Mack Dives into the Dive Coaster club

[GuyWithAStick]

https://www.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/4rwsnp/mack_big_dipper_dive_coaster/

So it's pretty much Lost Gravity's coaster model, but not it includes Dive Drops. Honestly, I'm thinking this will go to SDC, as they've been rumored for either a Dive Machine or a Mack Spinner(both featured in a survey), so this is a perfect mix.

Thoughts?

 

[DelPiero]

Mack are light years behind the curve if they go down the B&M Dive Coaster route. Valravn was hardly greeted with whoops of joy at any point during construction.
That said, it probably wouldn't be cookie cutter and Mack have come out with some weird and wonderful installations recently, plus their airtime is fab <3, so lets see what they can do.

 

[Ian]

Are dive coasters really a thing nowadays? Their original purpose was "face first vertical drop" scariness with a feature or two. Then America started building them and they turned into a coaster that just so happens to have a vertical drop. Then along came the Eurofighter boom with their beyond vertical, even scarier than a vertical drop, drop. Then S&S developed the El Loco with its even steeper, beyond vertical drop and the race to be the park with the regions/country/continent/world's steepest drop began. Yawn. I think the point of a Dive Coaster has been lost and aren't really a type any more. For all the stick we give Merlin, at least they understand the original purpose of a Dive coaster- the drop itself - and have made it the feature of both Krake and Oblivion: TBH. The rest of them are just normal coasters that happen to have a vertical drop.

 

[Chris Brown]

Completely agree Ian. Just shows moronic park owners still want dated designs hence why Mack think there is enough of a market to expand their portfolio.

The rendering also looks minging.

I guess the only saving grace is what DelPiero stated with them having more elements and less of a cookie cutter approach than B&M. Cant we just go full RCT2 and have B&M hypers with vertical drops?

 

[roomraider]

I sort of agree with Ian but at the same time why not include vertical drops on what is essentially just a looping coaster. To me this seems like an evolution of the looping coaster rather than the diving coaster.

Anyway as far as SDC goes. I believe this exact layout was proposed for a different park last year. If SDC do go for this model of ride i would expect it to be a different one.

 

[SimonSays99]

Well if they can make a business: Why not? And with their single car looping coaster they still have the tech - and the vertical or beyond vertical drop is just an option.

IMO B&M has to look out because Mack and Gerstlauer are diving down with lapbars which is always far more pleasant than using OTSRs - and Gerstlauer can even launch them. As Mack also has launch techology I hope to see a launched single car looper from them soon. The only argument for B&M divers today is capacity.

 

[Gazza]

I think the other gimmick around dive machines (Though perhaps less so with the ones at Garda and Heide) is that they are just so big, and daresay lumbering, which makes them impressive, and look different enough to other rides at the park....the wide trains, the fun of riding alongside 7 others.
I think in the past I've described dive machines as a "caricature" of a normal roller coaster.

This is why parks will still put in dive machines.

Short car coasters like Eurofighters, El Locos lose and gain energy quite quickly, so the pace and overall feel just isnt the same (That's not a criticism BTW)

 

[Paws]

The rendering is a bit odd but im interested to see how this turns out as it looks like their take on a B&M diver and an S&S El Loco, especially with the outwards banked turn.

 

[BigBad]

Valravn was hardly greeted with whoops of joy at any point during construction.

Its meh reception was by us snobs who wanted a launched Iron Horse Mean Streak instead! All I'm hearing is that Valravn is a popular ride.

The advantage of a B&M dive coaster over a Eurofighter or El Loco is that the cars are (usually) wide and allow 8-10 people what must be a terrifying view during the hold moment. That also increases capacity over a Eurofighter or El Loco, those the former two have narrow cars that can have quicker roll transitions.

I can't tell if the Mack has wide cars, but I think it would be a mistake not to. If they're 4-across, then this is just their version of the Eurofighter but without a beyond-vertical drop.

I do think, as Ian remarked, that dive coasters have gotten away from their purpose. If I want to ride inversions on a B&M, I'll ride Raptor. The dive coaster should take advantage of the wide trains to give riders views of several steep drops.

 

[Hutch]

I never really liked the idea of dive machines only focusing on that first drop. It needs to do more than that to keep me interested. Oblivion is just too short, and the drop isn't even as great as some make it out to be. It's like if a mega coaster entered the brake run right after its first drop. It's too gimmicky and that can't keep me interested for long.

