Gardaland | Oblivion: The Black Hole | B&M Dive Coaster

[TheCoasterCruiser]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

They won't use any other inversion other than an Immelmann, it's purely there to make a sharp turnaround. If you start sticking extra inversions on it then the cost increases dramatically, and then you also start to detract from the rides main feature which is the vertical drop.

I don't expect to see anything other than the traditional drop, turnaround and splash elements, so I'm calling something very similar to Krake, if not a clone.

You're probably right. I'd just like to see something different for a change.

Part of me loves Krake's splashdown, but part of me hopes that if Gardaland were to get a DM, they would leave it out.

Although it's very dramatic (visually), so it wouldn't surprise me if future models include them.

Same with me. They've already used splashdowns on what, 3 DMs? There's nothing really wrong with them though, but it's not like its necessary. Also, I haven't ridden Krake, but to me it seems like its splashdown kills the speed. Does it affect the experience of the ride on Krake?

Anyway, I'm not setting high hopes for something unique.

Well it is supposed to slow the train down, and it makes for one of the most enjoyable inversions I've experienced, so yes it affects the experience of the ride, but in a good way.

 

[MouseAT]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

They need another decent coaster considering their second best cred is between a Vekoma Mine Train or an extended Wacky Worm...

Be it B&M or something else... They need something GOOD...

Yeah, Gardaland definitely needs a second good coaster. Raptor is awesome, and the park as a whole is really nice, but when it comes to coasters their ride line up is rather bland.

2009 was in fact, the best attended season listed, with 250,000 more than 2011....so I don't believe Raptor did so much.

I wonder how much of that was to do with the economy though? The financial markets crashed in 2008, but effects on your average person on the street probably weren't felt until later. A year or two down the line, Italy was in particularly bad shape, and people abroad were probably beginning to feel the pinch and re-think booking expensive holidays abroad. It's be more interesting to see the 2010 and 2011 statistics side by side.

 

[Darren B]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

You see as much as Raptor didn't bring in hundreds of thousands of new visitors to the park, what it's managed to do is keep the numbers up, it's only a matter of time before people start getting bored of the park if they don't add anything for a few years.

The rumoured B&M will first give the regular visitors a reason to come back, but will also generate extra numbers, maybe even more than Raptor did. And given the fact that the DM is a more appealing coaster than a Wing Rider, I believe this will be the case.

 

[MouseAT]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

And given the fact that the DM is a more appealing coaster than a Wing Rider, I believe this will be the case.

I don't know. Dive Machines are a bit of a one trick pony, and I don't see that changing any time soon. Krake was short, sharp and over quickly. I can't imaging Merlin spending the money to build something on the scale of Sheikra or Griffon, so we're probably looking at a Krake clone. I don't see this being an Oblivion beater.

Raptor is actually a really good ride. It's probably one of the best implementations we've seen of the wing coaster to date (although Heide Park's new one looks like it'll give Raptor a good run for its money).

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[TilenB]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

About this attendance rise talk... I've been to Gardaland twice in the first three months of Raptor's operation. Its queue length was far from what is usually the standard for new rides (Smiler for example). In fact, I believe that even Mammut's queue was longer than Raptor's. I don't really believe that Gardaland does really need a superb coaster, since the huge majority of the visitors are families with small children (the most crowded part of the park, for example, is the kids area)

 

[Darren B]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

And given the fact that the DM is a more appealing coaster than a Wing Rider, I believe this will be the case.

I don't know. Dive Machines are a bit of a one trick pony, and I don't see that changing any time soon. Krake was short, sharp and over quickly. I can't imaging Merlin spending the money to build something on the scale of Sheikra or Griffon, so we're probably looking at a Krake clone. I don't see this being an Oblivion beater.

Raptor is actually a really good ride. It's probably one of the best implementations we've seen of the wing coaster to date (although Heide Park's new one looks like it'll give Raptor a good run for its money).

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

To us I completely agree. However the Italians will probably have never encountered a Dive Machine before, and I would expect them to greet it with similar enthusiasm as the UK did with Oblivion in 1998. The wing rider was something different, but nothing compared to a Dive Machine.

 

[andrus]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

They won't use any other inversion other than an Immelmann, it's purely there to make a sharp turnaround. If you start sticking extra inversions on it then the cost increases dramatically, and then you also start to detract from the rides main feature which is the vertical drop.

I don't expect to see anything other than the traditional drop, turnaround and splash elements, so I'm calling something very similar to Krake, if not a clone.

I agree with you that the ride probably wont have any more inversions. But I do not agree that further elements attached to the ride detrects from the experince since both the immelman and the airtime hill on Krake are magnificent and some of the best of their kind in the world! Consiering the height of the ride it would be rather easy to attach another 2-3 inversions and maybe another airtime hill for a "complete" coaster experience. It would be more expensive, yes, but not as "dramatically" as you descibe Darren. The mini Dive Machines utilitzes regular sized B&M track (in contradiction to the huge spine on Oblivion/Sheikra/Griffon) and an extended layout wouldn't cost more than on a regular B&M.

Part of me loves Krake's splashdown, but part of me hopes that if Gardaland were to get a DM, they would leave it out.

Although it's very dramatic (visually), so it wouldn't surprise me if future models include them.

Plus there's the Italian wheather. I don't think they would leave out a splash element like that with the Italian hot summers.

 

[Darren B]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015

They won't use any other inversion other than an Immelmann, it's purely there to make a sharp turnaround. If you start sticking extra inversions on it then the cost increases dramatically, and then you also start to detract from the rides main feature which is the vertical drop.

I don't expect to see anything other than the traditional drop, turnaround and splash elements, so I'm calling something very similar to Krake, if not a clone.

I agree with you that the ride probably wont have any more inversions. But I do not agree that further elements attached to the ride detrects from the experince since both the immelman and the airtime hill on Krake are magnificent and some of the best of their kind in the world! Consiering the height of the ride it would be rather easy to attach another 2-3 inversions and maybe another airtime hill for a "complete" coaster experience. It would be more expensive, yes, but not as "dramatically" as you descibe Darren. The mini Dive Machines utilitzes regular sized B&M track (in contradiction to the huge spine on Oblivion/Sheikra/Griffon) and an extended layout wouldn't cost more than on a regular B&M

I get what your saying, and I certainly wouldn't be against the idea of an extended layout, but why would Gardaland of all places be the first theme park in the world to take an extended Dive Machine? especially when Merlin have the 2 shortest Dive Machine models in existence.

So yes I agree with you about the ability being there to extend the layout, but I do believe there would be a much greater cost involved, Krake still cost €12,000,000 and I don't believe Gardaland would spend anymore than that. Quite simply, they don't have to. The extended layout just isn't needed.

 

[andrus]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

^I agree with you, just like I wrote in my post. I do not think Merlin of all companies would be the first to build an extended DM.. :lol: And Gardaland just recently build a new major attraction in Raptor. So I guess they'll be going with the DM as a short but effective support attraction!

But it would be nice if a park decided to put in a DM as their new main attraction and spend a few bucks on an extended layout. The new narrow DM trains allow for tighter manouvers and the smaller B&M spine wouldn't make it too expensive (yet expensive). I could imagine a park like Cedar Point to make a big and unique layout if they ever decided to go with a B&M DM!

 

[Darren B]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

^I agree with you, just like I wrote in my post. I do not think Merlin of all companies would be the first to build an extended DM.. :lol: And Gardaland just recently build a new major attraction in Raptor. So I guess they'll be going with the DM as a short but effective support attraction!

