Alton Towers' Next Big Thing?

[Sandman]

I really think Merlin could take a leaf out of Efteling's book at this point in time.

Why not use this opportunity to install a fantastic, fun for all the family type dark ride? It makes perfect sense.

Something with the technical firepower of Symbolica and the mysticism of Hex.

Towers is so rich with folklore and history, it really ought to play to those strengths a bit more - like Efteling.

Every man and his dog can now see that the place is lacking the filler attractions, not that a big dark ride ever really needs to be considered 'filler'. But you get what I mean.

A couple of non-goon mates visited for the first time in a few years during Scarefest and even they remarked on how there are not enough flats/dark rides.

 

[Matt N]

I have something interesting to show you all that could possibly add some weight to the theory of it being a roller coaster... John Wardley did an interview with Radio 5 Live the other day about Nemesis' closure, and when reeling off a list of the coasters he was involved in at Alton Towers, he curiously said "and we've got another big new ride on the way after Nemesis opens in 2024":

Given it's the only major Alton Towers CAPEX project we know about at the moment aside from Nemesis, it's natural to assume that he was probably talking about Horizon. In which case, could he have been subtly implying that Horizon is going to be a coaster, seeing as he teased it in a list where he was only talking about coasters?

I don't know about any of you, but I'd say that this adds considerable weight to the theory of it being an indoor coaster rather than a dark ride...

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Do we think project Amazon is 2025 or after then?

 

[Matt N]

Do we think project Amazon is 2025 or after then?

The planning application said that construction would start in Spring 2023 and last 18 months/78 weeks (but some documents gave a vaguer timeline of 2 years), which would line up with a probable 2025 opening.

 

[Georgie-M]

2025 certainly makes the most sense to me. Jumanji and Exodus' consultations both happened around Spring time 2 years before they're set to open. If Horizon was following a similar timeframe while aiming for a 2025 opening, we'd still be months away from the consultation even happening. I'd also imagine Merlin's keen to boost their parks as much as possible during the current climate, and opening Horizon in 2025 would mean both a major new attraction at their UK parks* and something new** for Towers for each of the next 3 years.

*assuming the environmental agency don't chain themselves to the remains of loggers leap and get exodus delayed even further
** mileage may vary depending on how you define duel deux and newmesis

 

[Matt N]

I have an update… Alton Parish Council have apparently strongly objected to the application, and all bar one of the public local comments is apparently negative. This is in spite of 82% of respondents supposedly supporting the investment at the public consultation, with only 6% objecting (https://www.towerstimes.co.uk/news/...resort-for-project-horizon-indoor-attraction/). Even 59% of respondents supported the planned location, with only 6% objecting.

I’m unsure what the reasons behind this objection are, and it certainly doesn’t mean the end of the project by any means (an objection from a local council does not mean that the application has been rejected), but it does put things on thin ice somewhat…

 

[Heth]

I have an update… Alton Parish Council have apparently strongly objected to the application, and all bar one of the public local comments is apparently negative.

I’m unsure what the reasons behind this objection are, and it certainly doesn’t mean the end of the project by any means (an objection from a local council does not mean that the application has been rejected), but it does put things on thin ice somewhat…

In most of the planning applications I've seen, I rarely actually see positive neighbours comments. Most people don't like new stuff being built. We had one project with 600 neighbour objections!

The comments that would concern me would be local authority consulted comments, e.g. highways, arboriculturist, design officers.

 

[Matt N]

In most of the planning applications I've seen, I rarely actually see positive neighbours comments. Most people don't like new stuff being built. We had one project with 600 neighbour objections!

The comments that would concern me would be local authority consulted comments, e.g. highways, arboriculturist, design officers.

Wouldn’t Alton Parish Council be quite a big objection, though? Or does it not really count compared to things like the EA and Natural England objections at Thorpe?

 

[rob666]

Parish councils carry little weight in big planning applications...they have a limited scope and powers by definition.
Area/borough planning is what matters, and that can be overruled.
It will probably happen, with a few minor adaptations.

 

[spicy]

Exactly why this has to be an indoor attraction. With this area of the park being the closest to Alton Village any objections from the parish council probably hold a bit more weight?

There really is no reason for them to object to this though, they won't see or hear a thing once it is open? Only disturbance should be hearing some temporary noise from the construction works.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Wouldn’t Alton Parish Council be quite a big objection, though? Or does it not really count compared to things like the EA and Natural England objections at Thorpe?

If it's anything like the parish council meetings I have to attend, then it will be a case of 3 residents, and 5 or 6 councillors at the meeting. They will present all recent planning applications, have a quick chat, and then ask for a vote from all present as to weather to write a letter of support or a letter of objection.

It means nothing at all. Just a general picture of how the majority of the residents (who voted) feel about the application.

 

[AidanCKY]

I really think Merlin could take a leaf out of Efteling's book at this point in time.

Why not use this opportunity to install a fantastic, fun for all the family type dark ride? It makes perfect sense.

Something with the technical firepower of Symbolica and the mysticism of Hex.

Towers is so rich with folklore and history, it really ought to play to those strengths a bit more - like Efteling.

