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Mitch Hawker's Polls (Steel Results - Page 7!)

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Well it does have consistent air-time on the return to the station like Phoenix does on it's final stretch & it also has ejector air-time like the Wild Bull, plus the mix of Beast & Ravine Flyer that you agree with, so I don't think I'm that far off. :wink:

Edit: Sorry Gavin, thought your post was directed at mine. :lol:
 
Hm, maybe I'd love it if it rides like Ravine Flyer with epic tree time.

Phoenix... I just don't get it, I really don't. It is very good, but when you're talking about rides THIS good (Toro, Ravine Flyer, Voyage) you have to be really critical, and Phoenix pleasure/pain ratio just doesn't work with me. I can't say I get the appreciation of that park either, same with Waldameer... I mean, really, besides Ravine Flyer and Phoenix, there is no reason what so ever to go to those parks.

Kyle and Dillon disagreed with me though, and both loved Phoenix and Knoebels in general. Waldameer is in a cool location, and we left the park for lunch and drove up the beach for a bit before coming back to ride RF again.

Toro doesn't do anything wrong. It's, in a way, too perfect... to the point where it's boring to talk about. I can't quite fathom how anything could better it, unless BD is being "interesting" on top of being very (but not as good as Toro) good, because Toro does fail at being interesting.

Lack of Lightning Racer on the list makes the opinion of the masses untrustworthy.
 
Lighting Racer is a brilliant ride Joey, it's superb fun, but it's not a "great coaster" in the traditional sense. It lacks air time, it lacks high forces, i lacks scary drops and it lacks real speed.

It's packed to the brim with fun though and brilliant for that, but it's like comparing a Peugeot 205 GTi to a Bugatti Veyron. Yeah, the smaller and cheaper car is brilliant fun, but it just doesn't have the clinching edge of the bigger beast (and I assume that you think El Toro is better than Lightning Racer?)

Boulder Dash has the fun of Lightning Racer, but it then has all the other elements chucked in there on top too. It's got the speed and the air time. It's got the character of dashing left when it should be heading right and the like. You're constantly kept on your toes while all the time it throwing all the best coaster elements at you.

I loved El Toro, it's so exhilarating, but I don't think it ever brought about such a kind of core "joy" that Boulder Dash managed to raise. It just didn't make me smile and laugh and have fun. It was all very "oooh, I could loved the way the run up to that precise parabolic hill gave precisely 1.2 seconds of controlled -1.3 G". Brilliant stuff, but almost clinical. Boulder Dash doesn't care, it just says "sit back and enjoy".
 
furie said:
Lighting Racer is a brilliant ride Joey, it's superb fun, but it's not a "great coaster" in the traditional sense. It lacks air time, it lacks high forces, i lacks scary drops and it lacks real speed.

It's packed to the brim with fun though and brilliant for that, but it's like comparing a Peugeot 205 GTi to a Bugatti Veyron. Yeah, the smaller and cheaper car is brilliant fun, but it just doesn't have the clinching edge of the bigger beast (and I assume that you think El Toro is better than Lightning Racer?)

Boulder Dash has the fun of Lightning Racer, but it then has all the other elements chucked in there on top too. It's got the speed and the air time. It's got the character of dashing left when it should be heading right and the like. You're constantly kept on your toes while all the time it throwing all the best coaster elements at you.

I loved El Toro, it's so exhilarating, but I don't think it ever brought about such a kind of core "joy" that Boulder Dash managed to raise. It just didn't make me smile and laugh and have fun. It was all very "oooh, I could loved the way the run up to that precise parabolic hill gave precisely 1.2 seconds of controlled -1.3 G". Brilliant stuff, but almost clinical. Boulder Dash doesn't care, it just says "sit back and enjoy".
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Yup. Your last paragraph sums up my thoughts of Toro exactly.

The problem is people act as if sheer joy doesn't have a place in the coaster connoisseur, and then introduce it willy nilly when something tickles their fancy (usually in a nostalgic way, but often blowing lesser ridden rides out of proportion. It explains why certain coasters, like Nemesis, have slowly been dipping in the poll as more people from oversees come and realise that, actually, not that amazing.). This is why I dislike rating things in the first place, and would rather discuss it.

The problem with "sheer joy" is that it's even less objective than the criteria we use to rate those "awesome" coasters. And then along comes Ben, confusing things by thinking Toro "dies" mid way... Maybe he went unconscious mid ride or something. Toro's most ferocious, and the only part of it with character, are those dancing turns towards the end. Love you Ben, but wtf. :p

Personally, I'd rather rate things however just feels right. Lightning Racer has, for me, more good points than Phoenix and, given the choice now, I'd ride Racer. So it goes above it. It's that simple.
 
Mike wrote:
Evel Knievel seems a bit high too though.
-
Fail! I thought it was ranked too low tbh. It's definitely better than Raven or Shivering Timbers.
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It was riding pretty pathetically really on the day I went there, not to mention that that day was the hottest I've EVER experienced, anywhere, in my life!
Even if there was good riding conditions, I still don't think the ride would get anywhere near Prowler or Renegade though!

Edit: Looking at how I voted, I put Raven at 23, and Evel at 24, so meh...

As for how the top spot should go, I wasn't a huge fan of El Toro to be honest, although, again, apparently it "wasn't riding well" on the day I went, and was "riding much better" on the extra day some people had there on that trip. However, because I can only judge on the time I rode it, Boulder Dash was A LOT better for me!
 
^It was riding better that second day, yeah, but, it was STILL nowhere near Boulder Dash. Or Colossos, which is the same but doesn't DIE after two hills... Or Phoenix... Troy... RFII...
 
So Ben, is El Toro to you like Phoenix to me? Amazing, but not AS amazing as the other amazing ones? Or do you genuinely think it's poor? I can't work you out.
 
