Manufacturer History and Connections

[Hobbes]

So I'm sure that the vast majority of the info I'm looking for in this topic has been posted somewhere or another, but I just want to get a couple things cleared up in my mind, and all the info in one place.

1. I've heard/read in various places that B&M were originally employees of Giovanola, but I've also heard that they worked for Intamin. Which one of these is true, or do they have connections to both manufacturers?

2.I know that Alan Schilke, who designed RMC's coasters, worked with Arrow as well on the design of X. Arrow is now of course owned by S&S. Are other Arrow designers with RMC as well, or did Schilke just leave Arrow and end up at RMC alone?

3. I know that Gravity Group was formed from the remnants of CCI. I believe I also read that CCI was connected to the Dinn Corporation. Anyone have any information on that?

4. I've always assumed there was some connection between Morgan and Chance, and RCDB lists three companies by thoses names (Morgan, Chance Rides, and Chance Morgan) although Chance Morgan has no coasters listed. Anyone know what (if any) connection these companies have?

Obviously anyone else with questions is welcome to post them, and thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[joshuadrooney]

Post edited at 12:09 on 12/07/2014 to remove answer to question 1.

 

[CanobieFan]

4.. Chance / Chance Rides joined with Morgan a few years back. Morgan had made wood trains (awful) for years as well as a handful of Hyper Coasters and a mine train. Chance used to be a pretty big 'game changer' in the flat ride biz... Making things like the infamous ZIPPER as well as Chaos, Inverted, Yo-Yo, flying bobs.... Under Chance Morgan they've not done much outside of Lightning Run (but they still are making flat rides and some giant Ferris Wheels)

3 - CCI/GCI/GG/DINN/S&S <3

Dinn's daughter, Denise started the company with Mike Boodley who later broke off to make Great Coasters/GCI on his own. GG came after the downfall of CCI due to their underselling of rides to the lowest bidder and an AWFUL agreement where they would no longer work with PTC and ONLY provide G-Trains for their coasters unless the park went out of their way to buy PTC trains on their own (IE: BOULDERDASH) Dinn later worked with S&S for the tiny wood coaster department that turned off a couple of kickass woodies and then pretty much fell off the planet I guess.

 

[BBH]

^Both Denise Dinn Larrick and Alan Schilke worked for the wood coaster division at S&S before it was dissolved, and while at S&S Schilke also designed (as revealed by Jerry's interview with him) some of S&S's pneumatic launch coasters and portions of the standard El Loco. Schilke moved on to RMC in the mid-to-late 2000s to help Grubb kick start the whole IBox/topper track idea. If I'm not mistaken I believe he had significant input on the designs of those track systems and was credited on the patent for both of them. Of course, he now designs coasters for RMC using those track systems that he developed.

 

[therick311]

Chance also has a lot of history in making carousels and trains.

 

[GuyWithAStick]

Long time viewer, first time poster.

B&M did work for both Giovanola and Intamin. One of their last project with Intamin was Z Force at SFGAm, which was relocated from the ride rotation program. The site was later inhabited by Iron Wolf(now apocalypse at SFA), B&M's first coaster. Also note how Goliath(SFMM)/Titan, Giovanola made, is strikingly similar to Raging Bull, B&M made.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Hyde]

3 - CCI/GCI/GG/DINN/S&S <3

Dinn's daughter, Denise started the company with Mike Boodley who later broke off to make Great Coasters/GCI on his own. GG came after the downfall of CCI due to their underselling of rides to the lowest bidder and an AWFUL agreement where they would no longer work with PTC and ONLY provide G-Trains for their coasters unless the park went out of their way to buy PTC trains on their own (IE: BOULDERDASH) Dinn later worked with S&S for the tiny wood coaster department that turned off a couple of kickass woodies and then pretty much fell off the planet I guess.

To provide even further background, Charles Dinn, the namesake of Dinn Corporation, was the Director of Construction, Maintenance and Engineering at Kings Island in the early 80s, and lead the design and building of Beast. Pretty sure Al Collins and Curtis Summers worked under Dinn, as well as some other notable designers. Dinn used the success of Beast to found Dinn Corp. in 1983, and left Kings Island in 1984. Dinn Corp. worked very closely with Curtis Summers' firm during its existence from 1984 to 1991. A dispute in 1991 over Pegasus at Efteling caused Charles Dinn to close the firm, which led to Denise Dinn Larrick creating CCI with many of the folks from Dinn Corp.

Though CCI filed for bankruptcy in 2002, the true nail in the coffin was Denise Dinn Larick's filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which resulted in a liquidation of all of CCI's assets. Folks didn't bother with reorganizing the company, but rather spawned into GCI and GG, while Denise moved on to S&S.

 

[BBH]

^And to this day I fail to understand how a company that made 34 coasters in 20 years went bankrupt.

 

[rtotheizzo17]

^That could be a Q&A on its own but I would guess it could be something like:

Undersold value of rides (didn't charge enough for work)
Mismanagement of funds
Loss of income due to litigation (did they get sued for anything)
Combo of all 3, or other factors.

 

[Hyde]

^^ CCI was actually 34 coasters in 10 years - a remarkable pace that Dinn Corp., GCI, nor GG have been able to touch.

It was my understanding that CCI did undervalue their projects. However, Mean Streak cost $7.5 million in 1992 dollars (~$12 million when adjusted for inflation), which was twice as long as Outlaw Run that was built for $10 million. That's a lot of rail for a little money.

Everyone is welcome to their hypothesis, but the 1990s were dominated by the steel coaster (the withering of Arrow and emergence of B&M/Intamin), which would have absolutely put pressure on CCI to produce wooden coasters in a competitive market. There may have also been some heavy overhead that did not allow CCI to keep costs down, which led to its ultimate demise. Speculation, but factors that have spelt doom for similar firms that see huge growth in projects but ultimately wind up in the red.

In comparison, both GCI and GG are small two-man-style shops, occupying only a two room office with minimal staff. Considering both firms generate around one coaster a year (though GG recently struck a three coaster deal with Fantawild Adventure in China), it's understandable to play revenues close to the chest.

 

[BBH]

^Gravity Group also have the financial advantage of not manufacturing their designs anymore. All of that is done by Martin & Vleminckx or Gravitykraft. (The latter of which is a sister company, yes, but they practically operate as two separate units.)