The bigger ones imo are better because they actually have some good elements after the drop. And even on those ones the drop is still the main selling point.

 

[Lofty]

Oblivion is still one of the better dive machines to be fair. It doesn't **** about what it is - it's primary aim is to dive and it's still one of the most popular rides at the park. As much as I like Sheikra, it just seems so drawn out and you still come off thinking "That first drop was terrifying". The whole point of a dive machine is its diving gimmick.

 

[SimonSays99]

I mostly like Divers with tunnels as they greatly add to the effect like Oblivion but mostly Baron 1898 - Efteling also added dry ice and water mist which makes a nice refreshment in the summer.

 

[Pink Cadillac]

Yeah it's all about the drop (which is less 'special' these days and a bit outdated. If it isn't making a massive feature out of the drop then the concept quickly becomes pretty ineffective. The elements post-drop on Baron 1898 are unremarkable, but better than nothing - It was like a nice wind-down to the brakes after the drop. I think Mack are better off going down more of an El Loco route with sharp/unconventional directional changes.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Are dive coasters really a thing nowadays? Their original purpose was "face first vertical drop" scariness with a feature or two. Then America started building them and they turned into a coaster that just so happens to have a vertical drop. Then along came the Eurofighter boom with their beyond vertical, even scarier than a vertical drop, drop. Then S&S developed the El Loco with its even steeper, beyond vertical drop and the race to be the park with the regions/country/continent/world's steepest drop began. Yawn. I think the point of a Dive Coaster has been lost and aren't really a type any more. For all the stick we give Merlin, at least they understand the original purpose of a Dive coaster- the drop itself - and have made it the feature of both Krake and Oblivion: TBH. The rest of them are just normal coasters that happen to have a vertical drop.

I think this is just a reflection of a trend seen in the last decade or so: less focus on gimmicks, more so on features. Few coasters do one single thing nowadays, they usually bake their most prominent feature into a greater layout. A 90 degree drop could still be the focal point of a coaster, but it's not the only thing the coaster does any more. It also has an actual layout afterwards.

Mack appears to be doing a fine job with their rides nowadays, so I think a ride like this will be well-received if built anywhere.

 

[Sandman]

I've heard good things regarding the Mack Big Dipper concept i.e Lost Gravity at Walibi. So I feel like this is just an extension of that concept in some ways, different trains but with similar track design and layout. Could be good, although I wouldn't see it as direct competition for B&M Dive Machines. Different beasts really.

 

[tomahawk]

I think enthusiasts bitch and moan about everything that isn't meant to be the very best and just fun, because why would anyone build something with an easy marketing gimmick that people will wait hours for.

Oh wait...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Sandman]

Mack do have their fingers in all the pies at the moment. I just hope some of these concepts make their way to the UK. Maybe Amanda T will get into bed with them after project 2018 :wink:

 

[andrus]

Are dive coasters really a thing nowadays? Their original purpose was "face first vertical drop" scariness with a feature or two. Then America started building them and they turned into a coaster that just so happens to have a vertical drop. Then along came the Eurofighter boom with their beyond vertical, even scarier than a vertical drop, drop. Then S&S developed the El Loco with its even steeper, beyond vertical drop and the race to be the park with the regions/country/continent/world's steepest drop began. Yawn. I think the point of a Dive Coaster has been lost and aren't really a type any more. For all the stick we give Merlin, at least they understand the original purpose of a Dive coaster- the drop itself - and have made it the feature of both Krake and Oblivion: TBH. The rest of them are just normal coasters that happen to have a vertical drop.

I think this is just a reflection of a trend seen in the last decade or so: less focus on gimmicks, more so on features. Few coasters do one single thing nowadays, they usually bake their most prominent feature into a greater layout. A 90 degree drop could still be the focal point of a coaster, but it's not the only thing the coaster does any more. It also has an actual layout afterwards.

Mack appears to be doing a fine job with their rides nowadays, so I think a ride like this will be well-received if built anywhere.

This is how I see it too; this design should not be looked upon as a pure dive coaster, but rather a looping coaster with a vertical first drop.

I think it's a nice evolution of coasters that the manufacturers and parks finally are looking into the entirety of the experience! And not just focusing on gimmicks, but rather put in a well balanced mix of elements that make for a great ride. Anyways: I was always one of those who thought dive machines were too short, and needed something more after the drop.. So I can't really complain now that we see more of those type of coasters popping up! :lol: