Vekoma criticism

[T0M]

After being a member of these and other boards for a few months now, I've noticed that Vekomas, particularly SLCs, are generally heavily criticised among enthusiasts.

It seems to me that the problem is with the parks and the designers, not Vekoma.

Yes, they are not exactly silky smooth, but they are capable of climbing to great height and achieving great speed. It seems to me that anyone who purchases or designs one lacks ambition and ideas.

Jubilee Odyssey was originally planned to be twice the height it is now but the plans were opposed by local residents. Image what it would be like if the drop was over 300ft!

Also, imagine an SLC that was entirely enclosed, or went underground, or was build in a forest, or a pit like Nemsis! It's time that one was built around a proper theme or in a dramatic environment!

 

[Nic]

To me, it wouldn't make any difference. It's the roughness that I don't like, not the layout. Having a taller, faster one would surely only make it even more painful. With most of the existing SLCs that I've ridden, they'd be great if they just wen't so bloody uncomfortable.

 

[jjjjustin]

I believe that they are uncomfortable because the wheels aren't always touching the track like a b&m. so then when you go through a lateral turn the carts a pushed over and the lateral wheels touch when they weren't touching before. so when they finally do touch it creates a jerk or a sudden stop in movement as a car running into a wall. it is traveling then just stops. and your body would fly forward. but on a verkoma its when your body flys sideways hits the harness. :? at least thats how i see it.

I believe it is the same with arrows to.

next time you go on a verkoma/arrow look at the wheels when it comes in the station one of the lateral wheels is not touching.but on a B&M it is touching all the time :? sorry if confusing

 

[MouseAT]

It's got to be more than just the trains causing the problem though, as the rides get worse with age.

A brand new SLC (such as Kumali in its first couple of years of operation) is usually pretty smooth. As the rides age, they start to get rougher and rougher. Once you reach that point, you can put new trains on the ride (like they did with the Great NorEaster at Morey's Piers on the Jersey shore) and the ride will still be unpleasantly bumpy.

That's not to say that the gaps in the wheel assembly don't cause the problem by battering the track over the years, but the problem goes beyond just the trains.

A smooth SLC is usually great fun. If Vekoma could fix the problems with the rides deteriorating, I'd rate them a lot more highly. The layouts and forces are usually pretty good.

 

[Ian]

It's not just SLCs that are rough though, the sit-down ones are as well. Corkscrew at Alton was rough as Cherie Blair's arse after a curry and even the booster bike model judders more than Michael J. Fox during an earthquake.

It's unsurprising when you read on a forum populated by people who have ridden many coasters that Vekoma are renowned for roughness. I'm sure a casual rider wouldn't notice any roughness at all.

It seems to me that the problem is with the parks and the designers, not Vekoma.

Yes, they are not exactly silky smooth, but they are capable of climbing to great height and achieving great speed. It seems to me that anyone who purchases or designs one lacks ambition and ideas.

The parks that are likely to get a Vekoma are the "smaller" parks that don't have enough capital to be more adventurous than off-the-shelf Veokma models.

Parks with money to splash about will opt for a more premium manufacturer simply because they are offer a better all-round experience and build. Would you rather drive an Aston Martin or a Citeron? You drive what you can afford.

A park that invests in a Vekoma, doesn't necessary lack ambition and ideas, just the cash. I wouldn't say that Fantasy Island lacked ambition when they built Jubilee Odyssey...would you?

 

[T0M]

I wouldn't say that Fantasy Island lacked ambition when they built Jubilee Odyssey...would you?

Not at all, but as I said in my original post, imagine it TWICE it's current height as it was originally intended.

Also imagine Kumali being enclosed in complete darkness and you have a completely different ride.

 

[Ian]

I wouldn't say that Fantasy Island lacked ambition when they built Jubilee Odyssey...would you?

Not at all, but as I said in my original post, imagine it TWICE it's current height as it was originally intended.

Then we'd be probably saying it's twice as rough :lol:

 

[jjjjustin]

the flying Dutchman models aren't rough :? is it because the harness :?:

 

[andrus]

Also, imagine an SLC that was entirely enclosed, or went underground, or was build in a forest, or a pit like Nemsis! It's time that one was built around a proper theme or in a dramatic environment!

Is this a dramatic environment enough for you?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWRhvw7xlk[/youtube]

 

[IHeartArrow]

the flying Dutchman models aren't rough :? is it because the harness :?:

Batwing battered the **** out of my hips, so I wouldn't call it smooth. Firehawk was better but it's still really abusive on the hips during the Double In-Line Twist.

Vekoma's problem is not only the wheel assembly, but the design.

The track on all older Vekoma coasters banks and rotates around the train's center of gravity, not the heart of the people riding (hence heartlining coasters). That causes odd forces for things higher up (riders).

Pacing is another flaw. If you notice, most of Vekoma's coasters have a spot where it dicks around, moves too quickly, or too slowly. The SLCs are a good example, because the coaster isn't designed well enough to accommodate a 10 car train, the ride drags in some places and floors you with unnecessary force in other places.

