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Walibi Belgium | Kondaa | Intamin Mega Coaster | 2021

Trax said:
1. They say 4.8g, not the direction. That is important, as it can be the combined force. There is no statement around showing 4.8g vertical. We like to assume that they mean vertical forces, but we can’t tell unless specified.
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So are you saying Shambhala only pulls around 3.15 G's then? Because stats say 3.8
https://rcdb.com/10239.htm

I feel like you're pulling at straws here. We all know Intamin like to get up to 5 G vertical force. Are you going to tell me that every time they mention a G force stat they are talking about combined forces? Give me a break. 99% of the time, when someone says "A coaster pulls 3.8 G's" they mean the maximum vertical G force, if isolated.

Trax said:
Many people praise GCI for the small ejector pops, yet GCI themselves(!) say, that their trains are build for 0g at Max. Still, you feel those pops on GCIs. How are they doing it? Very quick transitions into low g areas.
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GCI are well known for making their rides seem more intense than they are with little forces, albeit strong laterals. Some people dismiss GCI saying they have a lack of airtime. There are definitely some moments where GCI's clearly give ejector, such as on the new Ghost rider, Apocalypse, and the back row in drops.

Lately GCI have been upping the airtime.

Still, a quick transition with ejector into a floater hill feels very different than a full on Ejector hill such as Superman SFNE or an RMC.

Trax said:
Luckily, the rules are very similar, so I can speak for both. SVs -2g are highly likely to be with a full train, hot day, rainy track and no trimming.
Trimms are actually helpful to keep a ride more intense, as you have better control about the intensity of an element. Airtime above -1g is highly regulated, and it gets even harder above -1.5g airtime.
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Have many times have I stated than conditional factors play a difference in how coasters operate day by day? I clearly agree with you on this statement, please read my posts before commenting.

Trax said:
4. Many people tried to inform you about the differences weight, weather, maintenance, time and other factors can make. The first elements won’t feel that different, but the longer the ride goes, the bigger the spread. I always try to measure long rides when they are warmed up to give a fair impression.
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Have many times have I stated than conditional factors play a difference in how coasters operate day by day? I clearly agree with you on this statement, please read my posts before commenting.

Trax said:
5.If
- purchasing a professional accelerometer
- designing and building custom parts for a secure mounting of all the equipment
- programming a special readout tool
- contacting the Marketing department
- flying to Energylandia
- getting my whole equipment personally checked
- getting an official filming permission
Is homemade for you, let me know. I haven’t been sitting in my basement playing around with FVD before I made my statements. We have invested countless hours until we even got the first usable measurement.
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It's still too homemade. And Energylandia seems pretty loose when it comes to that. I doubt you would have been given that permission most other places, without being Robb Alvey or enough reason.


I think this is the problem. You've invested so much time that you don't want to be wrong. The numbers clearly disagree with your findings, which leads me to believe your tests are inaccurate.

If companies like Intamin, Gestlauer, and RMC use No Limits to make mock ups of their parks, than I think creating a replica as close as possible shaping, and looking at the results there, is your most accurate bet.


Benni said:
I'd love to hear more about our project being bull**** from a guy, who doesn't know how many people are involved and who these people are, without even knowing what equipment or even knowing what software and knowledge was used.
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Well, you never told me how much was involved, silly :p

Benni said:
According to the older version of the DIN EN 13814 Hyperion would accelerate you with a maximum of around 5.25 g and a minimum of -1.4 g (vertical).
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See, this I would be likely to believe.

I heard a rumor that, with all the construction timing weirdness, Intamin we're trying to get it tested and approved on a slower day, when the numbers would fit within acceptable standards. If they're the same ones as these, that would make sense given the first drop probably has the back row weightless for more than 3 seconds.

So the coaster get's approved to operate at 4.8 G's, but in reality you're at 5.25 on a nice warm day.

--

Or your tests are just wrong

Benni said:
Furhtermore I still don't get your point, where you're claiming -0.8 g (!!) are nothing but floater airtime. Floater Airtime is around the 0 g (vertical) area. -0.8 to -1 g are like you were upside down. If that wouldn't eject you from your seat, you should eat less, to not get stuck in your seat.
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I may of miss-typed, what I mean is flojector airtime (to describe -0.8)

Most professionals, and enthusiasts (such as Alan Schilke, main designer for RMC) use the term "flojector" for that type of airtime. I'm sure you're familiar with flojector, It is indeed different, and that's a fact.

Benni said:
-0.8 to -1 g are like you were upside down.
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When upside- down, -0.8 can indeed feel more intense than when right side up.

There's still a big difference between old Schwarzkopf loops (where you feel pressed into your seat with no airtime) versus an RMC stall. The trick to the RMC stall, however, is the transition into it. There is always a pop of ejector during the roll before the zero G part, so you're already out of your seat, making you feel like you're hanging out of your seat more than you are. This way the element can be executed fast enough without risk of stalling due to wind, such as Monster at Adventureland.

Benni said:
If that wouldn't eject you from your seat, you should eat less, to not get stuck in your seat.
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Someone doing these detailed of tests should realize that G forces have nothing to do with weight. If a man weighs 250 pounds, and experiences -1 G, he will feel 250 pounds of force per second pushing him up, out of his seat. (I'm 99% sure this is how this works). If you're me, and weigh around 120 pounds, you will feel 120 pounds of force per second pushing you upwards.

Obviously there is some difference that various torso heights and stuff play into it, is my guess. If you were to somehow put a man with a 12 foot torso on Hyperion, I'm sure his G force experience would be far far different, due to his size in relation to the heartline.

flaffstar said:
We can't handle so much misinformation at once.
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Misinformation? I'm quoting real stats from RCDB and Wikipedia, which come from the manufactures and parks directly.

flaffstar said:
I don't know why the others are still arguing with you, there's no point in it.
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I don't know either!
 
