God

[Lain]

My favourite God is Thor.

He is bad ass, man.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I know of someone who interprets Yahweh as a Dragon. No joke. I'm really interested to know more about this, but a google search for "yahweh dragon" only brings up his own bull****. Lol. He constantly speaks of evidence, but never ever ever cites a source. It's hilarious. Shame really, I liked that interpretation.

If Yahweh was a Dragon, he'd be by defult the best God. He'd just eat Thor. Omnomnom.

 

[Lain]

Excuse me? Have you seen that hammer!?

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Yahweh as a dragon would just omnom that too.

We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?

See, omnom. Thor dead.

 

[kimahri]

We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?

But, it's THOR!!!


He has a giant bad-ass hammer, that shoots lightening.

And have you seen that hat!?


Lain.

He is right!

 

[Blaze]

I can't believe I haven't posted in here. Well, here it goes.

I believe in God, the reason I believe in God is simple.

Try to understand this if you will, if something Supernatural, something bigger, more important and more amazing than anything the Universe has to offer did not create this, then what did?

Evolution is always the Atheists answer to God not existing. They say "If God exists why do we evolve? If he existed, he would have made us perfect!".

Well its simple really isn't it.

A. Evolution is a THEORY not FACT, no one knows if it is true, no one will ever live long enough to realise if it is true.

B. If evolution does exist then it may be God's way of trying to improve himself, changing beings to fit their environment and making those which he has made too weak extinct.

The other things Atheists say is "If God exists, why the hell is there suffering!".

Well, I believe that suffering and natural caused death is all God's way of stabilising the population, maybe thats a bit harsh to people to think that God chooses a mass of people to die but that is what I believe.

If God does not exist, what made this, I mean if you can tell me that we came from single celled organisms, then where did they come from?

I'm not saying that anything I said is right, or wrong.

But I'm going to say one last thing, if you want proof of God, look around you. Look at the perfection that you can see, the way each Organism works in harmony and is perfectly equipped for their purpose. Then tell me, can you honestly say this was by accident?

A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.
B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.
Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.
Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest. AS conditions changed on Earth, animals more suitable for survival due to natural differences lived, the others did not and died due to natural selection. Put it this way, if you dropped a rabid dog into a long corridor full of people, the fittinst and quickest would get out, and the fatties and sloths would not.

 

[Slash]

I find it funny how a "Do you believe in God" Yes or No poll has turned into 22 pages off people arguing. :lol:

How can a question like "Do you believe the universe was created intelligently?" be a yes or no question?

Sense is spoken

A. Evolution is a THEORY not FACT, no one knows if it is true, no one will ever live long enough to realise if it is true.

Well done. Evolution is a theory. Do you understand what a "theory" means in scientific terms...? Maybe you do, but I doubt it, since you're not also arguing the case that Gravity, too, is a theory.

Yes but that's an easier theory to follow it fully explains us. Explain, if you will, if we have evolved from apes, why are there still Orangutans and Monkeys and not life forms, closer to our structure?

FACTS are observations... We don't fall off the Earth. THEORIES explain why we don't fall off the Earth.

Evolution has a mountain of evidence for it. A mountain of things we have observed which are facts. Those facts, like Whales having leg bones for example, are only explained by Evolution.

Yes and we have tail bones supposedly, they still have purposes within our body other than being as you say remnants of our past but this isn't the point, I'm just stating Evolution may not exist, I personally believe it does.

B. If evolution does exist then it may be God's way of trying to improve himself, changing beings to fit their environment and making those which he has made too weak extinct.

You're a rare breed if you're a Christian and think this statement works. God is infallible, all knowing and all powerful, so he cannot improve himself, which means he isn't all powerful... Eugh paradox.

I'm not a conventional Christian, Im hardly even a Christian Im a faith not depicted at the moment, I believe in God but that's it. The bible and other such books can't be "The word of God" because God himself didn't write them.

I think as well that God may not be perfect, he's the closest thing to it though. I think this because I try and find plausable explanations and this seems to be plausable.

I don't really have too much of an issue with it. God, being all knowing, could foresee the changes in the environment that, being all powerful, he would be making in the first place.

But this sort of statement, however rare, is based on a misunderstanding of evolution. Most people accept "micro" evolution... The adaptation of individual species. Less people accept that those individual species become new species.

Nope I accept this, hence why we are very closely related to Animals such as the Orangutan, you have me wrong.

And this is the issue. The Biblical stories denounce evolution. Adam wasn't the descendant of a evolutionary process, he was just poofed into existence...

This may be true, or it may not, we still no matter how much evidence don't know. Put it this way, it could be a test of our faith from God, it could be a way of testing the balance between intelligence and faith and seeing where intelligence makes people rule out religion.

If God does not exist, what made this, I mean if you can tell me that we came from single celled organisms, then where did they come from?

I don't know where they came from. But I'd like to know. Which is the point of science. You cannot possibly think it's logical to assume that what we know now is the limit to our knowledge and that we will never explain what we currently do not understand... so, let's just make up a story that fits?

Did I ever say that I thought our knowledge in these matters was thorough, no, you asume. I believe we will find out one day, but I believe that we are too complex to have evloved from that state. We have evolved from more primitive creatures than ourselves, but not THAT primitive.

Now you answer me this. Where did whatever made those single celled organisms come from, then?

I don't know and I never will. Its the reason we call it FAITH. All we know is that they can't have come from nowhere and if you say "Where did the Creator come from then" I shall reply with the same answer.

God begs more questions than he answers. Simply not knowing something and asserting that the answer must be supernatural is complete idiocy. You only have to look back at human history to see that.

But asserting something happens randomly could also be seen as complete idiocy and please give me the courtesy of not bashing me.

And yes there has been times when explaining sething as supernatural caused problems and it still causes problems today but a lack of faith can cause problems too.

You think that I am some sort of deluded, brain-dead moron, who believes because he cannot explain and in part your right. I believe because I can't accept that after death there is nothing, it just isn't possible in my mind. You may say believing this is idiocy but so many more people would be calling you the idiot. It's a case of your opinion, you've just got to live with that opinion.

Lastly Id like to quote a philosoher who I can't recall the name of, who said "The chance of God not existing is the same as someone dropping one thousand coins out of their pocket and them all landing on their edge"

I believe this.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?

But, it's THOR!!!


He has a giant bad-ass hammer, that shoots lightening.

And have you seen that hat!?


Lain.

He is right!

Did you miss the all powerful part? All powerful over rules everything. The end.



And UC, without adding to the quote chain, the way I see things is this.

You can indeed interpret the Bible in numerous ways. I, for one, am keen to at some point to interpret some Old Testament stories into some sort of illustrative work. I don't expect you, as a Christian, to interpret it literally and I'm sorry if I made it sound that way.

It's very difficult for me to explain what I have issues with, but here we go. If the Bible is open to interpretation, who is interpreting it correctly? If anyone? And why? Does it even matter? If no, then why interpret anything from it? Am I going to hell for not believing? Who is going to hell? Why? Who's interpretation?

The Bible and other religious texts are where my issues lie. If they are metaphorical, then how do you decide what the metaphor is? And why take anything as fact, at all, like... Jesus even existing? I'm not saying he didn't, I'm just making an example.

I suspect that what you "get" from the Bible and how you apply it to your life, is no different to whatever I get ...from, just existing and apply to my life. I don't kill people. In fact, besides winding people up online, I don't "hurt" anyone. What exactly do you get from the Bible? What are those messages in the stories that you get from the Bible as a whole? Love thy neighbour, maybe? Doesn't most of humanity do this anyway? Is this really a result of religion, or normal human psychology as the result of evolution?


And also... WHY Christianity?

 

[kimahri]

We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?

But, it's THOR!!!


He has a giant bad-ass hammer, that shoots lightening.

And have you seen that hat!?


Lain.

He is right!

Did you miss the all powerful part? All powerful over rules everything. The end.

Fine.

Lets get daddykins in.

ODIN!


Aaaw yeah.

 

[Slash]

I can't believe I haven't posted in here. Well, here it goes.

I believe in God, the reason I believe in God is simple.

Try to understand this if you will, if something Supernatural, something bigger, more important and more amazing than anything the Universe has to offer did not create this, then what did?

Evolution is always the Atheists answer to God not existing. They say "If God exists why do we evolve? If he existed, he would have made us perfect!".

Well its simple really isn't it.

A. Evolution is a THEORY not FACT, no one knows if it is true, no one will ever live long enough to realise if it is true.

B. If evolution does exist then it may be God's way of trying to improve himself, changing beings to fit their environment and making those which he has made too weak extinct.

The other things Atheists say is "If God exists, why the hell is there suffering!".

Well, I believe that suffering and natural caused death is all God's way of stabilising the population, maybe thats a bit harsh to people to think that God chooses a mass of people to die but that is what I believe.

If God does not exist, what made this, I mean if you can tell me that we came from single celled organisms, then where did they come from?

I'm not saying that anything I said is right, or wrong.

But I'm going to say one last thing, if you want proof of God, look around you. Look at the perfection that you can see, the way each Organism works in harmony and is perfectly equipped for their purpose. Then tell me, can you honestly say this was by accident?

A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.

No, I think you'll find that proves other animals existence , not Evolution.

B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.

I didn't say God was perfect. Not once. If you mean what I said at th end I meant eveything is almost perfect.

Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.

Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.

Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest.

I'm sorry, who taught you to read, I don't mean to start bashing you personaly but you keep on making out that I said somethig I didn't. I said that evolution may be Gods way of improving himself and extinction is just eradicating those that he cannot adapt without changing them completely. You seem under the delusion that I don't believe in Evolution.

And I have NEVER heard of bamboo being a halusanogenic or Pandas being able to eat meat, but I may be wrong.

AS conditions changed on Earth, animals more suitable for survival due to natural differences lived, the others did not and died due to natural selection. Put it this way, if you dropped a rabid dog into a long corridor full of people, the fittinst and quickest would get out, and the fatties and sloths would not.

Well done for explaining Natural Selection, but that's not an argument at all.

 

[Sam]

I have a large penis

 

[Dave]

This man is God

 

[Ben]

^You seem to have mistaken where it says "God" for "unfunny".

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Before I get back to UC's strangly and wonderfully out-of-character post...

A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.

No, I think you'll find that proves other animals existence , not Evolution.

What the fossil record shows that there area bunch of really similar animals that existed in a progressively more complex tree over time.

That's evolution right there, dude. Whether you think it's intelligently started, controlled till this day, or there is no intelligent creator is irrelevant.

Once you know how genes work, and look at the fossil record, Evolution is quite simply unquestionable.

B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.

I didn't say God was perfect. Not once. If you mean what I said at th end I meant eveything is almost perfect.

You're the first Christian I have ever met who says God is imperfect. I thought God was all powerful, all knowing, infallible... These things equate to perfectness. On top of this, the creator of the universe would by default be perfect. Remember, creator of EVERYTHING, even the idea of perfectness.

Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.

Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.

You're right that this guy is talking BS. But your response stems from the common creationist stance of "if things happened randomly then life would keep starting all over the place" which is such a gross misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.

Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest.

I'm sorry, who taught you to read, I don't mean to start bashing you personaly but you keep on making out that I said somethig I didn't. I said that evolution may be Gods way of improving himself and extinction is just eradicating those that he cannot adapt without changing them completely. You seem under the delusion that I don't believe in Evolution.

And I have NEVER heard of bamboo being a halusanogenic or Pandas being able to eat meat, but I may be wrong.

Again, this guy is half talking bull. He just misunderstands, like you do.

Evolution could not physically, under normal circumstances, allow any creature not fit for purpose to exist into a species (individuals, yes). Let me make it clear that when discussing the natural world, "fit for purpose" can mean nothing else except "capable of passing on your genes, hopefully more than your rivals". If you aren't fit for this purpose, you don't pass on your genes, and it's the end of the line. See how an entire species cannot be unfit for purpose.

Panda's are retarded, and without human intervention would become extinct very quickly. This is partially "our fault" but more because they are such outrageously bad parents. They come into season about once every 4 years, and then often squash their young by sitting on them. They haven't adapted fast enough to deal with a world where humans steal their resources, compared to a successful species such as rats who have benefited from our rampage. Evolution would kick Pandas out very quickly, if it wasn't for us now protecting them. I'm not saying that we should not, I'm just pointing out a fact. Things that do not adapt as quick as their rivals die out. This is a case for the natural world, and the intellegently designed man-made world of technology, for example. It's an observable, undeniable fact.


From your post I cannot work out if you are a true creationist, or if you simply think God controls evolution or "started the ball rolling". Half of your arguments are against evolution entirely, the others are against it denouncing God (which it doesn't, on it's own). But the point is that Evolution is a fact and if you want the evidence, we can surely touch on it.


Can anyone tell me what this is? <3

 

[jokerman]

:
Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.

Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.

It isn't bull**** at all. Actually, the chances of it happening are just very small. That is why it has only ever happened a small number of times (or once) for all we know. The universe is massive, there are other planets out there with similiar conditions to ours. Even though the chance of all the conditions being right for it to happen are quite small, when you look at all the places across the universe that it could happen, the chances of it happening aren't so small after all.

So it won't be happening all of the time like you think it would.

This is the normal explanation for it. It's on the GCSE biology syllabus.

Of course the other explanation is that it is happening all the time. Why do you think that we are discovering new organisms all the time? I don't think this is right, but it is certainly an explanation.

Also, I think it was established on an episode of Friends a few years ago that evolution is a theory, so Joey, you are wrong tro insist that it is fact.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Also, I think it was established on an episode of Friends a few years ago that evolution is a theory, so Joey, you are wrong tro insist that it is fact.

Oh yes, because Friends said so, it must be true? Perhaps you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not...

You misunderstand how the word "theory" is used in science. It does not mean the same thing as in general usage. Much the same as how UC's argument is basically that when I call things he says fallacies, that's some sort of personal opinion. It's not. They are fallacies of argumentation. They don't make logical sense. Note that all these words; theory, logic, fallacy and arguing are very specific terms.

Is evolution "just a theory?"

In detective novels, a "theory" is little more than an educated guess, often based on a few circumstantial facts. In science, the word "theory" means much more. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact.

A theory is a scientific explanation of an observed phenomenon. Unlike laws, theories actually explain why things are the way they are. Theories are what science is for. If, then, a theory is a scientific explanation of a natural phenomena, ask yourself this: "What part of that definition excludes a theory from being a fact?" The answer is nothing! There is no reason a theory cannot be an actual fact as well.

For example, there is the phenomenon of gravity, which you can feel. It is a fact that you can feel it, and that bodies caught in a gravitational field will fall towards the center. Then there is the theory of gravity, which explains the phenomenon of gravity, based on observation, physical evidence and experiment. Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity replaced the less accurate gravity theory of Sir Isaac Newton, which was the first complete mathematical theory formulated which described a fundamental force.

 

[furie]

Ahhhh! Friends! The font of all scientific knowledge!

I've heard Stephen Hawking is due to receive this year's "Friends award for extreme scientific cleverness!"

Hurrah! :lol:

 

[Slash]

Before I get back to UC's strangly and wonderfully out-of-character post...

A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.

No, I think you'll find that proves other animals existence , not Evolution.

What the fossil record shows that there area bunch of really similar animals that existed in a progressively more complex tree over time.

That's evolution right there, dude. Whether you think it's intelligently started, controlled till this day, or there is no intelligent creator is irrelevant.

His wording is crap though, this is what confused me, I thought he meant fossils that are millions of year olds that are completely different to us.

But thats besides the point, what I'm saying is I BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION, when I said "If Evolution does not exist". It is because it is still unproven to an extent, just like the theory of atomic structure but it is PERFECTLY ACCURATE. It explains things down to a tee. I'm not disputing this, I'm just evaluating all sides of the argument.

Once you know how genes work, and look at the fossil record, Evolution is quite simply unquestionable.

B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.

I didn't say God was perfect. Not once. If you mean what I said at th end I meant eveything is almost perfect.

You're the first Christian I have ever met who says God is imperfect. I thought God was all powerful, all knowing, infallible... These things equate to perfectness. On top of this, the creator of the universe would by default be perfect. Remember, creator of EVERYTHING, even the idea of perfectness.

But, couldn't you say the concept of perfection is impossible, I believe God can make mistakes, just like all, he just has supernatural abilities.

Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.

Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.

You're right that this guy is talking BS. But your response stems from the common creationist stance of "if things happened randomly then life would keep starting all over the place" which is such a gross misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.

I'm not saying "If things happened randomly life would start all over the place"., I'm saying if single celled organisms grew from chemicals reacting with sunlight, life would be appearing all the time. This is impossible as you well know, it is making something from nothing.

Evolutionary theory is the theory that things change over long periods of time into new species, this is due to the genetic mutation. This can be seen from some people who are immune to some diseases from birth. Evolution also fits in with natural selection, this states that if an animal cannot mutate/ evolve fast enough it will die out because it cannot fend itself from the ever-changing problems it faces.

Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest.

I'm sorry, who taught you to read, I don't mean to start bashing you personaly but you keep on making out that I said somethig I didn't. I said that evolution may be Gods way of improving himself and extinction is just eradicating those that he cannot adapt without changing them completely. You seem under the delusion that I don't believe in Evolution.

And I have NEVER heard of bamboo being a halusanogenic or Pandas being able to eat meat, but I may be wrong.

Again, this guy is half talking bull. He just misunderstands, like you do.

Evolution could not physically, under normal circumstances, allow any creature not fit for purpose to exist into a species (individuals, yes). Let me make it clear that when discussing the natural world, "fit for purpose" can mean nothing else except "capable of passing on your genes, hopefully more than your rivals". If you aren't fit for this purpose, you don't pass on your genes, and it's the end of the line. See how an entire species cannot be unfit for purpose.

Panda's are retarded, and without human intervention would become extinct very quickly. This is partially "our fault" but more because they are such outrageously bad parents. They come into season about once every 4 years, and then often squash their young by sitting on them. They haven't adapted fast enough to deal with a world where humans steal their resources, compared to a successful species such as rats who have benefited from our rampage. Evolution would kick Pandas out very quickly, if it wasn't for us now protecting them. I'm not saying that we should not, I'm just pointing out a fact. Things that do not adapt as quick as their rivals die out. This is a case for the natural world, and the intellegently designed man-made world of technology, for example. It's an observable, undeniable fact.

I perfectly agree with you. I never said the opposite of this or differ from this.

From your post I cannot work out if you are a true creationist, or if you simply think God controls evolution or "started the ball rolling". Half of your arguments are against evolution entirely, the others are against it denouncing God (which it doesn't, on it's own). But the point is that Evolution is a fact and if you want the evidence, we can surely touch on it.

Well I think what you are looking for is an answer, this is easy. I am a creationist with scientific roots, I believe God can control everything, but is improving himself all the time, he is making the changes and seeing fit to everything.

I have never said I'm against Evolution, I have just been covering the opinions of other creationists and saying how they could fit in, taking into account the entire argument.

I don't need evidence for Evolution, it fits like a jigsaw puzzle. It is how we work.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Thanks for your response, cleared a lot of misunderstanding on my part up.

I'm saying if single celled organisms grew from chemicals reacting with sunlight, life would be appearing all the time. This is impossible as you well know, it is making something from nothing.

Something did start from nothing. This is a fact, because we are here. A divine creator doesn't change this, because, what made God? Something, at some point, surely came from nothing. OR everything is just ageless and infinite. Why apply the the logic that God has always been there, and not apply it to the universe in general?

Whatever started life from a non-God pov was a highly improbable concoction. I'd not doubt that there are infinate other highly improbable concoctions which would have sparked something entirely different, or indeed nothing at all. However improbable, given an infinate amount of time, even the most improbable will occur.

 

[Slash]

^ Ok, once, maybe something did start from nothing, but not in the way Blaze is saying.