Queues

[SaiyanHajime]

I've been thinking of writing an article (essay? Essay...) about queues for a while now. I've grown a bit obsessed with them.

So I thought it was worth having a topic here in hope it highlights something I've not thought of covering and hopefully adds more perspective!

So here's some pointers to get you discussing...

What interests me is the queue is where guests spend the majority of their day and yet, most queues are not just meh but really, really bad. So bad they actually make the attraction at the end of it worse.

I believe that waiting is just so ingrained as a negative experience, that attempts to distract guests with theming or pre shows, unless done well, can backfire. Guests just want to get to the main event, even if the main event isn't very good or if the preshows actually make up part of the entire experience. A good example here would be Hex.

That said, when attractions have zero wait time, I think that contributes to a less impressive experience of the attraction also! I think guests need to wait 5-15 minutes for rides in order to appreciate them and stop them repeating them and exhausting the park. The queue is a pause, a breather in the day, and contributes to atmosphere by standing with other excited guests and being forced to watch the ride and scenic queue elements, etc.

There are lots of irritants in queue lines... What are they? Lack of rain or sun protection, queue jumpers, loud noises, uncomfortably narrow paths, paths that are too wide causing guests to bunch up and potentially queue jump... Tell me more!

Examples of good queues? Bad queues? Examples where the attraction is bettered or hindered by the queue?

What do you think of fastrack systems? The original fast track concept was presumably to spread guests out around the park and counter the natural flow towards major attractions in the morning or after lunch? Anyone got any sources or info about the intended results from Tussauds original virtual queue at the British parks or Disney's original introduction? And did it actually work? Did it actually solve the problems it set out to resolve? Anyone got any links to the maths behind it? I'm sure I read an article once concluding that fastpass actually makes the problem worse.

I personally dislike all fastrack schemes, because if you're in the stand by line, those with fastpass going past you are infuriating. That irritation is not worth it. In it's different incarnations it favours those with more money or those who know how to work the system, and that's just not fair. Fastpass + is blatant fun-removal by encouraging planning way too far in advance, parks should be about discovery and adventure, not passing a theory exam on how to cram it into one day.

 

[jayjay]

Good idea for a topic. One thing I like in a queue is a feeling of progress. Assuming the queue is advancing at a reasonable pace, I want to feel like I'm moving towards the end. Queues like Rita and Stealth are particularly bad examples where you enter the queue and meander around a cluster of twisted paths with the promise that there's a ride at the end. I think the reason things like that frustrate me is that it can make a very long line appear very short. Nemesis might be a poor example on account of its amazing throughput, but you can really appreciate the progress.

I think guests need to wait 5-15 minutes for rides in order to appreciate them and stop them repeating them and exhausting the park

I like queues that mentally prepare you for the ride. I'll bring Nemesis up again because I think it's very well designed. If you use the full queue, you start by walking up into some trees with a glimpse of the lift-hill drop-off and the main circuit through the trees. You continue through to skirt around the edge of the main ride area next to the rivers of cherryade... or blood, whatever. The action gets closer and closer, culminating in the bridge, which is right next to the fastest point on the ride. By the time you enter the station with the awesome Nemesis soundtrack, you're in the right state of mind to enjoy it. Queue-rider interactions usually get thumbs up from me.

 

[nadroJ]

As somebody who appreciates 'walk-through' attractions from everything from horror 'mazes' to things like the Aladdin walkthrough to the fairytale forest at Efteling, I have never really understood why parks don't strive to incorporate these into the queueing experience? As Joey has already mentioned, one of the only rides I can think of that actually does this is Hex, but then Hex gets accused of never really having much of a queue, and instead just a bunch of preshow rooms. I would argue that in a way, a bunch of preshow rooms building up to the ride is far more preferable than a cattlepen. Even things like walking through the 'Tour de Force' recording studio before riding Rock N Rollercoaster feels to me like it's all part of the attraction, and the only real 'queue' bit is the hideous metal cattlepen outside. Once I'm inside, with things to look at and read and listen too, I'm immersed and don't mind hanging out in these rooms half as much as I mind standing in those cattlepens.

For me one of the best queues I've ever experienced is the one for Wodan. It has the perfect blend of the classic meander in and under the physical ride structure so you can kind of gauge what you're up against for a while and then you enter the building and there's just SO much going on that it feels like the experience has already begun before you even take a seat. I love the theatrical set up power of the queueline and feel like rides such as Wodan would be a lot less of an awesome experience were you able to walk straight on to the thing. So basically, I'm not saying that you should have to 'read' what the queueline is trying to tell you in order to fully enjoy the attraction itself, but it should all feel like part of the same experience, not a bit you are desperate to skip.

That said, I feel like the mythology/fantasy them offers a lot more opportunity to do this than something like, say, Fury 325. I feel like American parks are the worst offenders for vile queuelines. Yes Stealth's queue can be gross on a hot day but at least there is some shade. Too often during my visits to America have I been stuck in a queue in the blazing sun with little to no refuge and a sweating black tarmac reflecting that same sun back into my face. I don't understand why parks choose this style (well, I do, it's because it's cheap) when not only does it look ugly it's also very uncomfortable for guests to wait around in.

Something I have always found to be a very calming and relaxing environment to queue in is one in which I am surrounded by foliage. Foliage not only offers protection from the sun but it also offers slight protection from wind and rain too as well as creating cool shady environments, blocks out some sound when dense enough and is pleasing to the eye. This is an example of where one doesn't have to 'do a Wodan' in order to provide a comfortable and acceptable space for one to queue in. I would argue that the queue for Dragon Falls would be a fairly pleasant one, through the 'forest', if it weren't for the annoying 'WISE DRAGON SAY' at EVERY train dispatch. Irritating as all hell.

I also don't think sound effects are necessary because, in the lengthier queues, you're eventually going to come to the end of the soundtrack and those effects are going to eventually become repetitive and annoying. Something like an instrumental track or even just 'natural' sounds is far preferable. I feel like subtlety is probably the key with sound in a queueline.

That's all I can think of for now but I'm sure more will pop up.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

I pretty much agree with everything that's in the previous few posts. I think if queues are too short and you just hop from attraction to attraction, experiences might become muddled and you end up forgetting details of certain creds and rides. Some of the most memorable times during Lives and stuff were also in queue lines because people are in such close quarters, which means it's pretty hard to not have some laughs.

That being said, I don't like long queues. I HATE waiting, but I don't mind waiting 10-15 minutes for something. Half an hour is about the point where I start getting impatient, which makes me sound like a five year old, but I get grumpy in lines. It tends to ruin the experience for me, whether there's shows or a decent theme or whatever. Obviously things to look at makes it less boring, but it doesn't help the situation fully.

I think a good example of a ride that builds up anticipation without much theming is Top Thrill Dragster. The location of the queue is fantastic for building up the nerves, especially if you've never been on it before. Verbolten and Expedition Everest also have pretty nice queue lines, but I'd still rather not wait.

A vile queue that stands out to me is Ripsaw Falls. BLEGH. Or Super Manege at La Ronde, which has absolutely no shade and it was 120 degrees when I went.

 

[GuyWithAStick]

Goliath at SFGAm is very bad. The queue was entirely cattle pens, with the first half of them being temporary fencing. And only the last queue block has shade.

I agree with most everything said. Small, interactive queues are the best. I also like the rides with 0 switchbacks. My favorite example is Mr. Freeze at SFStL.

I can't think of much else that hasn't been said. :-?

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Rollercoaster David]

some standouts would be the 2 harry potter rides at Universal Florida. If you take the single rider path you just miss out on so much!

 

[ATTACKHAMMER]

For interesting queues I would say Dragon Challenge is up there. It is bloody massive and combines things to look out in an indoor and outdoor setting.

I like queues which aid the attraction, like Dragon Challenge but hate boring queues. A stand out boring queue for me is Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit. There is shade but it is just so hot! Plus every two seconds the tv screens and music play, so by the end of the queue you feel like you have a PHD in how to choose a song on ride.

I find Merlin queues generally boring, the exception being Smiler. I think that the caged in, unpleasantness works with the theming.

I adore Space Mountain's queue. The music is just perfect and the interactive entertainment is good, along with the lighting and things to look at.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Queue-rider interactions usually get thumbs up from me.

Me too. I actually think being able to watch the ride you're about to go on from the queue is one of the best forms of entertainment there is when waiting in line. That can't just be because we're interested in rides, can it?

Even things like walking through the 'Tour de Force' recording studio before riding Rock N Rollercoaster feels to me like it's all part of the attraction, and the only real 'queue' bit is the hideous metal cattlepen outside. Once I'm inside, with things to look at and read and listen too, I'm immersed and don't mind hanging out in these rooms half as much as I mind standing in those cattlepens.

I'm funny about indoor queues and RnR is no exception. I think it's a personal dislike with those kind of really modern ordinary world themes that, imo, are boring. But also because most indoor queues have awkward lighting and annoying sounds, as well as being weirdly claustrophobic? Transformers was a weird exception to this rule, where I noticed the sections of queue that did have annoying noises or lights for thematic build up where VERY short. Too short for that to have been coincidental. Almost as if someone who designed that queue wasn't an idiot. It was remarkable. I think Universal in general have very good queues that don't try to hard and accept that some forms of queue entertainment top all overs. Video is a really great distraction, especially if the video is actually interesting, and I thought Transformers did a pretty good job of being interesting but not integral to me understanding the ride, so if I zone out to chat to friends, it doesn't matter.

As Joey has already mentioned, one of the only rides I can think of that actually does this is Hex, but then Hex gets accused of never really having much of a queue, and instead just a bunch of preshow rooms. I would argue that in a way, a bunch of preshow rooms building up to the ride is far more preferable than a cattlepen.

(snip)

I'm not saying that you should have to 'read' what the queueline is trying to tell you in order to fully enjoy the attraction itself, but it should all feel like part of the same experience, not a bit you are desperate to skip.

The thing is... I think guests would always choose a simple line over a bunch of preshows and distractions and batching areas. Because they don't understand how batching works, and that causes frustration. With something like Hex, I would guess that once most guests enter that first preshow, they start to wonder if this is "all this is". By the second preshow, they're certain, and that overides much of their potential enjoyment because they think a simple story walkthrough isn't worth their time. By the time they get on the ride, they're going to misunderstand the preshows not as queue distractions that increase the amount of people being entertained at any one time, but as things that delayed them being on the ride. The ride being the only thing thats actually worth their time. I bet you this is the case, and if you told people there are preshows they can skip, they would. This is a problem. and so is coming out of a preshow and into a queue, that's frustrating too. Gringott's was baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad for this. That elevator is great, but to be thrown out of that immersion and into a poorly designed cattle pen for glasses collection where the two elevators spew people out, causing those who were behind you to skip ahead - eugh, no! No no no.

Something I have always found to be a very calming and relaxing environment to queue in is one in which I am surrounded by foliage. Foliage not only offers protection from the sun but it also offers slight protection from wind and rain too as well as creating cool shady environments, blocks out some sound when dense enough and is pleasing to the eye.

Foliage is such a big deal. Foliage literally creates breeze. Being too hot is a major queue line irritant. Foliage helps that in so many ways. It's also great at hiding litter. It looks nice. It's a really easy way to add theming to sparse areas. It's only downside is that it requires significant maintenance or it becomes a hazard, where as parks can leave fake rockwork to rot and get away with it, but the benefits far outweigh the cost of maintainance.

I adore Space Mountain's queue. The music is just perfect and the interactive entertainment is good, along with the lighting and things to look at.

Im in two minds about that queue. The interactivity adds sound irritants, that Nadroj talks about in her post. It also awkwardly causes that "do I go on ahead even though I know this person is in front of me but distracted playing a game". And the way fastpass can literally waltz on past is a MAJOR annoyance. The music is good, and until you get into the station area, lighting is okay too. The lighting in the station is DISGUSTING though, and so is that mess of a cattlepen. Fastpass literally eating HALF of it's capacity makes me want to die also. That is gross. And the way it's so OBVIOUS to guests in standby even more gross.

So, I disagree, Space Mountain (at least in Florida) actually has a really terrible queue that happens to have nice music and a game to play, if you can get a place, which is another annoyance - Feeling less entitled to play the game because you're not an annoying child, and so feeling guilty and giving your space to a **** kid.

No.

Interactivity sucks.

I challenge anyone to find an example of queue line interactivity that isn't ****.

The ultimate WORST is Epcot's California Screamin' oh my GOD... I don't even want to talk about it it makes me so angry.

Disney suck at queue lines.

EDIT: I mean Soarin', not California Screamin. Wtf. Sorry. Brain derp.

 

[Gavin]

The ultimate WORST is Epcot's California Screamin' oh my GOD... I don't even want to talk about it it makes me so angry

Do you mean California Screamin' at California Adventure or something else at Epcot?

I agree with a lot, but not all, of what Joey says really.

Interactive elements - games and such - are a bad idea. What are you supposed to do when someone in front of you is on one and the queue has moved on? I know that immediately filling the space created isn't going to affect my waiting time, but if you don't move, you're left with people behind you getting all distressed about it. The worst I can think of right now is Winnie the Pooh at Magic Kingdom. It should be a good idea to keep kids entertained in the queue, but it moves so quickly anyway that none of them are in front of the things long enough to worth bothering. Result? Queues being held up and/or screaming kids getting pulled away from something they were enjoying. They don't work.

I've got a lot less sand in my ass over preshows though. I don't think people are as dumb as you think in thinking that they're getting on a ride any quicker, although that absolutely could be the case on quiet days. In some respects, having a bit of a queue after a preshow reinforces the idea that you'd have been waiting anyway since you can see the people in front of you.

However, parks need to get the balance right. Mystic Manor does it quite well. You've got the preshow that explains the story (not that it's totally necessary) and introduces the characters, then you go into a second, very short queue that doesn't take longer than a few minutes at most. You'll very, very rarely walk into an empty area, meaning that you know you haven't just wasted time in the preshow, but you're also left with a minimal wait.

I'm generally a fan of indoor queues, providing they're themed, have stuff to look at and are AIR-CONDITIONED. If they're not air-conditioned, I'd much rather be outside.

I half agree about Disney not being great with queue lines. I find them to be inconsistent. You get a few that are actually good to excellent (Snow White in California, Peter Pan in Florida, Journey to the Centre of the Earth, Mystic Manor, Indiana Jones and the TOT rides...), but they're usually very non-descript. Universal mostly, but not always, kicks their arse in that respect.

Mystic Manor is a strange one since it's not particularly interesting, but it feels "real". I've actually heard a couple discussing how it was a shame that there was "such a lovely building, but they're making us come in through this crappy old basement". The "lovely building" is a total facade and the whole thing is 2 years old. Brilliant. It's pretty much the only decent queue in HKDL though. Big Grizzly Mountain is ok while being quite generic and not particularly interesting, but that's pretty much it really. Hopefully, there'll be something decent with Iron Man since they're making it more of an "experience", so we'll see.

My all-time favourite was Lotte World's Pharaoh's Fury, but they've since totally scaled it back and, while still decent, it's a shadow of it's former self. It used to be 1km long, starting with various rooms of an Egyptian museum and moving through into various tombs and passages. It was brilliant and set the ride up perfectly. I used to go in just for the queue at times since there was so much to look at.

Now, I'd have to go with the two Harry Potter rides at Universal. Even though they both had single rider, which was great as it meant plenty or rerides, I did the full queue once each to get the "whole experience". I do agree with your point about the remaining queue after the lift on Gringott's to be a bit much, but it's still very atmospheric.

I was expecting a lot from Dragon Challenge, but it's actually a pain in the arse. It's too long and even though it's done well, there's not actually that much to look at. You're walking through it for longer than you're waiting for the coaster at the end of it. Dudley Do Rights was also f**king abysmal.

I think the worst, as has been mentioned, are just the outdoor cattle pens with little to no shade and nothing to look at. In some respects, they can give you an indication of how long the queue is, but they're often quite deceptive, and the absolute boredom makes them feel longer anyway.

 

[Hyde]

Great points all around.

I too am not bullish on interactive tech/games while queuing. I guess I fall into the school of thought that putting lipstick on a pig still makes it a pig - distractions still do not negate the fact that you are waiting in a queue.

In which case, I favor nicely placed queues that are aesthetically pleasing and physically comfortable. Be it an indoor queue with tasteful theming, or an outdoor queue with sun shades that overlooks a roller coaster; these are queues I am perfectly happy in. I am especially a fan of water misters that you find at many Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks.

I see queuing as the one genuine moment where you actually have time to visit with friends while at the park. Otherwise, I often try to craft the park visit as always being on the move outside of queuing. As long as I can visit with friends and wait in relative comfort, I am a happy camper.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

I've not been on Dragon Challenge, but the original Duelling Dragons queueline was an absolute stunner... Even if the actual length of the queueline itself isn't required (was it ever?), it was full on sensory stuff, gorgeous thing... Sounds like a shame it's a real shadow of that now...

The best queues at the end of the day are the ones that don't stop moving, which is why things like Eurosat and EuroMir at Europa aren't as awful as they potentially could be... Blue Fire's queue is alright too, not that I've ever been in it properly...

The best queue types are those that focus on the ride interactivity, with maybe a touch of theming (Wodan being a good example of this)... Nemesis does this quite well (and was assumably better when the old extension was open), and what does help it is that it's not just a dull cattlepen where you see the same elements constantly over the same 30 mins you're stuck in it...

As an aside, I kinda have a soft spot for Thirteen's queue, as because it's stuck down the bottom of the area it really does feel separate and you're going deeper into the woodland... At least until you go under Rita and it completely ruins the moment...

 

[PeskyTrimBrake]

As much as I hate waiting in queues, if the queue is comfortable enough to wait for atleast an hour and a half then its good enough in my book.

While an interactive part might not always work out (*cough* New Test Track *cough*) at least having one piece of interactivity, if it keeps me doing something instead of being on my phone, then I'm satisfied enough. Some good examples the interactivity have kept me entertained were the Space Mountain mini games and the Big Thunder Mountain queue in WDW. While they weren't game changing, It helped me pass the time. But I can agree with Joey in that interactivity might not be the best way to go to make a charming queue.

A pre briefing show in a queue is a great element while queuing. It keeps me hyped and tells me what the ride is about. It also sets the mood like in the Haunted Mansion at Disney Parks which gives it a "spooky" yet out of this world feeling. But not all rides deserve a pre brefing show. (The Dark Knight coaster in SFGAdv. I mean, what the ****. Really?!)

The theming is probably my favorite part of queing for some rides. I'm a big fan of Disney queue theming. Expedition Everest being my favorite, sets a story and the mood for the ride at the same time. Pirates of The Caribbean is another great example of great theming after the renovations when the movie came out. It gave it that immersive feeling of being in the movies and it genuinely felt like a true Disney ride. Of course if its a water ride, an indoor queue is a terrible idea if its airconditioned. Rip Saw falls is probably a terrible idea for an indoor queue considering that its **** humid and freezing inside.

Overall, I'm satisfied with queues that dont make you uncomfortable and/or have a theming aspect. Like Hyde mentioned, even having simple water mist machines with shades is good enough for me. But some charming queues stand out from the rest that make that ride unique and a reason to like queuing for the ride.

 

[Ian]

The best queue lines are those with variation. They appear to wind all over the place, go up ramps, around interesting things, under/over the coaster, over bridges and so on. Standing in a queue is monotonous so having something to distract the queuer (queuee?) without interactive button pressing stuff is great.

Subtle distraction is the key and one of the best examples is Helix at Liseberg. It might look like a soulless multi-storey car park but chuck in some lights, varying levels, walkways, ever-increasing rhythmic music and an app game where the whole queue can participate and the time flies by.

It's quite funny how we move through a queue for an experience where we are, in effect, stationary. It's during the queue where we all look at things and physically move from A to B. When we are on the ride, we are not moving, the train/boat/car is doing the moving and we (usually) get off where we got on. Although a ride does have a mental and physical adrenaline effect on the rider, most of the anticipation, discovery and excitement occurs through the rather pedestrian queueing; the part where the rider is still in control. Every step forward that the rider takes, they are doing so on their own free will. There's no turning back once the lap bar is down and the ride op gives the thumbs up.

Queueing, although a burden most of the time, should never be viewed as a negative element of an attraction but as part of the whole experience. I wish parks would spend as much time designing a queue as they do the ride itself.

 

[Hyde]

Well said Ian. I especially like the notion of good queue lines having "variation" or "subtle distraction," definitely something to be learned for the larger amusement parks here in the U.S. While there are some good queue examples, majority only focus on how to keep guests orderly while maximizing queue line size over a given space. And don't get me started on in-queue food and beverage service...

I'm not familiar with Helix's app, but assume it is some game where you compete against other users in line? Very cool notion that would be simple enough to implement in other parks if true, and would definitely liven up the party. (Granted if there is the capital to develop such an app)

 

[Pokemaniac]

I seem to recall a PTR from a while back from a somewhat famous park in the Far East. I think it's Japan, but could be Korea or even China. Anyway, instead of waiting in a queue riders would be assigned to a seating area. I think the TR was Gavin's work, or loefet, but either way it should be notable enough for several of our members to know about it. Could somebody who do elaborate on that one?

Other than that, I'm with Ian on this subject. Variation in queue lines is awesome, and designing the queue should have more thought put into it than "this is where people wait before they can get on the ride".


As for notable queues I've experienced myself, I think Helix' deserves a mention. The queue goes all over the place (though it's concrete all over, so it doesn't have overly much variation, though lighting and plants do create some atmosphere), it barely stops, and it's interactive in its own little way: The ride has its own app with a little game for you to play, and a scoreboard is continuously updated on screens all over the queue.

Last, I wonder if this thread might be a few years too "late", or at least if how we're looking at queueing is changing. The introduction of smartphones and Wi-Fi (or other forms of Internet connection whose English names escape me) means that many parkgoers will have all the fun of the Internet at their fingertips while waiting for the ride. Standing in a queue isn't necessarily boring any more, as people are starting to carry around practically unlimited entertainment wherever they go. Maybe the main concern of the queues of the future - aside from the temperature, humidity and such - will be whether or not there is good Internet coverage in them? At least I can see Disney offering streaming of some of their ubiquitous cartoon shorts in queuelines to ease the wait. With that catalogue at your disposal, waiting could be a rather fun experience even if the queue is moving at a snail's pace.

 

[Hyde]

^ Park-wide Wifi is an interesting concept. I know a number of parks have landed agreements with cell carriers to build cell towers directly in the park to boost reception. (The Cedar Point water tower as such an example)

Park-wide Wifi would be a natural progression forward, and depending on topography of the park could prove difficult for broadcasting signal. I'd like to think it is an opportunity on the table however for parks - many parks are already busy installing wifi into their hotels.

 

[Ian]

Joey retweeted an link yesterday to an article that cements the fact that people spend a lot of their time at visitor attractions staring at their phone.

http://www.blooloop.com/features/attrac ... ST3tVyJmZw

Most people are using their phones to inform others where they are (I've always believed that heavy users of social media are narcissistic).

So surely the time when people are looking at their phones is when they are stood still or trying to kill time. Ie: In a queue. This means parks should put more photo opportunities, not only for selfies but interesting views too, in their queue lines. Or perhaps have some sort of interactive game app like Helix.

There is an art to walking along a path and keeping people interested. I find queueing fascinating. Sometimes we do it as a necessity, like in a doctors surgery or in the supermarket, but we also do it for fun. Those places where fun is the name of the game should take those paths more seriously imo.

 

[mouse]

I think there is a strange sense of community in a queue line, which I quite enjoy. Everyone is in the same boat, and theres an excited and tense mood that everyone is feeling. I often find myself talking to or at least acknowledging other people in the queue, and there is lots of talking and interaction in the line as opposed to silence/people looking down at phone screens. Theres always someone who is riding for the first time and is very nervous, and often all the people around them (from different groups) are helping to comfort them. I can imagine for many people the queue can be stressful, what with the anticipation of the ride and the crowd of people packed closely together making it claustrophobic.
So yeah, I like the sense of togetherness and excitement created in a queue line.

 

[Pink Cadillac]

Tower of Terror's queue at DisneySea is so strong imo that it completely overshadows the ride itself. Harry Potter at IOA is similar in this way too. Obviously, every other park will not have the money for things like this, but queues that keep moving and offer a range of dynamic views can be good enough.