Supports and track are another problem. If you observe a Vekoma, the track and supports bend/shake/vibrate more than those of other coasters (sans Arrows). Albeit coasters are designed to do that some, Vekomas do more.

Transitions on Vekomas are also less than fluid, if you compare a helix on a B&M or Intamin coaster to one on a Vekoma (like the Vekoma Corkscrew and Bayerncurves), the one on a Vekoma looks much more messed up. The changes in angle are abrupt and don't flow. If you just compare the way the track on a Vekoma flows, it's totally different than a B&M or Intamin.

Poor maintenance, bad wheels, and weather can also affect the way a coaster is running on a day or over a long period of time.
Bad wheels can be a big problem, as they used to be on Intimidator 305. If you were riding in a car with a bad wheel, it would vibrate like crazy. Vekomas and Arrows suffer a lot of damage to the guide wheels because they slam back and forth between the rails and that can mess up the polyurethane and make it wear off quicker.

I doubt adding elaborate theming or putting it indoors would make a Vekoma much better, if it sucks it sucks. Anyhow, the SLC has a good layout for a compact Invert, it's just Vekoma's flaws that make the experience much less than enjoyable.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I know Tim really likes Vekomas rides and I'm sure many more people do to.

They are, as far as i'm concerned, the most truly inovative of the companies. And at least their rides usually work as intended, unlike Intamins efforts.

As for their roughness... Their corkscrews are fantastic. (Not so much the entire rides called corkscrews, i mean the element.) I find B&M's corkscrew things headbangy.

Even at Disney, many Vekoma's lack the x factor. So It's not just the parks. But Expedition Everest, I thought, was fantastic even just as a ride.

Phantasia's Vekoma Minetrain is also incredible. Probably the best Vekoma I've ridden.

I don't know where I heard this, but I heard that Vekoma recommends replacing their wheels more than other companies advise. I assume to try and keep them smooth. But it's clear even Disney don't do this.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Phantasia's Vekoma Minetrain is also incredible. Probably the best Vekoma I've ridden.

Quoted for truth... Best Mine Train ever...


Unfortunately on the other end of the scale, they made Flying Dutchmans... As innovative as they are, what an awful ride Firehawk was... Never have I felt so ill after any ride before...

And sometimes the head-banging is already forced into our heads due to general opinion of their rides, some SLCs and Corkscrews are relatively smooth, just we're more likely to sense any head-banging cos of the rough tag that Vekoma has (deservedly in many cases)...

Oh well, Vekoma like all companies do good rides and bad rides...

 

[stuartredman1]

SLC

I have ridden batwing and mind eraser at six flags america. Batwing is smooth and enjoyable while the mind eraser gives me headache. I also noticed the top wheel rarely touches the track. IMO Vekoma has made some great designs and inovations but some are just to rough and uncomfortable (motorbikes,SLC, etc) While some are great additions to a park just starting out like the boomerang.

 

[OfficialAltonTowers]

Vekoma's are like Ikea funature, pre planned mass produced flatpack coasters, as Ian said Vekomas generally come as a matter of cost than enjoyability. If you want a truly awesome ride you would choose a custom made B&M or Intamin, Vekoma is the easy Quick option that many parks use just to say they have a new ride, The layouts would be enjoyable if the coasters were smooth, its not just a matter of the wheels banging arround, it as also caused by poor joint accuracy and sub standard track, which degrades over time.

I agree that Vekoma rides are potentialy Fun and i do enjoy them, but bloody hell they hurt. :x

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Topic is Dead.

 

[T0M]

Also, imagine an SLC that was entirely enclosed, or went underground, or was build in a forest, or a pit like Nemsis! It's time that one was built around a proper theme or in a dramatic environment!

Is this a dramatic environment enough for you?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWRhvw7xlk[/youtube]

That ride looks brilliant! Like I say, the environment makes for a much better experience. Longer indoor sections would be better though.

 

[Hyde]

The fault is in Vekoma's design, as previously mentioned.

B&M simply shows it is possible to have a MUCH better Invert design, leaving Vekoma losing every time.

 

[T0M]

...and I'm sure the difference in cost in very high.

 

[OfficialAltonTowers]

...and I'm sure the difference in cost in very high.

Hit the nail on the head, as i said before the only reason a theme park would choose a Vekoma over a B&M or an Intamin is Cost.

 

[Tim]

Hit the nail on the head, as i said before the only reason a theme park would choose a Vekoma over a B&M or an Intamin is Cost.

The only reason?
You wanna take into account that Disney- a company that spends upwards of 150 million dollars on single attractions -uses Vekoma for their rollercoaster hardware and reconsider that fact?

Vekoma is one of the few companies who are willing to step away from their standard designs and adopt an entirely new hardware system just for a single project.

That makes them very appealing to the big-budget park designers who want creative control over every aspect of an attraction, even the track gauge and construction

 

[Hyde]

^ And in all other cases, such as Amusement Parks who want a smooth ride that delivers, Vekoma fails! :razz: