Cedar Point | Top Thrill 2 | Triple Launch Renovation | 2024
- Thread starter Wazzupnerds
- Start date
Will
Strata Poster
Yeah, I'm with Jordan on this - I don't even particularly *like* this ride type, but if you ask me to name a CP coaster, it's always going to be in one of the first three out of my mouth. I still haven't given up on the idea of a trip in late Spring, but this has made me less interested.
Yes. For this enthusiast anyway.
Christian
Hyper Poster
I think it will open with a refurbishment. Probably a smaller one. Worst case scenario would be a full Red Force style retrack keeping only the support tower. The coaster is huge and popular. Tearing it down and replacing it with something equally popular would cost above 50 million as Hyde said, a retrack and launch replacement might be around 10 million. I am no engineer but if the structure itself is still in good shape it would be financially stupid top tear it down.
Christian
Hyper Poster
Completely unprofessional guess around 10 million. Could also be 20. Maybe it's not even technically possible? Our task as enthusiasts is speculation not engineering.
RcTmix
Mega Poster
Didn't they consider this initially, but determine that the launch track with a magnetic launch would have to be much longer to get up enough speed for a 400' top hat? I seem to remember hearing that but I don't remember where, so it could have been a load of B.S.
Indy
Hyper Poster
They would need to replace the entirety of the launch track with new track built to accommodate the stators. May or may not need to replace some of the track up the incline in order to allow for additional stators. The trains would need to be either heavily modified or altogether replaced to accommodate the stators. The brake run would also likely need to be updated to the more modern fin arrangement. And then the entire controls system would pretty much need to be redone.
The track replacement, stators, brake modifications, and controls would probably be in the neighborhood of $3-5 million. New trains will also cost a pretty penny. That could easily be another $3-5 million. I would imagine it'd be on the lower end, but trains are insanely expensive.
JoshC.
Strata Poster
Hypothetically speaking, with the advancements in technology over the last 20 years, I'd say it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could create a magnetic launch powerful enough to reach the required speed these days.
I could be wrong there tbf, and even if it is possible, I imagine it would be insanely expensive.
Wonder if it would be possible to modify the brakes too, to recover some of the launch energy. Given the insane power usage of TTD (allegedly of the same magnitude as a large town), it could be a worthwhile investment if they could recover even a third of the energy.
Wazzupnerds
Mega Poster
I really think the only way it reopens is if 1. They find a way to get rid of the current launch and replace it with a 120 mph launch (or higher) or 2. They make the queue shorter, covered, and maybe even a retheme to get away from the TTD name.
I don't get the optimism that the ride will ever be the same.
I don't get the optimism that the ride will ever be the same.
Furiustobaco
Mega Poster
Tbf as it is, the current queue for this thing was kinda terrible anyways. A dash of sun and you're baking like a potato. So i do believe some cover over the queue would be step one.
More complex things, i do believe they're gonna have to alter the launch and maybe Intamin are gonna have to do some revisions. The hydraulic system is obviously used on MANY coasters, so potentially they have been made more advanced as the years have passed- i'm guessing Formula Rossa is a lot more sophisticated with its launch system than Dragster for example. So perhaps if Intamin can make some changes to the design of the ride. I do believe Dragster should and will reopen eventually, but it will need extensive refurbiments, and generally maybe some extra safety measures, like perhaps enclosing the queue or at least putting netting around it, changing the structure, ect.
I do believe turning it into a LSM launch would perhaps be more effort than its worth- Red Force and Taron were pretty unreliable in themselves.. Why spend millions on completely binning the ENTIRE launch system for tons of money to convert your very unreliable coaster to a pretty unreliable ride.
More complex things, i do believe they're gonna have to alter the launch and maybe Intamin are gonna have to do some revisions. The hydraulic system is obviously used on MANY coasters, so potentially they have been made more advanced as the years have passed- i'm guessing Formula Rossa is a lot more sophisticated with its launch system than Dragster for example. So perhaps if Intamin can make some changes to the design of the ride. I do believe Dragster should and will reopen eventually, but it will need extensive refurbiments, and generally maybe some extra safety measures, like perhaps enclosing the queue or at least putting netting around it, changing the structure, ect.
I do believe turning it into a LSM launch would perhaps be more effort than its worth- Red Force and Taron were pretty unreliable in themselves.. Why spend millions on completely binning the ENTIRE launch system for tons of money to convert your very unreliable coaster to a pretty unreliable ride.
What else is the off-season for?
To my best recollection, it was always going to be hydraulic - hence the initial piloting of the launch system with Xcelerator. A perk of hydraulic definitely remains on being able to fit faster launches into small space amount. LSMs also hadn't really appeared onto the scene as a launch system of choice until the later 00s; while (at least as best I know) LIMs still pack the highest-powered-punch - a perk to LSM is they also provide their own braking as safety measure.
To offer a counter perspective - I don't understand the "matter of factness" that the ride would close for good off the accident? To be honest (and frank) - it was a pretty non-existent story, that gratefully didn't result in death or proven negligence of the park. Insinuating this is a "stain" on TTD is an overstatement, or at least has really not made waves in the regional zeitgeist - majority don't even have a clue anything happened. Or at least, how is tarnished reputation any better explanation versus the park taking a genuine year of maintenance/TLC after having forgone regular maintenance regiment for nearly 2 years?
So too with the insinuation of TTD being some sort of "has-been" attraction. While it's been a few years since Cedar Point released ridership figures, a good, next proxy might be the Fast Lane program, which has two tiers of eligibility: Fast Lane and Fast Lane Plus for the "most sought after" attractions. And what rides were apart of the Fast Lane Plus list? MF, Maverick, Steel Vengeance, and TTD. So in the same stroke no, I also find it hard to simply brush off TTD as an expendable attraction.
Recognize we are left with pure speculation and hearsay until we are given any shred more of info. I'm just in the camp of "maybe the park doesn't remove one of their most iconic coasters in park history, and spends a year on maintenance."
Not only this, but LSMs do not scale as well with higher speeds as hydraulics do. This means, that you would need to stretch out the launch track by a signifcant amount, just for the train to be able to clear the Top hat. Just have a look at Red Force which needs about twice as long to reach a lower speed compared to TTD.
If anyone is interested in the full result of the investigation, you might enjoy all the 620 pages of it:
2022.02.18 - Cedar Point Memo, Report, & Attachments - Top Thrill Dragster | PDF
2022.02.18 - Cedar Point Memo, Report, & Attachments - Top Thrill Dragster
The last page is quite interesting: Apparently Intamin has grenlit CP to only inspect 17% of all critical components of the trains, due to the limited use in 2020.
They only did a complete inspection of 1 car on 5 of the 6 trains on TTD, the others received a close visual inspection.
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The Undead Creature
Mega Poster
*rubs hands together*LSMs are an order of magnitude more efficient than they were 20 years ago. Modern drives are limited only by how much juice you can shove through them.
The advantage of a hydraulic launch is that it spreads the energy requirement of the launch over about 30 seconds or so, it makes the ride a bit more power grid friendly. An electric launch would need a more substantial power connection to handle the periodic power spikes. Not that it would be impossible though.
To give you a rough idea of the numbers involved, TTD uses 4, 400KW motors and between them they take about 30 seconds to charge up the accumulators. This leaves a nice 48MJ of energy trying to barge its way back out the gate valves.
When it comes time to launch, the accumulators donate this energy to the train and catch car for about 3 seconds which translates to a power output of 16MW.
A 16MW electric drive is not beyond the realms of pissibility with modern stators and VFDs. And at that power rate, you would actually get to 120mph a bit faster because there's no 2 tonne catch car to ....... well..... catch at the end of the launch.
Another bonus is that the trains won't need any upgrading as the Intrasys magnets work with synchronous motors just fine.
Eyebrows
Hyper Poster
Gazza
Giga Poster
Yeah i was thinking you would modify the uphill part of the top hat so that the track remains straight vertical for most of the way up, and then twists 90 degrees as late as possible when the train has slowed down more.
Then you could have LSMs on the flat part, as well as on the vertical (In a similar manner to Storm at Dubai Hills mall)
jay37415
Mega Poster
Heck! Why don't we throw in the possibility of having S&S redoing the track and going with a pneumatic launch more powerful than Dodonpa. that would make the enthusiasts blow their mind.
Lightning2
Roller Poster
That would be neat! But then again there is also a catchcar and a launch cable involved which wouldn't lower the threat potential. So i sadly don't see them go the extra mile to invest in that.