride as "Nemesis Sub-Terra", for what it's worth...
Interestingly, the photos show that a new queue line is being built on top of the old boards... which would certainly suggest that the building is being reused, in my eyes.
It should also be noted that this engineer referred to the ride as "Nemesis Sub-Terra", for what it's worth...
Matt N
CF Legend
An interesting drone shot has been captured by Danny from TowersStreet Talk that confirms that new queue line is indeed being installed, and that quite a bit of construction is going on in the area:
Interestingly, they also seem to have covered the Phalanx tank outside the building with tarpaulin...
I think this is a pretty strong sign that Sub-Terra is likely to be reopening in some form, personally!
Here's Danny's original post on TowersStreet, if you'd like to view it: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-sub-terra.4452/page-49#post-390995
Interestingly, they also seem to have covered the Phalanx tank outside the building with tarpaulin...
I think this is a pretty strong sign that Sub-Terra is likely to be reopening in some form, personally!
Here's Danny's original post on TowersStreet, if you'd like to view it: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-sub-terra.4452/page-49#post-390995
Archie
Mega Poster
if it were to reopen i doubt it would be as N-ST because that name already has a pretty negative reception, and this would also be the ideal "merlin moment" to market a newish ride, re themed at leastAn interesting drone shot has been captured by Danny from TowersStreet Talk that confirms that new queue line is indeed being installed, and that quite a bit of construction is going on in the area:
Interestingly, they also seem to have covered the Phalanx tank outside the building with tarpaulin...
I think this is a pretty strong sign that Sub-Terra is likely to be reopening in some form, personally!
Here's Danny's original post on TowersStreet, if you'd like to view it: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/nemesis-sub-terra.4452/page-49#post-390995