Support UK Theme Parks this year...

[Serena]

Extreme examples of M&Ds aside, surely this applies to parks as well, no? Sticking a couple of RMCs on a car park was more likely to attract me over the last few years than the best themed park in the world.


So grass roots music isn't important? Interesting. Whilst I know some artists / bands are plants, I didn't think it was all of them, and I'd always thought the opposite, that supporting grassroots music was important. It's the main reason I would go to gigs of bands I don't know / never heard of, that and the hope of possibly finding somebody I like. Probably saved me some money there, I've only ever ended up following one new to me artist I saw in a grass roots venue. (Well two, if you include BBC introducing tents in that. I tend to think of that as similar to plants though, if the BBC have picked you up already, you've good as made it.)


First part is unnecessary, you don't have to explain / justify anything. The tone of that makes me fear I've caused offence with my analogy. That analogy was just something I thought you'd relate to, that's all, no offence intended. The same way I use pubs, a lot, as an analogy. Nor do you have to justify how you want to spend your own money. That was never my intention, to make anybody feel like that, and I feel bad now if that's what you think I was doing. My intention was just to highlight the plight of parks at the moment, and suggest anybody that can do, and actually 'wants' to, to visit more of them sooner rather than later. Originally to maybe 'gamify' it, but only for those who wanted to take part.

As I said before, you do you. And what you said, earlier in your reply about music, applies here too. What people will want, and what people value in parks, will vary from person to person. If you don't want to spend money on smaller UK parks, and aren't bothered if they survive or not, then don't. But if you want to see them survive, and be here in the future, then now's the time to support them more than ever, if you can (and want to!) Ultimately, that's the point here.

I want to say again, genuinely sorry if I caused any offence, that wasn't my intention, especially if you thought I was bringing personal circumstances into things with the intention to cause offence, as your reply suggests. I wasn't, it was just something I thought you'd relate to. And also, something I feel the same way about, having supported grass roots bands / venues in the past, on the basis of being told it's good for music to do that. So from my perspective, I see this as being very similar, if not the same thing.

No, no offense taken! Just didn't think your analogy worked Especially when the main reason people go see bands is when they love their albums. People will go see an artist they love in a tiny pub with no lighting or flashy pyro and love the show because they love the songs.

A 'take home' media equivalent is not the same for theme parks. People don't listen to rides at home and grow attached to them in that way, thus changing their enjoyment of a ride. So it's just not a valid analogy. There's way too many other personal factors when it comes to enjoyment of live music.

I will say, it felt a little bit like you were implying my band were the musical equivalent of M+Ds, ie: "where would I be if people stopped supporting my band like a small park?"

When fans buy a ticket to our show, they're not generously donating to my band, they pay to come see us because they like the albums we make and like the show we worked years to develop. The show is the thing the fans want and we work to deliver that. Tbh, we have invested and grown in the band in ways that crappy small UK parks havent

As an aside, we have been played on BBC radio one countless times, and Ive been interviewed on BBC...it doesn't mean you've made it. At all. How things look from the outside of the music industry is not how things really are.
 
I guess what I'm trying to say here is, as someone who doesn't work in a pub, I probably wouldn't use that as an analogy when talking to you. Because all I would know about it is how I see it from the outside.

As stated in my original post, I appreciate the generousity of wanting to support smaller parks. I guess my main question is: why? Does it really matter if we lose parks that aren't good?

I'm going to put a smiley face here to indicate the entire tone of this discussion for clarity

I'm enjoying the debate! No offense taken!

 

[Nicky Borrill]

No, no offense taken! Just didn't think your analogy worked Especially when the main reason people go see bands is when they love their albums. People will go see an artist they love in a tiny pub with no lighting or flashy pyro and love the show because they love the songs.

A 'take home' media equivalent is not the same for theme parks. People don't listen to rides at home and grow attached to them in that way, thus changing their enjoyment of a ride. So it's just not a valid analogy. There's way too many other personal factors when it comes to enjoyment of live music.

I will say, it felt a little bit like you were implying my band were the musical equivalent of M+Ds, ie: "where would I be if people stopped supporting my band like a small park?"