But it would be nice if a park decided to put in a DM as their new main attraction and spend a few bucks on an extended layout. The new narrow DM trains allow for tighter manouvers and the smaller B&M spine wouldn't make it too expensive (yet expensive). I could imagine a park like Cedar Point to make a big and unique layout if they ever decided to go with a B&M DM!

This.

We're looking for a large park to take the gamble, but I have no doubts it would pay off. Cedar Point though only tend to pick up B&M's when they're a reasonably new and popular model, so I can't ever see them doing it, and add to the fact Cedar Fair, or Six Flags for that matter have never purchased one it seems unlikely. If it ever happened I would bet on Asia.

As for the Italian DM, although just a rumour, I would be pretty confident of this going ahead. Oblivion and Krake were both huge hits, so Merlin know they can't go wrong with this.

 

[_koppen]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

I wouldn't like to see them extend it by much. For me Krake is almost perfect, to only thing I miss is that I think the coaster should of had a zero-g-roll or a flat spin into the brake run.

 

[D1993]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

Problem is, they're mega expensive and take up a nice amount of space, which is why all the dive machines out there have such short layouts.
Riding sheikra just a few months ago was one of the most surprising experiences! I didn't think I would love the dive machines that much, so I am all for gardaland getting one!

 

[_koppen]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

Problem is, they're mega expensive and take up a nice amount of space, which is why all the dive machines out there have such short layouts.
Riding sheikra just a few months ago was one of the most surprising experiences! I didn't think I would love the dive machines that much, so I am all for gardaland getting one!

Well I'm not sure I would use the term mega expensive. This ride will most likely be the small version of the Dive Machine which is very reasonable, and even the big ones are not that expensive. They simply cost what a 200 feet ride cost.

The way all the big Dive Machine layouts are designed, with the same elements and in similar layouts, makes me think the reason they all look like that is because the manufacturer want's to build them like that.

 

[Darren B]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

^ I simply think it's a case of why do more than you have too. The main selling point of the Dive Machine is the vertical drop, the Immlemann is a way of turning the train around without having a large overbanked turn, and the splash element is a gimmick to make the ride even more visually appealing at a minimal cost.

I don't even see any park doing more than the 3 elements I've listed above , they're not going to waste millions of pounds when there's no need to. Gardaland will go with a DM similar, if not identical to Krake. I don't believe B&M would refuse to put a loop or a Zero-G onto a DM, it's just nobody's asked them too, and never will.

 

[D1993]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

Well that's what I pretty much meant to say, is that they will turn out mega expensive if the ride was to be a little longer than the other dive machines.
Regardless of the short time, I fell in love with Sheikra, so yeah it seems that its definitely good enough for numerous parks. I just think it would be really fun to see a slightly longer layout on a dive machine

 

[Taxi]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

^ Dive machines are what the name implies, diving. Something short, sweet, thrilling and compact. Hence why that's all we've seen. I to wish to see something more done with these rides, they have so much potential. I much prefer dive loops to immelmans, I don't see why someone hasn't asked for something slightly different. I can see why Zero-G's have been omitted, it would make more sense to use a giant flat spin rather than something as lengthy as a Zero-G, especially with these compact layouts.

 

[Nemesis of oblivion]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

To be honest the purpose of the dive machine is the drop. I found that after the drop the ride does become lifeless and hence why I think a longer dive machine layout may be pointless. Sheikra is the longest a dive machine need to go in terms of length. I wouldn't mind seeing a dive machine with a twisted drop, but I think that'd be too intense.

 

[D1993]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

Well I think something as small as griffon having that second immelman is cool, as opposed to just turning around and going straight into the brake run. They are definitely short and satisfying though! It doesn't really bother me they're short time-wise, but of course I would rather see an extra inversion or two as opposed to just a turnaround.

 

[TilenB]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

Sketch of a possible layout.

source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Re: B&M Dive Machine for Gardaland in 2015 (?)

That's actually the original layout concept for Oblivion from many moons ago...

It's unlikely to be the layout for Garda...