Accident at Gröna Lund
- Thread starter davidm
- Start date
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Sure, but the likleyhood of them not being closed is slim. Most guests pull restraints down.
Possible, unlikley.
This just feels like blaming for Gröna for everything.
Almost as if he didn't fall...
My skepticism gets me far.
Arttu
Roller Poster
From what I can imagine about that video, could be that the person has somehow got up from car and crawls to safety. I bet that person sat alone there and restrain were released with same cause than the other people.
But horrible to think what person saw from there. Dead rider and her sister might be the other two who weren’t in the stalled train. Panic sounds from video would have been eerier. Well silence is eerie and in deep shock people usually be silent and numb too.
Is the dead victim in middle grass area? A part from the pov crash aftermath is blurred and in later videos/pics polices are inspecting third block brakes before station.
After multiple frame-by-frame views i made this paper scene that where i ASSUME that people were. You can see people in the train wreck even the video is blurred or put on emoji to cover victims
This is not fact about the thrown out riders. And other than that there’s still two people missing from total ten.
But horrible to think what person saw from there. Dead rider and her sister might be the other two who weren’t in the stalled train. Panic sounds from video would have been eerier. Well silence is eerie and in deep shock people usually be silent and numb too.
Is the dead victim in middle grass area? A part from the pov crash aftermath is blurred and in later videos/pics polices are inspecting third block brakes before station.
After multiple frame-by-frame views i made this paper scene that where i ASSUME that people were. You can see people in the train wreck even the video is blurred or put on emoji to cover victims
This is not fact about the thrown out riders. And other than that there’s still two people missing from total ten.
Attachments
rob666
Hyper Poster
Who else is there to take the blame?
The park is solely responsible for what happens on their park...isn't it?
If the park allows the ride to head up the lift hill without checking restraints...
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I misspoke - it is entirely their fault, but where has this info about the park not doing restraint checks come from and why?
It's a weird and unnecessary leap - guests don't leave their bars raised... They just don't. The main argument for checking lapbars is to make sure guests are in them correctly, not to check they're down. Guests don't just sit there and leave a bar raised as they ascend. Even the dumbest of them.
And even without a restraint, I really doubt you would get ejected from this in an immediate stop, like I explained before. You'd *tumble*. You'd jerk forwards or sideways and be slowed by the car, tumble forwards and loose grip and balance. Possibly hit your head, possibly get lucky and grab something and pull yourself free from the moving train.
I don't have experience trying to get out of Schwarzkopf lapbars lol but I bet I could it I felt it necessary, especially if there was no one beside me.
My point is, there is a chance the lapbars failed from vibrations, damage to the train, etc. There's even a chance they were up, but it's small... so to jump to that they were up and unchecked is weird. From all available evidence, no one was ejected.
You're oddly set on what happened and not thinking about it from a logical standpoint at all. It's not impossible, nothing is, but I dunno why you'd jump to the least likley scenario.
Maybe I've missed something, but where does the whole unchecked bars thing come from?
Arttu
Roller Poster
I would say that lapbars on jetline goes tighter when it rides section with most positive G forces. Even if you hold to it. And as adult passanger would do to make ride feel more safer to herself to pull restaint as tight as possible.
So only solution for ejection and sad summary is that wheels came off
hits track and train stops train movement suddenly and hits release restraint lock pedal woman ejected from car to ground with forces from g forces
So only solution for ejection and sad summary is that wheels came off
hits track and train stops train movement suddenly and hits release restraint lock pedal woman ejected from car to ground with forces from g forcesActually, that's not my intention. Every rider's partially responsible for their own safety in pulling the restraint down far enough when the operators aren't doing so.
We all know that a small gap between restraint and body may as well be large enough to slip through when there's enough forces at play.
Experience
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I rode Jetline a few weeks ago, they do check the restraints visually and pull them down if needed.
The restraint itself is of a ratchet type and always leave a little gap with some play. The restraints are also super light so if possible they will click an extra click at the bottom of the first drop if possible. The restraint system and operations are exactly the same on Lisebergbanan, even with the new trains there.
