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32 hurt in Big Dipper Crash

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
I suspect a book being thrown at Blackpool in the very near future.

I keep thinking about this, and there is absolutely no way in the world this should have been allowed to happen. It's all squarely on the shoulders of unsafe procedures laid out by the Pleasure Beach.

Two trains should NEVER be on the same section of track. The procedure for despatching the trains was unsafe, and I think H&S will go to town over it.

jokerman said:
^That's what I'm saying. Whoever dispatched the train assumed that because the bell sounded, it was safe. They didn't use their own sight, and therefore missed the fact that it wasn't safe. This might just be the way they are taught to do it, so it isn't necessarily the fault of the ride op, but the training should now be changed.

Just to add, training may help, but there's an inherent flaw in the system. There is no warning or automatic shut down if there is a major fault while the train is on the track.

Sounds like they were very lucky to get away with it last week!
 

Ormerod

Hyper Poster
There have been many,many similar incidents in the past at PBB with various rides, my grandad also gave me one of his 'cracking' lectures a few years back about how he got injured on Grand National.

Obviously PBB have not done enough about these incidents.
 

marc

CF Legend
I have to agree with Furie on this, I think the book will be thrown at them now.

Furie you have said what I have been trying to say but get your point over better.

They may have got away with this operation in the past, purley by chance tbh.

Without proper blocking there is just no way the 2nd train should leave the station, plus it was empty so what was the point in sending it. They could have just waited.

But saying that we did have a crash on the cable car at Alton Towers as well.

Most people will remember how I left the live last year.

Thanks to a bent track on PMBO I done my neck and back in.
Big Dipper I broke a tooth.

Not good really.
 

jokerman

Giga Poster
furie said:
Just to add, training may help, but there's an inherent flaw in the system. There is no warning or automatic shut down if there is a major fault while the train is on the track.

I'm sure they will have to add to the system and change it so that extra safety measures are in place. It's just a shame that there isn't enough sense in the world for people to not be able to work out for themselves that they should wait for the train to get back before dispatching the next one.

Before I sound like I'm shunning all technology, I will say that I'd rather have extra stuff added to the system, as well as changing the procedure.
 

Dave

CF Legend
I'm sure they'll install electronic sensors on the ride at key locations with computer screens in the station monitoring the blocks.
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Dave said:
I'm sure they'll install electronic sensors on the ride at key locations with computer screens in the station monitoring the blocks.

They don't need it though Dave.

They just need to have a procedure in place where there is only one train on the circuit at any time.

Anyone else got any examples of two train operating coasters (outside of Blackpool :roll:) where they let a train onto the lift hill before the first train is heading into the station for onload?

Nemesis? Kumali? Stealth? Megafobia? Didn't think so...
 

A-Kid

Giga Poster
I know it would remove the classic operations, but I'd rather them get a PLC / Block system whatever its called. Best of both worlds. Better through-put, and safer with no human error.
 

CoasterKing

Mega Poster
They will have to do what they are told on this issue.

If the system has to change then it will have to change. Like people have said it doesn't matter about loading and dispatch times what's more important is that the system is safe.
 

marc

CF Legend
Tbh I think they are lucky to even open up until the investigation is complete.

I bet right now on all their coasters the 2nd trains are not being dispatched until the 1st one is round.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
My Daughter and I rode the Big Dipper last week on 3 occasions during our visit to BPPB.

On each occasion whilst we queued, or were sat in a car waiting to start the ride, the train waiting to go was held until the other train has arrived back in the station.

Once the other train was stopped the train waiting was released onto the track. It was a busy day, and the queues were no longer than that of a quiet day, so there didnt seem any pressure to move people through quickly.

So baring in mind what we witnessed that day, and in fact its been the same procedure everytime ive been there - I dont understand how 2 trains ended up on the track at the same time.

Things dont add up - as even if the operator accidently let the second train go he would have an opportunity to stop it before the pull up by stopping the pull up chain.

Bizarre.
 

marc

CF Legend
^Thanks for the post, I have only ever seen it operate that way as well.

There are a number of people on the station so surly one of them would have noticed if a mistake had been made. Your right it does not add up at all.
 

trav

Mega Poster
Maybe this was all set up by Amanda so that she has an excuse to tear the Big Dipper down!

[/Conspiracy]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Maybe someone just ****ed up big. It does sound like it is one huge human error. Just one of those things that happens once in a blue moon.
 

Martyn B

CF Legend
When PMBO had its crash, they didnt change the way it run.

When Avalanche had its crash, they didnt change the way that run either.

But they were both 100% mechanical faults, where as this more human error.

They don't need it though Dave.

They just need to have a procedure in place where there is only one train on the circuit at any time.

Whilst yeah, that is true, I think they need to something to reassure the worrying public. It would do the park wonders if on the news it announced that they had fitted a brand new braking system which would ensure the previous incident could never happen.

Just like on Infusion, one train cant be dispatched from the station until the other one has cleared the first brake run.

I think now though, on Big Dipper, they shouldn't dispatch 'a' train until they can see the other coming on the final strecth, but then this should really be in place already.

Each train can hold 24 people and the second train (apparently confirmed reports) was empty.

It didn't look empty on that video that was shot, well actually yes the train looked empty, but there were people standing around it. Why would they send the train round empty?

Also, apparently (not confirmed, but Bicko may be able to)- there's a sensor on the turnaround that sends an alert to the station.

But the first train only just made it to the turnaround, I tought the sensor was at the other end, by the little drop under Steeplechase, as when you here that bell in the station, give it a second or 2, and you can see the train then coming over the final couple of hills.

(What on earth must have been going through their minds when they were standing there, twidling their fingers, with no trains in the station!)
 

jokerman

Giga Poster
Everyone seems to be saying that this was human error, when in fact it wasn't. It was a procedural error. You can't blame the ride op, they were just doing what they've been taught to do, it isn't their fault. The fault doesn't lie with the electronic system either, it did what it was supposed to do. The fault is that the system wasn't adequate to prevent this crash on its own, and therefore the procedure for the ride ops should have been different.
 

Ormerod

Hyper Poster
This was human error, the ride op dispatched a train, which should not have been dispatched until that first train was at the brakes. That's an error as far as I am aware.
 

marc

CF Legend
The 2nd train was meant to be empty, makes you wonder why they were going to send an empty train?

As people have said, other fan boy sites have said the 1st train had not passed the sensor yet, so the 2nd train should not have gone.

People make mistakes but there are like 4 or 5 ops on at the time, surly one of them should have noticed that something was up?

People has seen on Infusion the 2nd train running with the 1st train still in the final brake run and not on the way to the station. So what happens if the brakes dont release the 1st train? another crash. I would have thought the 2nd train could only leave the lift once the 1st train had cleared the brakes?

Maybe people are making stuff up I dont know.

Problem is Blackpool have a bad rep after the PMBO crash when if I remeber right they turned off the MCBR and the train crashed into the one on the block brakes.

Anyway I will wait now for more information, if we ever get it.
 

tks

Strata Poster
This is all just a big excuse so that Amanda can tear it down to put in several big apples in its place. ;)
 
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