I'm not sure I'd go as far as "amazing" because it has no soul whatsoever, so I'd have to just go with very good.

You need soul. KFC has taught us all that.
 
Joey said:
If BD is amazing and everyone thinks it's better than Toro, why isn't it at #1?
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Taking a closer look at the rankings, here is the ridership of the top 3 coasters:

1. El Toro 220
2. T Express 21
3. Boulder Dash 141

So the reason for Boulder Dash's lower ranking is not having enough ridership compared to El Toro, nor enough "influence" as the riders on T Express. The more roller coasters you ride, the more your vote counts with Mitch's algorithm.

So, in reality, Boulder Dash IS most likely 2nd/tied for 1st. There is just some inaccuracy because of the way votes are weighed.
 
Yeah, it's a funny thing, but Matt is right. Mitch's poll should work more accurately because those with more coasters under their belt have a higher influence on the way the poll works.

Of course, those with a higher count should also recognise which are the best coasters out of the top three ;)

But yeah, if somebody has been on a thousand coasters but not Boulder Dash and puts T-Express at the top, it means T-Express gets +1000 in its favour (I think)..?
 
I never said otherwise, I meant how many people who'd ridden Toro and BD preferred BD...? Not... what Matt said.

But, the problem with the whole "people who've ridden more get more weight" thing is the phenomenon of lesser ridden coasters getting weird votes because of heard-like behaviour...

Anyone remember how high Knightmare was the year before it opened in the UK?

Not that there is a better way of doing this, but if more enthusiasts grew a brain and thought for themselves, behaving more like they do on CF, maybe Toro wouldn't be first and BD would be.
 
The top ten IMHO;

1. El Toro - SFGAd (tie) - excellent coaster, you can't complain about it
1. T Express - Everland (tie) - no idea, never ridden it
3. Boulder Dash - Lake Compounce - no idea, never ridden it
4. Phoenix - Knoebel's - can't say I was that impressed, good enough, not outstanding though
5. Ravine Flyer II - Waldameer - no idea, never ridden it
6. The Voyage - Holiday World - excellent coaster, you can't complain about it
7. Balder - Liseberg - no idea, never ridden it
8. Colossos - Heide Park - excellent coaster, you can't complain about it
9. Aska (S) - Nara Dreamland - no idea, never ridden it (seen it though SBNO)
10. Fireball - Happy Valley Song - no idea, never ridden it

i.e. either TOP RIDE, no opinion or WTF is that with Phoenix?

--

furie said:
But yeah, if somebody has been on a thousand coasters but not Boulder Dash and puts T-Express at the top, it means T-Express gets +1000 in its favour (I think)..?
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But if 2 someones from the US who has been on 500 coasters but not T-Express (and face it thats much more likely) puts Boulder Dash on the top, it means +1000 in its favour (just sayin')
 
Joey said:
I never said otherwise, I meant how many people who'd ridden Toro and BD preferred BD...? Not... what Matt said.

But, the problem with the whole "people who've ridden more get more weight" thing is the phenomenon of lesser ridden coasters getting weird votes because of heard-like behaviour...

Not that there is a better way of doing this, but if more enthusiasts grew a brain and thought for themselves, behaving more like they do on CF, maybe Toro wouldn't be first and BD would be.
Click to expand...

So, basically, you're going back to the regular way of complaining about these results and are blaming groups such as Theme Park Review, and even going as far to call groups like this as 'brainless'?

:roll:

Also, as you keep on asking about it, Mitch Hawker's site is now back up and running with the Mutual Rider spreadsheet working.
Having a glance at it, it looks like My Favourite Steel utterly demolished everything on the list, and it also has T Express being above El Toro.

From mutual riders who have ridden both El Toro and Boulder Dash, El Toro JUST edges it at 60-58.
 
4. Phoenix - Knoebel's - can't say I was that impressed, good enough, not outstanding though
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+1.

Mike said:
Joey said:
I never said otherwise, I meant how many people who'd ridden Toro and BD preferred BD...? Not... what Matt said.

But, the problem with the whole "people who've ridden more get more weight" thing is the phenomenon of lesser ridden coasters getting weird votes because of heard-like behaviour...

Not that there is a better way of doing this, but if more enthusiasts grew a brain and thought for themselves, behaving more like they do on CF, maybe Toro wouldn't be first and BD would be.
Click to expand...

So, basically, you're going back to the regular way of complaining about these results and are blaming groups such as Theme Park Review, and even going as far to call groups like this as 'brainless'?

:roll:
Click to expand...
Twisting my words there.

What I actually said is that in the coaster community, it is not uncommon for heard-like behaviour to occur. And, yes, TPR is one of those communities where it is particularly bad. (But when you ban your members for thinking differently to you, that's what happens.)

You could prove me wrong with an alternative theory as to why examples like Knightmare happen.

Also, as you keep on asking about it, Mitch Hawker's site is now back up and running with the Mutual Rider spreadsheet working.
Having a glance at it, it looks like My Favourite Steel utterly demolished everything on the list, and it also has T Express being above El Toro.

From mutual riders who have ridden both El Toro and Boulder Dash, El Toro JUST edges it at 60-58.
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That's pretty ****ing tight, though.
 
Agreed. Groups tend to think a like.. in many different situations. To say most AREN'T influenced by their friends/leaders/people around them while riding is just a plain lie. As Joey pointed out.. it has happened with TPR, it has happened with ACE, and it has happened with CF. Can't avoid it really.
 
Sent mine in today, top 10:

X2
Montu
Nemesis
California Screamin'
Kumba
Favourite Wood Coaster
Xcelerator
Kraken
Tatsu
SheiKra
 
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