Someone went out and used physical, actual equipment and you're still arguing using marketing figures and best-guess computer simulations? I'm sure an intamin can hit their quoted figures in the best case scenario, in the same way I'm sure every coaster ever built can hit their theoretical throughputs on a unicorn day.

This new beast looks super cool, I'd have preferred the original colour but the green isn't as bland as I first thought. They've got it finished quick, it seems like last I looked in here there was a half a coaster and a lot of dirt!
 
Jcoasters said:
Someone doing these detailed of tests should realize that G forces have nothing to do with weight. If a man weighs 250 pounds, and experiences -1 G, he will feel 250 pounds of force per second pushing him up, out of his seat. (I'm 99% sure this is how this works). If you're me, and weigh around 120 pounds, you will feel 120 pounds of force per second pushing you upwards.
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Do you realise what you are talking about? At first you completely dismissed my sarcastic comment on your twisted perception of airtime, and at second you still did not deliver any RELIABLE statistics. Instead you completely messed up the terms of velocity, force, mass and acceleration. Pound is a mass. A force is a derived unit from mass and acceleration (1 Newton = 1 kg*m/s²). Pounds per second isn't even a unit. 1 g means 9.81 m/s² of acceleration (as earths average). That means every second you accelerate by 9.81 m/s - I am pretty sure you tried to explain this to me, but failed miserably.

Go on, build your FVD Coasters and claim theoretical numbers to be the same as real numbers. Until now you completely winded through my argumentation and haven't delivered any factual arguments.
 
Not quite sure if this discussion about airtime, gforces and all that is really something that should be discussed here but okay. Maybe take it to another thread?

I really hope we get to see some more pictures of this coaster soon, especially the track on the way back to the station with all the little twists and airtime pops. Since this is my homepark I am totally riding this as soon as it opens!
 
I really don't get the whole argument, since it appears to be coming from one guy arguing about the forces of a ride he hasn't even been on.

Back on topic though, bloody hell that went quick, I swear there was still half the coaster left just a couple of days ago.
Personally, I still have my issues with the wall stall element and would have rathered it be a straight airtime hill or something, but everything else really has come together well
 
Benni said:
Do you realise what you are talking about? At first you completely dismissed my sarcastic comment on your twisted perception of airtime, and at second you still did not deliver any RELIABLE statistics. Instead you completely messed up the terms of velocity, force, mass and acceleration. Pound is a mass. A force is a derived unit from mass and acceleration (1 Newton = 1 kg*m/s²). Pounds per second isn't even a unit. 1 g means 9.81 m/s² of acceleration (as earths average). That means every second you accelerate by 9.81 m/s - I am pretty sure you tried to explain this to me, but failed miserably.

Go on, build your FVD Coasters and claim theoretical numbers to be the same as real numbers. Until now you completely winded through my argumentation and haven't delivered any factual arguments.
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Look, I don't know how this works. I'm a musician.

But, I do know, most people of various body types will experience ejector on an ejector hill and so on.

Dar said:
Someone went out and used physical, actual equipment and you're still arguing using marketing figures and best-guess computer simulations? I'm sure an intamin can hit their quoted figures in the best case scenario, in the same way I'm sure every coaster ever built can hit their theoretical throughputs on a unicorn day.
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If his equipment had said 4.5, I would be likely to believe the rest. But 0.65 is big difference.

Yes, the speed changed ride by ride. But:
(alt 7 numpad)

• The speed of the chain is adjusted
• dynamic trims are added
• speed is adjusted through mid course brake runs
• I'm 99% sure the type of lube and wheel is changed by season. I remember taking a backstage tour at California's Great America. They claimed to be one of the few parks that had a machine capable of re-doing the synthetic composite tire on the outside of the wheels, usually poly-urethane? idk. Either way, if I remember correct they used to export to other parks in the chain. When a ride is first build, they experiment with various "tire" composite material types until they get the one that most accurately matches the computer render.

While Hyperion doesn't have trims, it's certainly modern enough to have a chain lift with an adjustable speed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But, on a good run like you were riding, I see no excuse why the first drop should be off by 0.65 G's vertical.


--

Anyway, the ride looks great!
 
Jcoasters said:
Look, I don't know how this works. I'm a musician.

But, I do know, most people of various body types will experience ejector on an ejector hill and so on.



If his equipment had said 4.5, I would be likely to believe the rest. But 0.65 is big difference.

Yes, the speed changed ride by ride. But:
(alt 7 numpad)

• The speed of the chain is adjusted
• dynamic trims are added
• speed is adjusted through mid course brake runs
• I'm 99% sure the type of lube and wheel is changed by season. I remember taking a backstage tour at California's Great America. They claimed to be one of the few parks that had a machine capable of re-doing the synthetic composite tire on the outside of the wheels, usually poly-urethane? idk. Either way, if I remember correct they used to export to other parks in the chain. When a ride is first build, they experiment with various "tire" composite material types until they get the one that most accurately matches the computer render.

While Hyperion doesn't have trims, it's certainly modern enough to have a chain lift with an adjustable speed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But, on a good run like you were riding, I see no excuse why the first drop should be off by 0.65 G's vertical.


--

Anyway, the ride looks great!
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I think we all need to relax about this. The numbers someone has put out there are not going to make your experience of the ride better or worse, why can't we just appreciate the graphs for what they are and not get so defensive over it. But nonetheless, the airtime on this ride is going to be nuts.
 
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