The restraint itself is of a ratchet type and always leave a little gap with some play. The restraints are also super light so if possible they will click an extra click at the bottom of the first drop if possible. The restraint system and operations are exactly the same on Lisebergbanan, even with the new trains there.
Oof - probably not what you had in mind, but I wouldn’t like to try and argue that as any sort of ‘defence’…
No, absolutely not. Total bulls**t.
Blame guests who stupidly climb over fences to retrieve lost hats. Blame guests who deliberately try and climb out of coaster/ride cars. Blame guests who ignore warnings/restrictions.
You don't blame guests for a car derailing. Just no.
It's an accident. Nobody wanted or planned it. However, the responsibility here lies with Gronalund. 100%.
The restraints being down or not - not that a derailment has much, if any, connection - is the responsibility of the ride ops/park protocols.
Regardless, the focus on the restraints is all kinds of wrong. A wheel assembly fell off.
Fluorineer
Mega Poster
You know, guys, a wheel-assembly hit the crapper. This is like arguing over whether a driver had his seatbelt on while his car got flattened by a cement-truck.
Gröna Lund's responsibility, the relevant kind that has consequences in the real word, is to be strictly legally assessed, and those assessments are traditionally unsuited for normal people with normal common sense. A sunday-newspaper-esque "Gröna Lund is responsible for everything that happens in their park" is very correct but also very useless.
Gröna Lund's responsibility, the relevant kind that has consequences in the real word, is to be strictly legally assessed, and those assessments are traditionally unsuited for normal people with normal common sense. A sunday-newspaper-esque "Gröna Lund is responsible for everything that happens in their park" is very correct but also very useless.
Megamind
Roller Poster
This.It's a weird and unnecessary leap - guests don't leave their bars raised... They just don't. The main argument for checking lapbars is to make sure guests are in them correctly, not to check they're down. Guests don't just sit there and leave a bar raised as they ascend. Even the dumbest of them.
I have worked at Gröna Lund as an operator (Free fall tower) between 2005-2008. As Jetline was one of my favorite attractions at the park I rode it a lot. As employees we also acted as dead weight every Sunday after closing hours for emergency break tests (fun times). I still visit the park every year.
It is VERY rare that someone would not lock their lapbar.
But, inspection is mostly visual...
Tabloid Aftonbladet has managed to capture some footage of the wheel assemblies being loaded for transportation to the Swedish Accident Investigation Authority. See picture below.
From this image it seems like the assemblies are still attached to the subframe, but compare the subframe to that one already in the box. Of course we know nothing and we have to wait for the report to get the full picture, but I found the above picture very interesting.
From this image it seems like the assemblies are still attached to the subframe, but compare the subframe to that one already in the box. Of course we know nothing and we have to wait for the report to get the full picture, but I found the above picture very interesting.
Sad story. Obviously Schwarzkopf trains seem to have issues after time. Mindbender at WEM, the one in Mexico that they are rebuilding at IB, and now this one all had wheel assembly failure. I wonder if this accident will make parks that own Schwarzkopf coasters put their coasters or trains out of service.
streetmagix
Mega Poster
I think most of the Schwarzkopf coasters have had their trains replaced in the last few years, I think/hope it's the end of the road for any original Schwarzkopf trains after this incident.
I am afraid it might be. Other companies build trains for them and if it is the only way to keep them running I say let's do it. I am curious if they don't have other problems such as tiny cracks in the tracks as it was reported by the owners of Galaxyland about their Mindbender.
After over 30 years those trains amass quite some mileage. Just roughly calculate how often they run each day, how many days each year. And Grona Lund like Liseberg keeps those trains running - maybe minus 1 each time for routine maintenance. So I guess after 30 years each train has more mileage than an average car - and if you aren't into young/oldtimers you replace a car way earlier.
As said before - no matter what make: All coaster trains should be replaced after at most 30 years. Maybe legislation would help enforce this.
And also again: Mindbender (Wonderland) and Quimera cannot really be compared to this accident - those rides failed for utter lack of maintenance.
As said before - no matter what make: All coaster trains should be replaced after at most 30 years. Maybe legislation would help enforce this.
And also again: Mindbender (Wonderland) and Quimera cannot really be compared to this accident - those rides failed for utter lack of maintenance.