Roller coaster interaction
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Lofty
CF Legend
I cannot agree with you more. It just felt awkwardly placed in the area now, Flight of the Hippogriff feels more in place...Hyde244 said:[Indeed. I am quite perplexed over Dragon Challenge - it is a remnant of a previous theme, and sits very awkwardly in Harry Potter World. Previously the gem of the Lost Continent, it now feels like it is presented as a sideshow to the Hogwarts castle.
There's actually viewing areas dotted around the Lost Continent area to view the ride as a spectator, but they're not very commonly known or easy to get to, which is a shame.Joey said:
I don't actually think they're bad at all. Some of the elements in both coasters are actually VERY good and they broth provide great rides at the front & back. But I see what you mean about them not being totally awe-inspiring. But then again, I don't think anything at IOA is (apart from Spiderman <3 ), even though it is a great park to spend a day in.Mark said:
Mark
Strata Poster
My issue with it is that it was clearly designed for the sole purpose of the duelling interaction and it really shows in an RCT kinda way. Straight section of track > straight section of track > oh crap we need to be two squares over, chuck in a corkscrew. There are many dead spots of nothing in the coaster so they can pull off the duelling spectacle but as you saying, the viewing areas are hard to find and besides they no longer duel. :-(
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I don't think, as rides, they are bad... But I do think like Mark says it's obvious that their design is entirely focused on making them duel. And in doing so, it's left a lot of "dead spots". That would be fine, the fact they duel is more of a spectator thing anyway.... But it seems that in making them duel they've also not been able to account for spectators properly. A few windows here and there to look at it from afar wouldn't be good enough even if they were known about (and them not being known about is half the problem - what's the point then??). In a perfect world, the loops should have been visible side on in CLEAR VIEW as you approach the ride. You should be able to get underneath the ride at some place and you should be able to see it, unobstructed, from most places. Or at the least, it's dramatic elements poking out above and around theming. The landscape under them is just...nothing. There's a dirty pond that no one notices other than in photographs, and then access paths... I realise that making them duel would have made other aspects of their layout difficult, but this is Universal. I feel about Duelling Dragon's how I do about Darkastle. Busch should have never thought they were skilled enough at pulling off something like Darkastle... It's a good ride, certainly by most people's standards, but the comparison's with Spiderman really, really show it up. It's not good enough, and it makes it look ****. Universal should have been capable at making Duelling Dragon's work, but even they weren't. And then to go and make it worse with a rebrand? FFS.
nadroJ
CF Legend
Even the positioning of them, particularly now that Potter has taken over, perplexed me. They're like, tucked away in a corner, and in a kind of ditch, so the only time you get to see them is if you are specifically queuing for the ride, and even then I've never seen the queue spill out of the castle, so any time you may be static in that queueline you're inside.
Madness.
Madness.
I'll throw in another roller coaster that leaves a lot left to desire... Maverick.
Don't get me wrong, it is one of the best roller coasters in the industry, and is indeed a very good looking roller coaster. But if I were to draw one flaw, it is the positioning of the roller coaster.
First, let's jump back to 1982. White Water Landing, the world's tallest log flume, has just been built at Cedar Point. At this point in time, it would be the star attraction in Frontier Town at the back of the park (Mean Streak would not be built until 1991). A simple log flume design, the ride consisting of floating around, a small drop, more floating around, and then a large drop. However, Cedar Point altered the pathways to accommodate for the log flume, particularly focusing on a spectators location for the final drop and the turn after the first, small drop (which is within the rock work pictured below).
Now let's jump to 2005. White Water Landing is torn down and preparation is begun for a new roller coaster. We eventually are left with Maverick, which utilizes the old White Water Landing station as a queue (which is admittedly cool), but otherwise is not a natural fit for the area.
Yes, we do have the picturesque photo of Maverick's sweeping turn and first drop over some water, which is seen on a footbridge just at the beginning of Frontier Town.
But how does the coaster look from other angles?
For the lift hill, it is hidden behind a Chick fil A and the old Frontier Carousel Pavilion, separated by a row of trees. Not very visible. You can see the drop clearly - but at the same rate will always find spectators standing on picnic tables behind the Chick fil A, craning their necks to see if a member of their party is riding yet.
Further, majority of the ride layout is only visible from the train/perimeter road. It is a gorgeous layout with sweeping turns and hills - but is utterly lost on guests viewing from within the park.
The ride is viewable from the queue entrance, at which point you can see the "Horseshoe Roll", but the real part of the ride that is most visible is the brake run. And call me crazy, but seeing 3 trains stacked in the brake run is not necessarily the best part of the ride to make most visible.
What I'm getting at is while Maverick has a very active layout, that much is not actually seen by spectators. It is still plenty notorious among park goers, but does not perfectly sit in a dwelling originally designed for a log flume.
This is ultimately splitting of hairs by a fanboy. Maverick is still my favorite steel roller coaster in the world. Cedar Point worked well in the space given, but no designer would ever want the "iconic" picture of their roller coaster sign to also feature all of the rides trains sitting in the brake run.
Don't get me wrong, it is one of the best roller coasters in the industry, and is indeed a very good looking roller coaster. But if I were to draw one flaw, it is the positioning of the roller coaster.
First, let's jump back to 1982. White Water Landing, the world's tallest log flume, has just been built at Cedar Point. At this point in time, it would be the star attraction in Frontier Town at the back of the park (Mean Streak would not be built until 1991). A simple log flume design, the ride consisting of floating around, a small drop, more floating around, and then a large drop. However, Cedar Point altered the pathways to accommodate for the log flume, particularly focusing on a spectators location for the final drop and the turn after the first, small drop (which is within the rock work pictured below).
Now let's jump to 2005. White Water Landing is torn down and preparation is begun for a new roller coaster. We eventually are left with Maverick, which utilizes the old White Water Landing station as a queue (which is admittedly cool), but otherwise is not a natural fit for the area.
Yes, we do have the picturesque photo of Maverick's sweeping turn and first drop over some water, which is seen on a footbridge just at the beginning of Frontier Town.
But how does the coaster look from other angles?
For the lift hill, it is hidden behind a Chick fil A and the old Frontier Carousel Pavilion, separated by a row of trees. Not very visible. You can see the drop clearly - but at the same rate will always find spectators standing on picnic tables behind the Chick fil A, craning their necks to see if a member of their party is riding yet.
Further, majority of the ride layout is only visible from the train/perimeter road. It is a gorgeous layout with sweeping turns and hills - but is utterly lost on guests viewing from within the park.
The ride is viewable from the queue entrance, at which point you can see the "Horseshoe Roll", but the real part of the ride that is most visible is the brake run. And call me crazy, but seeing 3 trains stacked in the brake run is not necessarily the best part of the ride to make most visible.
What I'm getting at is while Maverick has a very active layout, that much is not actually seen by spectators. It is still plenty notorious among park goers, but does not perfectly sit in a dwelling originally designed for a log flume.
This is ultimately splitting of hairs by a fanboy. Maverick is still my favorite steel roller coaster in the world. Cedar Point worked well in the space given, but no designer would ever want the "iconic" picture of their roller coaster sign to also feature all of the rides trains sitting in the brake run.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I'm not sure it matters with Maverick. My main criticism of Cedar Point is that, by majority, the rides are show offs with little substance, relying on nothing more that sheer size to win people over. And it works. Size is a powerful advertising tool because it's its a quantifiable thing that seems to amount to something. The problem is that, in reality, it doesn't amount to ****. Large coasters are generally dull, and Cedar Point's are the poster children of that fact. Whilst it's opinion that Millenium Force is pants, it's not opinion that it's tame.
Maverick is interesting, because it so wildly flies in the face of the park's style. It's a genuinely intense coaster, and most importantly, it's really small. It's also, unlike the others, about more than JUST one thing, but a collection of things which amount to something bigger.
The strangest part? Maverick is popular with the public. Despite being so small, despite being hidden away, despite not looking that impressive, or scary, or imposing... It's popular. Whilst some of that will be through word of mouth, I believe that a lot of it is in part down to the indoors coaster phenomenon, where indoor rides which are otherwise really average get long queues out of people's curiosity. Maverick intrigues guests, perhaps in part due to how it's hidden away. The glimpses you to get of it convey such a mixed message and leave you not knowing what to expect.
Maverick is interesting, because it so wildly flies in the face of the park's style. It's a genuinely intense coaster, and most importantly, it's really small. It's also, unlike the others, about more than JUST one thing, but a collection of things which amount to something bigger.
The strangest part? Maverick is popular with the public. Despite being so small, despite being hidden away, despite not looking that impressive, or scary, or imposing... It's popular. Whilst some of that will be through word of mouth, I believe that a lot of it is in part down to the indoors coaster phenomenon, where indoor rides which are otherwise really average get long queues out of people's curiosity. Maverick intrigues guests, perhaps in part due to how it's hidden away. The glimpses you to get of it convey such a mixed message and leave you not knowing what to expect.
Intricks
Strata Poster
See, I think it is the opposite. They built it with downplaying the intensity in mind. It shows you the major elements, but it trully falsifies the intensity it really has. You dont see the ground hugging turns, the snappy transitions nor the powerful second launch. The way it seems to lazily crest the first hill really misinforms those waiting to what is really in store for them. The rider interaction, while minimum from walking up to the ride, portrays a fun, gentle ride, while hiding the intensity that it really showcases.
Granted the sign could be in a better spot.
It fits with Cedar Point perfectly. 'Go big' wont always refer to height, and Maverick is the perfect example. I dont think it intrigues guests as much as lulling them into a false sense of security for the reasons I stated above. I also believe because of its mass difference drom all that is Cedar Point, is another reason people flock to the ride. It just seems to shout "I'm different and unique! LOVE ME!"
Now, a ride I think perfectly toys with this misguiding of intensity (to an extent) is Voyage. Its rider interaction is pretty low, with only the brake run, a queue flyby/under and up to the first hill being visible within the park. Seeing the train speed undernath and then overtop of you at the brake run is stunning. Its quick, its loud (ish) and you get a sense of forboding because of the speed it hits the brake run. When you finally get to the station and enter the line, the train zooms underneath you before hopping back out on the other side, with what I would guess to be a very quick and VERY loud flyby if they opened up the cattle pen that day.
I ten to appreciate a more minimalist approach in how the ride interacts with those waiting; however, Phantoms Revenge is just bad ass when the only thing really hidden from onlookers not waiting in line is the depth of the second drop. Thats really the only ride I really enjoy being able to see it all, because you are directly forced to watch how far down you trully go, and the quick hole through Thunderbolt just doesnt seem large enough (I guess kinda like Oblivion in a sense).
Indoor rides bug me because you do kind of get a feel for it just by looking at the building size. Granted you dont know what is inside, so you are undoubtedly drawn to it as Joey has said. Although the Italian Job/Stunt Track coasters really arent able to be judged properly, so I guess are pardoned from my general issue.
Granted the sign could be in a better spot.
Joey said:
It fits with Cedar Point perfectly. 'Go big' wont always refer to height, and Maverick is the perfect example. I dont think it intrigues guests as much as lulling them into a false sense of security for the reasons I stated above. I also believe because of its mass difference drom all that is Cedar Point, is another reason people flock to the ride. It just seems to shout "I'm different and unique! LOVE ME!"
Now, a ride I think perfectly toys with this misguiding of intensity (to an extent) is Voyage. Its rider interaction is pretty low, with only the brake run, a queue flyby/under and up to the first hill being visible within the park. Seeing the train speed undernath and then overtop of you at the brake run is stunning. Its quick, its loud (ish) and you get a sense of forboding because of the speed it hits the brake run. When you finally get to the station and enter the line, the train zooms underneath you before hopping back out on the other side, with what I would guess to be a very quick and VERY loud flyby if they opened up the cattle pen that day.
I ten to appreciate a more minimalist approach in how the ride interacts with those waiting; however, Phantoms Revenge is just bad ass when the only thing really hidden from onlookers not waiting in line is the depth of the second drop. Thats really the only ride I really enjoy being able to see it all, because you are directly forced to watch how far down you trully go, and the quick hole through Thunderbolt just doesnt seem large enough (I guess kinda like Oblivion in a sense).
Indoor rides bug me because you do kind of get a feel for it just by looking at the building size. Granted you dont know what is inside, so you are undoubtedly drawn to it as Joey has said. Although the Italian Job/Stunt Track coasters really arent able to be judged properly, so I guess are pardoned from my general issue.
I think that's what was most refreshing about Maverick. Cedar Point does have a blatant culture of building the tallest and fastest roller coasters in the world; 11 of it's 16 roller coasters opened as the world's tallest, fastest, or most inversions of its genre in its debut year. The last time Cedar Point did not have a major roller coaster break any world records was Iron Dragon in 1987, 20 years prior to Maverick's opening.Joey said:
In many ways, Maverick is not Cedar Point.
Yet what it lacked in world records it made up for in layout and design, as Intricks has pointed out. The lateral g-forces experienced during those sharp turns is bonkers. The pops of ejector airtime are some of the best in the business. And let us not forget those great overbanked turns.
Cedar Point has seemed to become an icon for over-the-top coaster design. This can result in "overrated" giant footprints of roller coasters that are big on looks but short on substance, as some will argue about Millennium Force (It's still my #5 steel coaster). But Maverick breaks through the repetitive message of "bigger is better" and creates one of the greatest roller coaster experiences out there.
So in many ways, Maverick is Cedar Point.
I'm glad you mention Phantom's Revenge Intricks. I will get it off of my chest - Morgan Hypers have always been underwhelming to me. They try to recreate the Arrow Hyper experience, but never seem to get the formula right. Phantom's Revenge was a bold undertaking to convert a doomed Arrow multi-looper into a fast Hyper. Morgan was successful, and created a roller coaster that seems to interact better with its surroundings than the original. I'm still not a fan of the quirky airtime hills at the end, and the "double" drop, but the speeding turn cutting close to the foot traffic and Thunderbolt does give a great visible feel for the ride.
I'll throw Lightning Racer out there as well as a good interacting roller coaster. It could have easily been a bomb of a GCI dueler coughGwazicough. Built on a flat plot of land, next to a water park. Yet the layout is VERY visible from the foot paths, with easy tracking of the coaster trains.
Storm Runner too has a great fit in its niche of Hersheypark. It is an awkwardly hidden niche, but a niche none the less. It skirts so much around the park with its string of inversions, giving some great visibility of the ride, enough to strike fear into on lookers.
IntaminToWin
Mega Poster
Personally, I love how the finishing points of Millennium fly really close to the station and queue.
Surprised nobody's mentioned Great Bear, either. With that roar and the flyovers of the pathways (specifically the zero-g and pop over SDL) it's still the dominant ride in Comet Hollow, even with Sky's intimidating-as- **** hill looming there.
Actually, Comet Hollow is an just an orgy of ride interaction.
Surprised nobody's mentioned Great Bear, either. With that roar and the flyovers of the pathways (specifically the zero-g and pop over SDL) it's still the dominant ride in Comet Hollow, even with Sky's intimidating-as- **** hill looming there.
Actually, Comet Hollow is an just an orgy of ride interaction.