Dollywood | Lightning Rod | Launched RMC

[Antinos]

We get it, your butthurt you got spited, but to think you know better than the people who have been doing this longer than you've been alive, is just silly.

Butthurt has nothing to do with it.

It's interest in the engineering and business decisions.

Maybe you're not an engineer and don't get it. Most of us (engineers) want to know and understand things at a level of detail normal people don't get.

Let's take it easy with putting engineering on a pedestal and referring to anybody else as 'normal'. As somebody who currently works as a product development engineer, yet still sees business decisions like this every single day, Tom is pretty much spot on (considering how he works at a banking corporation and deals with business decisions similar to this one). Everybody has their niche in society and the cogs don't turn if one profession is marginalized. Engineers are not any better or worse than anybody else - we can apply math and harness various forms of energy in different systems to achieve work, but Tom can out-customer-service me and Snoo can out-marketing me without a doubt.

The physics behind all of these companies' launches is the exact same. Some launches themselves might have identical circuitry in a different package. The number of variables behind business decisions can be astoundingly large. In this case, maybe Velocity's manufacturing is sourced in China and thus their product is super cheap. Maybe Dollywood and/or RMC values ethics and Velocity's manufacturing is sourced in the United States where their assemblers are receiving good wages and benefits. Maybe Velocity uses different, cheaper materials in their product. Maybe Velocity uses recycled materials in their product. Maybe Velocity patented some technology such that their product operates in such a way that it puts less stress on the electrical grid. Maybe Velocity's design was the only feasible design with RMC's trains. Maybe a combination of these reasons could be why they went with Velocity.

The bitching is pointless - soon enough the ride will be permanently open and functioning 100% and nobody will give a **** who supplied the launch system.




And for the record, this sort of bashing and singling out has become the norm since before Jarrett was a member.

 

[Jarrett]

^Meh, I wouldn't say we won't care once it opens entirely. If this is really state of the art and as innovative as the park and RMC are saying, they could be onto something. Schilke said it had no moving parts (which differentiates it from Intamin at least if I'm correct) so if one of the reasons this system was chosen was due to ride experience, downtime, or something else affecting guest experience instead of the park/manufacturer, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of these pop up once RMC and Velocity play with it a bit.

Will it change Lightning Rod's ride experience? No. Could this affect the future of this general magnetic launch concept? Perhaps.

 

[ST Dog]

Let's take it easy with putting engineering on a pedestal and referring to anybody else as 'normal'.

No pedestal, just we think different. I'm reminded of that all the time by my non-engineer friends (not always in a good way)

And I think you are wrong, some of us will still care what went wrong and why.

 

[ECG]

Maybe Velocity patented some technology such that their product operates in such a way that it puts less stress on the electrical grid.

This, sort of...
It not only puts less stress on the grid, but also charges in a different manner. It was all explained to me in detail last year, but basically uses a continuous storage system which saves energy and operation costs (depending on capacity).

 

[Jarrett]

^I think Thunderbird does something similar with flywheels. If I'm correct it gradually draws power from the grid to get a flywheel up to speed, and then converts the kinetic energy in the flywheel into electrical energy for the launch which in turn goes back to mechanical energy. Not sure if Rod uses flywheels or not but it sounds like it does the same thing somehow.

 

[Dar]

Velocity Magnetics filed for a patent to use a bank of ultra-capacitors to store the energy for a launch, hence the no moving parts claim from RMC. Maybe they're having trouble charging the bank quick enough?

 

[nealbie]

Maybe Velocity patented some technology such that their product operates in such a way that it puts less stress on the electrical grid.

This, sort of...
It not only puts less stress on the grid, but also charges in a different manner. It was all explained to me in detail last year, but basically uses a continuous storage system which saves energy and operation costs (depending on capacity).

So it kinda, sort of uses KERS?