Every man and his dog can now see that the place is lacking the filler attractions, not that a big dark ride ever really needs to be considered 'filler'. But you get what I mean.

A couple of non-goon mates visited for the first time in a few years during Scarefest and even they remarked on how there are not enough flats/dark rides.

Totally agree on this. It makes a park go up a level to me. And rides like Symbolica are great for everyone, eat up a lot of people and give people memories to remember. Some of my strongest memories of park visits are unique dark rides.

 

[Matt N]

I had a thought; with the recent reveal of the Uncharted coaster at PortAventura, which seems likely to be an Intamin Multi Dimensional Coaster, could Project Horizon be something similar?

I know that Alton Towers technically already has Thirteen as an Intamin Multi Dimensional Coaster, but the model has evolved in scope quite considerably since Thirteen was built, and a ride with a heavier dark ride focus and different trick tracks (similar to Gringotts, or the ride that PA are seemingly building) would certainly differentiate itself well from Thirteen. A roller coaster with a heftier dark ride element would also arguably add another dark ride-style attraction to the park (which many argue that it needs), and I also feel that it could suit the smaller ground space better than a flat-out coaster.

If this ride were a coaster with a heavy dark ride element with some higher thrill coaster portions scattered within, it would make the height make sense while also fitting a decent coaster within the space (if it had a heavy dark ride focus, it likely wouldn’t require as much space as a regular enclosed coaster).

 

[Matt N]

Sorry to double post, but the consultation responses from Historic England and the SMDC Conservation Officer are now in… and they don’t make for good reading.

Both parties raise concerns about the location and size of the building, and both are unhappy that Merlin have not offered to pay for restoration of the Flag Tower as part of the application.

The SMDC verdict is readable here: http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=320163

While the Historic England verdict is readable here: http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=320164

I wonder if this could jeopardise the application’s chances of passing…

On a side note, the application does not appear to have been amended since its submission, so I think it’s fair to assume that we’re most likely to be getting an indoor rollercoaster here (based on the fact that the application mentions “rollercoaster” a fair few times… some thought that this was erroneous, but based on the lack of amendment, I’d perhaps argue otherwise).

 

[spicy]

Well reading that this doesn't bode well for the project at all?

Assuming both of these objections hold any kind of weight? I would assume the SMDC conservation officer one holds more weight than Historic England?

The Flag Tower argument is pretty redundant? The flag tower stays derelict regardless if this application is approved or not? Although I guess they may be viewing this project as their only chance of Merlin throwing any money at restoring it.

This bit made me laugh: "It is understood a former ride was once at this location, though the former ride was open-topped and not contained in a large building and therefore was marginally transparent."

It was transparent . If this ride was going to be outside the first thing they would moan about is the potential for noise and recommending to build it inside.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Sorry to double post, but the consultation responses from Historic England and the SMDC Conservation Officer are now in… and they don’t make for good reading.

Both parties raise concerns about the location and size of the building, and both are unhappy that Merlin have not offered to pay for restoration of the Flag Tower as part of the application.

The SMDC verdict is readable here: http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=320163

While the Historic England verdict is readable here: http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=320164

I wonder if this could jeopardise the application’s chances of passing…

On a side note, the application does not appear to have been amended since its submission, so I think it’s fair to assume that we’re most likely to be getting an indoor rollercoaster here (based on the fact that the application mentions “rollercoaster” a fair few times… some thought that this was erroneous, but based on the lack of amendment, I’d perhaps argue otherwise).

Bit pointless spending the money on correcting it when it had already been seen by the people they were trying to hide it from...

I think you're missing the point regarding the terms they forgot to change in the documents they copied. The whole point was that it was almost word for word copied from the Thorpe documents, except that in numerous places they'd replaced the word 'rollercoaster' for 'attraction.' However they'd missed one or two mentions. Whether it's a rollercoaster or not, that is erroneous. Why change most mentions of rollercoaster and miss just a couple?

Either it is a coaster, and they wanted to hide the fact, meaning those mentions they missed slipped through the net, or it isn't and they should have changed all mentions.

Irrelevant anyway, under the current proposal and location, it's not happening is it? They clearly do not want a return to that part of the site being used. And honestly, I have to agree with them, a massive ugly box is going to stand out like a sore thumb up on that hill when viewed from surrounding areas, especially in winter when foliage is reduced. There are so many areas of the park that they could build something like this without impacting the surrounding area.

 

[gavin]

Hmmmm....

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Hmmmm....

Are they even still alive?

 

[Jamesss]

I propose the traditional Alton Towers solution.

Dig a big pit and put the entire building in that.

 

[Munchy Road Hippopotamus]

I'm possibly in the minority here but AT should be able to build what they like on their land. If my neighbours build something in their garden, unless it blocks out light, they should be able to do so. I don't like the look of next doors gazebo does that mean they shouldn't have it?

I do however agree with noise complaints if they are different to what's been there before or if someone lived there before the land was used as a themepark.

I don't like the noise from a factory near where I live and therefore decided against buying a house nearby even though it was cheaper and bigger than the one I bought instead.