When fans buy a ticket to our show, they're not generously donating to my band, they pay to come see us because they like the albums we make and like the show we worked years to develop. The show is the thing the fans want and we work to deliver that. Tbh, we have invested and grown in the band in ways that crappy small UK parks havent

As an aside, we have been played on BBC radio one countless times, and Ive been interviewed on BBC...it doesn't mean you've made it. At all. How things look from the outside of the music industry is not how things really are.
 
I guess what I'm trying to say here is, as someone who doesn't work in a pub, I probably wouldn't use that as an analogy when talking to you. Because all I would know about it is how I see it from the outside.

As stated in my original post, I appreciate the generousity of wanting to support smaller parks. I guess my main question is: why? Does it really matter if we lose parks that aren't good?

I'm going to put a smiley face here to indicate the entire tone of this discussion for clarity

I'm enjoying the debate! No offense taken!

Well that makes sense... But absolutely not, not even in the slightest. (I haven't been to M+D's, nor have I seen you live.)

Several years ago, there was a huge campaign nationally, or campaigns actually, to support grassroots bands, and venues, especially venues. (Why didn't I just specify venues originally, that would have made this way easier, and likely have made more sense too, since venues are most definitely just businesses.) Anyway, I think these campaigns are still going strong now. to be honest. We were pretty much told that if we didn't support these venues, and the bands playing them, then we risk losing music as we know it. That was the inspiration behind my analogy, I'm sorry it didn't come off very well.

Anway, glad we've cleared that up. (I do like a good context emoji.)

As for does it matter. I think that's personal. It matters to me. Even though I've never visited half of them. I hadn't heard of Paulton's Park until they struck gold with the pink pig. Any one of these parks could, down the line, be the next success story, if they make the right moves. Universals aside, we're way more likely to see current parks grow and improve, than ground up parks being built. But that can't happen if they become housing estates. Plus I think that as much competition as possible, is always good, in any industry.

Having said that, I did allude to a niggling doubt I have, earlier in this thread. What if the current climate just trims the fat a little, leaves us with plenty of competition still, but that competition comes from the bigger parks, like Drayton, BPB, Mingo, etc. Would less smaller parks mean more guests for these mid to large size parks, and thus more money to invest and improve?

That may well be the case, but either way, I don't think these issues will just affect smaller parks. I think some of our favourites may well be affected too. Blackpool's accounts shocked me, after they had just announced the new flat. But I guess that was distractionary tactics. It wasn't their losses for the year that were the most worrying, it was the overall balance sheet. :/

 

[Graeme]

This is one of those debates where both sides are right. Parks aren’t charities, true, and you can’t make people like what they don’t like. There’s no point in a thrillseeker going to a park without thrill rides.

And yet I still think the campaign has value, for three reasons:

Firstly, a little bit of goodwill goes a long way. On social media, I see much enthusiasm for all parks, including the “lesser” ones. A lot of criticism too, but that’s fair. I also see a lot of vlogs for the more minor places nowadays, which can only help promote them. Perhaps this is a tool to help a fightback that wasn’t there to the same extent in the past.

Secondly, the country - any country - is better when local things are strong. Arguably, it’s better to have a lot available within a two hour drive than to have to travel further. The at-risk parks are places that people have had real enjoyment at, and have huge potential for the future. But once it’s become a housing estate, it’s harder to get back.

Thirdly, it’s a cliché, but I find life’s better when you stop and smell the roses. I don’t know why, but things seem to actually get better when you appreciate and enjoy them. I spent many years not going to parks because I didn’t agree with the choices, and to be honest, I’d have had more enjoyment if I’d just kept going to them. Sometimes you forget how much you enjoy things, or underestimate something that’s not on your radar.

But yes, the ball’s in their court. You can’t push water uphill. The campaign is a gentle reminder, if nothing else. We need a creative spark from the parks themselves; then we can support them. Personally, I do see signs of effort from a lot of them, so hopefully we’ll see the fruit of that soon, and look forward to a bright future.