Amazing <3

 

[andrus]

^I think Thunderbird does something similar with flywheels. If I'm correct it gradually draws power from the grid to get a flywheel up to speed, and then converts the kinetic energy in the flywheel into electrical energy for the launch which in turn goes back to mechanical energy. Not sure if Rod uses flywheels or not but it sounds like it does the same thing somehow.

Doesn't all modern LSMs work in a similar way? With generators continously charging power to avoid pikes in the electrical grid. At least that's the way Mack and Intamin launches work.

 

[Hixee]

^I think Thunderbird does something similar with flywheels. If I'm correct it gradually draws power from the grid to get a flywheel up to speed, and then converts the kinetic energy in the flywheel into electrical energy for the launch which in turn goes back to mechanical energy. Not sure if Rod uses flywheels or not but it sounds like it does the same thing somehow.

Doesn't all modern LSMs work in a similar way? With generators continously charging power to avoid pikes in the electrical grid. At least that's the way Mack and Intamin launches work.

It'd be pretty poor electrical engineering if they didn't, I would say! :lol:

Most systems [strike]will[/strike] should use some sort of energy storage in between launches to avoid crushing the grid every time they run. I'm no electrical engineer, but I work with a lot of them who do big, resilient power supplies, and there are many advantages to using energy storage. (In no particular order)

1. Cables are smaller, as your peak current flow is much lower. This is cheaper, safer, easier to design and easier to install.
2. Large buildings, and industries are metered differently. They often face hefty fees for causing power surges on the grid (especially when they're expected power surges like a magnetic launch), as this makes the power distribution more difficult to control.
3. Linked to the point above, often large installations are required to maintain a certain level of power factor (basically how "out-of-phase" the current and voltage are). All electrical equipment (capacitative and inductive) affect the power factor. Drawing straight from the grid into a launch system is likely to make a mess of the power factor, which faces fines and causes damage to components. You can do power factor correction, but you basically just end up installing a series of energy storage methods to try and reduce the effect (I'd be lying if I said I really understood the details of this however).
4. You can also protect the system from variations in the grid, which may cause inconsistent results in the launch.
5. You can also install regenerative braking, meaning you can recover some of the energy of the train as it hits the final brakes. This means you have to use less grid energy. Having seen the speed with which this coaster hits the brakes those magnets must be able to recover a lot of power!
6. They might have had difficulty getting a large power supply to that area of the park, so it's easier to have a smaller one.

You can see more information on the patent here:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20150091478

The sections of note (I've only skim read the document), highlighted in bold:

Embodiments of the present invention solve many of the problems and/or overcome many of the drawbacks and disadvantages of the prior art by providing systems and methods for energy storage and management. Systems and methods are described for using various tools and procedures for energy storage and management. A system of certain embodiments of the present invention may be referred to herein as an Solid State Energy Storage and Management System. In certain embodiments, the tools and procedures may be used in conjunction with launch devices. The tools and procedures may couple the system with a braking system that can harvest some of the kinetic energy and store the harvested energy for a future discharge or launch. In certain embodiments, the system may be about a 0.5-5 MW system.

It is especially advantageous to combine embodiments of the Solid State Energy Storage and Management System with embodiments set forth in U.S. Pat. No. 8,727,078 regarding magnetic braking systems, which is hereby incorporated by reference in its entirety. In this manner the energy can be efficiently harvested and a device, such as a vehicle, can be efficiently stopped. In U.S. Pat. No. 8,727,078, the air gap and stator may be used to harvest energy. Electrical energy generated by the current eddy braking system may be used to recharge the ultra-capacitors of various embodiments described herein. Thus the stators are not simply passive but utilized to lower the electrical need of the entire ride system. There may be a synergistic relationship between a braking system and the Solid State Energy Storage and Management System.

Certain embodiments may be useful when utilized in conjunction with a linear or rotary launch system to where a large amount of energy is needed to rapidly accelerate a vehicle or sled uni-directionally or bi-directionally in a very short amount of time. This system may also reduce the electrical service size that would otherwise be very large in terms of amperage to operate such devices. The high energy launch systems may require approximately 250-4000 or more Amps for approximately 2 to 3 seconds of launch time. Amperages for each launch of an exemplary systems may be greater than approximately 250 Amps, 500 Amps, 1,000 Amps, 1,500 Amps, 2,000 Amps, 3,000 Amps, 4,000 Amps, etc. Launch times for exemplary systems may be approximately 0.5 seconds, 1.0 seconds, 1.5 seconds, 2.0 seconds, 2.5 seconds, 3.0 seconds, 3.5 seconds, 4.0 seconds, and higher. The system can similarly be used in connection with linear induction motors, linear accelerators or other systems requiring large bursts of electric energy in a short time.
For certain applications, approximately 150 to 200 Amps for 45 seconds to 1 minute may be used by an average lift hill motor to accelerate a train from a beginning of the lift to the point of release at the top of a hill for classic gravity fed applications. For smaller applications, less energy is needed to power them through their duty cycle. Nearly all amusement parks have 200 amps available to them just about anywhere in the park. Therefore, certain embodiments of the present invention may be able to store enough energy within a period of 30 seconds to perform one launch with as little as 100 amps from a main power grid. In certain embodiments, the power grid may supply 100 amp, 480 VAC three phase power. In certain embodiments, the system is continuously attached to the power grid during operation. The power grid may be the only power supply available for the drive launch modules and motors...

Thus, certain embodiments may provide energy savings due to the decreased power demand and power grid overload that may occur launching a linear synchronous motor (LSM) system directly from the grid.

In certain embodiments, the input of a linear motor is completely isolated from frequency irregularities in the power grid, in that the power received is always received via the DC bus. In certain embodiments, vehicle propulsion can be achieved with greater consistency.

You can read the rest of the patent if you still care.

 

[ST Dog]

Crap, I missed Hixee's post that states most of what I did, but in more detail.

Velocity Magnetics filed for a patent to use a bank of ultra-capacitors to store the energy for a launch, hence the no moving parts claim from RMC. Maybe they're having trouble charging the bank quick enough?

Looks like you may be onto something there.
http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20150402 ... 091478.php

They specifically mention high current service (1kA+) and flywheel generators as existing alternatives to their claims.
Instead they suggest charging a bank of capacitors at less than 250A, but delivering discharges in excess of 4kA.

They mention recovering energy from the braking system too.


I can see Dollywood having difficulty getting high current feeds in, or prohibitively expensive given the location.

 

[GuyWithAStick]

So this has been reopened yesterday at around 4:30 PM for all guests. Hopefully all is well now!

 

[Hixee]

Don't think I've seen these two videos posted here yet:

[youtubevid]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4O86Iaq1dI[/youtubevid]

[youtubevid]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO1ZFfV9XPg[/youtubevid]

It's damn fast!

 

[GuyWithAStick]

**** me that's fast!

 

[Jarrett]

Jeeeezzz...

Can it be November yet???

 

[GuyWithAStick]

We have a POV! Just a fair word of warning, prepare for Ear Rape.

[youtubevid]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pxbZWPNRsY[/youtubevid]

Relentless, fast, and just orgasmic. I NEED IT NOW.

 

[Edward M]

9 DAYS 9 DAYS 9 DAYS 9 DAYS 9 DAYS

 

[Ben]

Dear Lord that looks AMAZING.

I wanna see a back seat POV so bad that's gonna be the sweet spot.

 

[Boris1981]

https://www.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters ... tentially/

Nice pov! However, the ride seems to be down at least until Wednesday because of storm damage....
I really hope they can fix the issue and continue to do soft openings without serious setbacks....Our visit might be during 6th until 10th, July. If they cannot get it up and running until then, we might cancel our trip and visit other parks instead.

 

[witchfinder]

WOW! Looks super-fast and smooth as silk... Exactly a year from today I will be at Dollywood - counting the days already! =D>

 

[Bat Fastard]

NEED NEED NEED NEED NEED NEED AND NEED! So orgasmic....