c&r said:
mrclam said:
(with any luck the bnp supporter after he's been given a good kicking)
Nice bit of fascistic style discriminatinatory violence there eh clam? We all know how opposed you are to that
.
Whilst you do have a point about how aggressively discriminating against the ridiculousness of the BNP is by it's very nature curtailing the freedom of speech, there are plenty of legitimate reasons not to vote BNP apart from their allegedly racist stances!
C&A said:
As I think people have worked out by now, I support the BNP. Let's face it, the main parties are all ridiculously beige, have little or no policy, and have nothing better to do than quibble with each other over the wording of statements essentially involving cuts. Awesome.
Firstly, we'll ignore the public sector bloat that occured under the 12 years of Labour rule as that's only going to show that politics is about more than cuts. Duty is another example of where there have been no cuts at all, National Insurance is another, also 5-A-Day Co-ordinators, and the amount of powers signed over to Brussels, not forgetting leniency towards dope smokers, or MPs Expenses, suddenly the floodgates have opened!
But anyway, the idea that the main parties have fewer policies than the BNP is ridiculous, have you looked on their website? Their manifesto, if you could call it that, has been reduced to soundbites such as:
BNP on The Environment said:
Our ideal for Britain is that of a clean, beautiful country, free of pollution in all its forms.
BNP on Pensions said:
We are pledged to ensure that all our old folk are able to live in comfortable homes, and will restore the earnings link with pensions.
BNP on Health said:
We will revitalise the Health Service by boosting staff and bed numbers, slashing unnecessary bureaucracy and by addressing the root cause of low recruitment and retention - low pay.
The interesting thing here is that there is never any mention of how this is going to be achieved. Fixing the NHS and the pension crisis is an expensive business. The BNP are so far away from any real power, that they don't need a comprehensive and detailed policy on how they will achieve this.
Look at any of the major parties and you will see that their manifestos are significantly more detailed, and whilst they too pledge a clean beautiful country free of pollution, they also have concrete energy policies laid out in detail. Not someone in a pub saying "We need a more complete manifesto than just immigration. Hmmm, how about: Environment, we'll clean it; NHS, we'll fix it; Pensions, we'll increase them - wow, running a country is easy!"
a&e said:
I mean obviously the main parties are going to crowd the middle, median voter theorem and all that, but can't we get some change? Vote labour in, get a facade of social security. Vote conservative in, get the same thing, but with less facade, nice. People seem to vote based entirely on what they feel their station in society is: "oh I'm not a rich, upper class twat, I can't possibly vote conservative!", etc.
The parties are crowding in the middle, could this possibly be because that's where the votes are? Unsurprisingly, most people are what you'd call reasonable, i.e. they don't believe in total fascism or total communism (as neither have ever worked!) hence they fall in the middle and so the parties go with the voters. They are only going there because that's where the votes are. You should have stuck around unil the end of median voter theory 101
However, I will take your point about some voters voting where they feel their station is, but surely the BNP must be getting some of it's votes from idealistic youths who don't really understand how the world works or early middle ages men who have never quite made anything of their lives and wish to blame someone else for it
Stereotyping aside, the point is, people who are just voting anything are just as likely to vote BNP (in proportion to total votes) and besides, what about protest votes, Liberal Democrats are too big now to get a protest vote, so BNP must be getting a fair share of those.
d&b said:
Of the main parties, I wouldn't know who to vote for, as I have very little idea of what each party actually stands for. I know what everyone thinks they stand for, but since when has what the population think been a good reflection of reality?
So you don't know what these parties, which you have said are definitely all in the middle, actually stand for?
But obviously you've studied the BNP policies in depth, and as they "aren't just a bunch of racists" they must have lots of legitimate policies, I decided to venture back to their webiste and see what they had to say:
BNP on Transport said:
Congestion of our towns and cities must be eased by the provision of greater incentives to use rail and bus transport instead of private cars....
Motorists must not be made the scapegoats for government failure. Fuel tax should be cut, motorway speed limits raised, and hidden speed cameras should be banned.
Genius, a better public transport system will be available, but in order to incentivise people onto it, they are intending to make motoring cheaper and quicker than it's ever been?
BNP on Agriculture said:
Priority will be switched from quantity to quality, as we move from competing in a global economy to maximum self-sufficiency for Britain.
Excellent, so we'll produce less food, in order to maximise our self-sufficiency, even though we are already a net importer of agricultural produce! Of course, we could use more land, because that's not at a premium at all in this country!
BNP on the Economy said:
Accordingly, the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports. We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers.
Great, so we're all going to be using BMC vehicles to drive to the shops and purchase our Amstrad computers and... ... oh this is hopeless, I can't think of a single UK TV manufacturer. Still at least we'll have Dysons, so we can still vacuum!
BNP on Europe said:
At the same time, we are for the best possible relationship with our European neighbours and believe that the nations of Europe should be free to trade and cooperate whenever it is mutually beneficial, though without being forced into a political and economic straitjacket - political unification.
So, what's this mean, we can go and buy our BMWs and Mercedes after all, or that they'll still be limited, and in fact there will exist a political and economic straitjacket of their own design?
Not quite sure how this ties in with self-sufficiency in agriculture. The limited land we have will push food prices up, allowing people to buy in cheaper (and perhaps lower quality) produce, thus defeating the whole purpose of the exercise.
v&a said:
At least I know where I stand with the BNP. At least our nation will actually have a political party that means something instead of some watered down socialist party who have a love of social security or a party of immensely watered down ultra-conservatives who will, by name, change pretty much nothing, or if they do change anything , change things back to the way they were.
Do you
really know where you stand with the BNP? I do want to avoid finger wagging and needlessly calling them racist, but at the same time, any unproven party (and they are unproven, having never been in power) are going to have to develop detailed policies to make their manifesto workable, how do you know how these will develop in the way you would like and expect them to. What if the BNP achieve their policies of voluntary repatriation for say 75% of the immigrant population, then what next for them; Potentially forced repatriation, is that what you signed up for? is that what the majority of the BNP voters would have signed up for?
And as for Conservatives not changing anything, which party (for better or for worse) led us to enter the EU, introduced poll tax and then council tax, broke the Unions etc etc etc.
b&m said:
You may hate the BNP. I say well done to you. Well done for blindly following the masses. Well done for being pretentious and feeling that you have to support one of the main parties because that's what everyone else does. Well done for being sucked into group psychology. Well done for enjoying your power in numbers. Well done for thinking you're the height of logical thought and reason, while being completely close minded. I bet you're also an athiest :wink: .
It would almost be too facetious to point out that the current groupthink is that jumping off a cliff is a bad idea. But it's not as arrogant as saying "you're only voting for the main three parties because you're too lazy to have explored any other options, and if you did research them, they you were obviously too stupid to understand them".
s&m said:
I'll continue to hold my own opinion. It seems that I will continue to have very little valid argument thrown against me other than "U R SUCH A RACIST DICK" or "NICK GRIFFIN IS SUCH A TWATFACE". And perhaps when the BNP gain enough seats to <img> up the mainstream parties, and the main parties change - perhaps then, I will look at labour and conservative. But until that day, I will always vote BNP.
Good, well you continue to hold your own pathetic, irrelevant little opinion along with the other 7% (including protest voters who have no idea how proprtional representation works) of fellow BNP voters. God help us all if you do ever get into power, not because you're closet racists, but because your party wouldn't have a clue how to actually run a progressive, world leading 21st century country - sorry, was that too many "buzzwords" for you?
