NEMESIS: SUB-TERRA [Alton 2012]

[Lofty]

I don't know if it being a prototype is a good thing. Look at windseeker. Brand new idea for a ride turned out to be a bust on Cedar Fair's part. The one on ABC's sit doesn't look that intense, the storytelling and theming better be top notch. I think it all really depends on how tall it is.

Sorry, but to be fair. This is a ridiculous comment. If you think a Prototype is a bad thing, that's pathetic, in that case, we'd have absolutely nothing in the industry, as you can probably track every single ride type back to an initial prototype of some kind. So, yeah, prototype means nothing really.

 

[Venom2053]

^ Im not referring to any coasters. I'm talking specifically about this ride being a prototype. If its not done right it could be a mechanical nightmare (like the HUSS Jump 2) and if the theming/story isn't good it won't be worth riding. I didn't say anywhere that prototypes in general being a bad thing. Look at Oblivion, prefect example of how something new can pay off.

 

[Lofty]

^ Im not referring to any coasters. I'm talking specifically about this ride being a prototype.

Yes, as I am, I'm just saying that you're not thinking logically at all. If we didn't have "Prototypes", we wouldn't have any rides worth talking about.

Examples below;

Harry potter and the Forbidden Journey.
Intamin 1st, 2nd & 3rd Freefall Towers.
S&S Power - Any products...

To be honest, I'm not going to bother with a whole list...

 

[Venom2053]

I don't know if it being a prototype is a good thing

Again Lofty you've miss understood what I was saying. I'm not saying prototypes are bad I just don't think it was wise for them to invest in a flat ride that hasn't proven itself as a reliable system. I talking about this ride specifically. Its possible that it could work out very well for Alton, but I have a nasty feeling that if the theming doesn't hold up this ride won't be worth jack.

 

[Lofty]

Ha. This is ridiculous. You're just going around in circles. I understand FULLY what you're saying, but what I am saying is, just because IT is a prototype, isn't a bad thing, at all, it doesn't matter if it's a prototype or not, it's still inevitable it's going to have problems, every ride does.

To sum it up in an easy sentence so you understand it; PROTOTYPE DOES NOT MEAN IT IS GOING TO BREAK DOWN MORE THEN A "STOCK SHELF" RIDE.

 

[Venom2053]

To sum it up in an easy sentence so you understand it; PROTOTYPE DOES NOT MEAN IT IS GOING TO BREAK DOWN MORE THEN A "STOCK SHELF" RIDE.

Thats not always true but yes your statement does hold some value. The main question I wanted to raise was will it be worth Alton's time and money? This ride will most likely be overshadowed by the new SW7 coming the year after. Was it a wise investment and will it last?

 

[Aaron]

It depends I think on how they work the story and bring it together. Clearly they are going to be trying to get some sort of encounter type thing going, which is risky because if they get it wrong it could be a total disaster, but I do have faith that they know what they're doing, it's a massive thing to try so they must have a good plan!

I genuinely think they can pull it off, time will tell however as to whether they actually do...

 

[SaiyanHajime]

A dark ride just by default is perceived differently, and I find (at least in the UK) that they maintain queues for many years. Whether that's because they have the allure of no one knowing what to expect and thus not judging the ride as being too tame or too scary which brings in a wider audience, or just the allure of the unexpected in general, or to do with the damn weather, I dunno... But they do get solid queues.

What they don't do particularly well is bring guests to the park in the first place, or they certainly don't do it anything like the scale any outdoors ride you can put on the TV and make to look impressive does anyway. They are hard to advertise. They are experience based entirely, where as a coaster is a very visually aided thing where the way it looks will massively change your experience of it.

They aren't, if you notice, really pushing the fact that this ride is a prototype. Maybe that's because it's not. But if it is, that probably means that it's not a prototype for the sake of it, but just because they wanted something that does something in a very specific way. I don't get the impression a ride type was picked and the rest of the experience was built around it, I get rather the oposite. Which is the way it should be done, and the way I wish more rides were conceived.

I think they probably wanted a new narrative driven dark ride, since it's been 10 years since the successful Hex the other aim is to revitalise interest in Nemesis, which in the public's eye isn't worth shouting about anymore.

 

[Lofty]

I think they probably wanted a new narrative driven dark ride, since it's been 10 years since the successful Hex the other aim is to revitalise interest in Nemesis, which in the public's eye isn't worth shouting about anymore.

This is very factual. Someone from the park (who's pretty high up), spoke to me about it, we're friends of friends and such, met him at Scarefest.

He said, in his own words; "The intention, so I believe, is to create an immersive story-led experience like Hex".

To be honest, I'm looking forward to it, if it's not amazing, at the end of the day, I won't lose sleep, it's a new attraction to the park, I'm happy!

 

[nadroJ]

Thats not always true but yes your statement does hold some value. The main question I wanted to raise was will it be worth Alton's time and money? This ride will most likely be overshadowed by the new SW7 coming the year after. Was it a wise investment and will it last?

It's something different, unique and apparently enhancing to the Nemesis story. Of course it was a good investment. It compliments the area perfectly and I'd much prefer this than some pay per attraction where I get to watch dirty little kids climb a wall for a fiver a go.

 

[Brookes]

I agree with the above; a dark ride with a good storyline is hard to come by, and Hex is certainly a fantastic example of one of those. However, this year is 12 years since it opened and it is still really popular, showing that the rarity of these rides outside Disney/Universal makes them very appealing when one comes along. Combining this type of ride with a drop tower using the Nemesis story receives a big thumbs up from me.

 

[Lofty]

In my opinion, they need to go in, close Hex, tart it up somewhat, add a few new elements of special effects and then re-open it.

 

[Ben]

Yeah, I would LOVE to see them tart Hex up a little bit.

Not LOADS cause it's already awesome, but, just a bit.

Maybe do something extra in the Octagon room, cause, the statue is a bit gay.

Ehhh.

 

[Aaron]

Yeah, hex is pretty good already I think, just needs a bit of TLC to get it back to top notch

I think last time I went the lightning effects weren't even working in the octagon, that's one of my favourite bits!

Alton can do a good dark ride, so hopefully this will be another really good one to add to the list.

Thinking about it, everyone's going in about the drop will be rubbish etc, hex's ride system is fairly standard isn't it, nothing amazing but putting it in the experience it's perfect for the finale to the story, I'm thinking this will be the same, especially with them highlighting pre-show areas on the plans

I've said it before I'll say it again, some sort of disturbance while in the elevators down would be great!

 

[Mark]

I just want to play Devil's Advocate here... Now I love Hex, I think as an overall theme park experience it is one of the best BUT, it hasn't always been easy for Hex. If I remember correctly the ride was not particularly well recieved by the masses when it first opened. Mainly because people didn't know what it was. Similar happened when they opened the 'Fifth Dimension' at CWoA (later becoming Terror Tomb and now Tomb Blaster) because people didn't know what it was etc.

Joey has mentioned the marketing difficulties for dark rides, because its very hard to show people what it is without giving the whole game up. Dark Rides often require some element of surprise otherwise it just doesn't work.

Hex had a massive marketing campaign when it opened. I remember the adverts (which were awesome) being on TV a lot but the attraction did struggle to be cohesive and understandable to a mass audience and it also went through some edits in its opening season. Thankfully, it weathered that storm and seems to be reasonably popular to this day. There is always at least a small queue for it and it does seem to please the people who do ride it. I am not saying that all dark rides struggle but I do wonder what the response to this new attraction will be?

I wonder whether the same will happen again? I suppose it all depends on the marketing and what they reveal outside of the ride. IE will they reveal the drop-tower element of the attraction? - if that is what it is

The vast majority are completely unaware of the story that surrounds Nemesis and so its not like they are building on something already in the mass consciousness. In fact, this is going to be more like they are telling the story for the first time.

I imagine I will adore the ride and the overall experience because it is Nemesis related and that whole story just fills me with happy but I wonder what everyone else will think. I can almost imagine it now... ooo it went of too long and it was a crappy drop etc. A lot of people couldn't give two hoots about the fantastic story they are being told and just want the 'thrill' element.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I had no idea Hex wasn't that well received. I've always observed that dark rides seem to have longish queues. That could be bad throughput I guess?

I remember it's adverts too, and remember wondering wtf it was. I thought people liked that, which is why I was so confused when they decided to market Thirteen the way they did.

I think it's funny how the marketing has gone from seeming like it was conceived by the same minds as the ride (Oblivion, for example) to seeming like it was conceived by a bunch of 12 year olds who had nothing to do with anything (Thirteen). I don't now why this is the case, at all. I don't know if Thirteen's marketing was a bad judgement, misunderstanding some research they done, or whatever. Or if actually it did well and we just perceive it as bad? At the end of the day, our opinion as enthusiasts doesn't mean anything anyway, it's how the public receive it that matters and it's hard to judge that. It must be hard to work in marketing and get it right, to be fair. I mean think of the stuff we hear about why they won't get a wooden coaster. Seems insane, but if that's the kind of data they have to work with, then it's kinda easier to understand what's going on.

 

[Mark]

Initially I believe they struggled with Hex because it was less cohesive, or at least that is what I was told. I know they changed the queue-line preshow to make the story a little simpler to follow for instance.

And yes, I daresay that Sub-Terra is going to be a difficult thing to market. It all depends on how much of a surprise element they want. I thought the whole point of Th13teen was the the element of surprise about the drop and they went and made it obvious in all the posters etc that went out. That always confused me.

If this is going to be another 'drop' type attraction I would like to believe they wouldnt make the same mistake twice and they would let it be a 'surprise' but then how else can they market it to actually get people to the park and on the ride?

And yes, I agree that it does seem that the Marketing is kept totally seperate from the ride design/story writing etc which is really bizarre. Yes they are two very different departments but you would think that they at least meet and ensure they are all singing off the same hymn sheet. There are times when the link between the two is very poor (13)...

I do hope that this (and The Swarm whilst I think about it) has marketing that suits the ride after the abomination that was 13.

 

[Ollie]

It's true that Hex didn't do very well when it first opened but as the years went by people began to love it and it got loads of fans.

In other news here's some promo artwork for the ride.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I quite like that. <3

And I guess Hex, and this (and Thirteen should have been this way) are the kind of rides that require word of mouth to spread. They are a staple ride. An "added experience". You go to Alton expecting to ride the big coasters, maybe a log flume, a ghost train... And then you get bonuses that intrigue you, like Hex, and this.

Excited about it, I really am.

 

[nadroJ]

The top half looks like a B-Movie poster, perfect for something Nemesis themed!