Liseberg | Valkyria | B&M Dive Coaster
- Thread starter roomraider
- Start date
SilverArrow
Certified Ride Geek
Not going to lie I am most excited about the colour rather than anything else!Ian said:
Never been to Liseberg though.
TommyAlex
Mega Poster
Although I've never ridden it myself, I do feel it would be a shame if Kanonen didn't live on in another park - it looks like a decent ride for the small space.
Although I do understand it - despite having completely different layouts, to the average park visitor I guess Kanonen could be seen as too similar to Helix - both launched coasters with inversions.
Although I do understand it - despite having completely different layouts, to the average park visitor I guess Kanonen could be seen as too similar to Helix - both launched coasters with inversions.
Tomatron
Giga Poster
Kanonen must have some residual value. It's small and compact, its type is still in production and it wouldn't cost a fortune to run or maintain. As good as Liseberg are at getting rid of their dead weight and we all love them for their great constant investment, they'd only do it if they thought it would be financially viable.
Valkryia does look like being a great ride and a really great choice for Liseberg, and hopefully it'll just have the OTSRs like the other recent European Dive Machines.
Valkryia does look like being a great ride and a really great choice for Liseberg, and hopefully it'll just have the OTSRs like the other recent European Dive Machines.
TheCoasterCruiser
Giga Poster
Regarding Kanonen I'm pretty sure it will find a new home (Spinrock already has), but it is quite remarkable, has such a "new" coaster ever been sold off again that quickly for the same reason?
GuyWithAStick
Captain Basic
^Stealth at CGA lasted like 3 or 4 seasons before being removed for waterpark expansion.
I hope Kanonen does find a home. It looked like such a nice little launched coaster!
Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk
I hope Kanonen does find a home. It looked like such a nice little launched coaster!
Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk
CoasterCrazy
Giga Poster
Great to see Liseberg going from strength to strength here!
I'm not a particularly big fan of the larger (8 per row) dive machines, having ridden Sheikra and Blivvie, as they're a bit lumbering after the first drop and are paced poorly.
However, the layouts of the newer dive machines seem a bit more exciting, plus having a tunnel after the main drop is crucial to a successful DM, in regards to both forces and visuals. So, although an invert may have fitted better into Liseberg's line-up, this is also a fantastic addition!
If this is good, really good, then we might well be looking at all four major Liseberg coasters being 10/10s! Also, it's fantastic to see a park investing in a very solid flat ride line-up!
Also, how intense and rough is Kanonen? I'm thinking that, perhaps with new trains, it could be a perfect dark ride at its next home?
I'm not a particularly big fan of the larger (8 per row) dive machines, having ridden Sheikra and Blivvie, as they're a bit lumbering after the first drop and are paced poorly.
However, the layouts of the newer dive machines seem a bit more exciting, plus having a tunnel after the main drop is crucial to a successful DM, in regards to both forces and visuals. So, although an invert may have fitted better into Liseberg's line-up, this is also a fantastic addition!
If this is good, really good, then we might well be looking at all four major Liseberg coasters being 10/10s! Also, it's fantastic to see a park investing in a very solid flat ride line-up!
Also, how intense and rough is Kanonen? I'm thinking that, perhaps with new trains, it could be a perfect dark ride at its next home?
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
It's not that intense or that rough really. It's just a bit...meh.
Talking of flats, don't forget they already have Upswingit, a lower intensity flat but perfectly placed over the edge of a huge drop on the hill. That's a park that really knows how to work with what they've got.
Talking of flats, don't forget they already have Upswingit, a lower intensity flat but perfectly placed over the edge of a huge drop on the hill. That's a park that really knows how to work with what they've got.
Slayed
Hyper Poster
^I'm never riding Upswinget again, as an acrophobe it scared the crap out of me!
Do we know for definite that the Kanonen space is being used for the Dive-r, rather than Loke? It's not much of a footprint.
Not sad to see Kanonen get cannoned - easily the worst launch coaster I've ever ridden.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Do we know for definite that the Kanonen space is being used for the Dive-r, rather than Loke? It's not much of a footprint.
Not sad to see Kanonen get cannoned - easily the worst launch coaster I've ever ridden.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
owentaylor121
Giga Poster
Loke is going where Upswing is by the sounds of things and Kanonen is still going to be open next season so it can't be going there.Slayed said:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TheCoasterCruiser
Giga Poster
^ Yes, and Valkryia will take up part of the old Kanonen site as well as probably a bit of the property behind it.
owentaylor121
Giga Poster
I meant Spinrock. My bad.Tomatron said:Uppswinget isn't going anywhere.
Pink Panther said:"Loke" will swing riders 135ft and will be located near Balder
Loke is going pretty much where Spinrock currently sits.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I feel like I need to come in here and groan and walk back out again?
Eh, anyone who witnessed me slander CP's dive machine last year will be able to guess exactly what I think of this.
But, what I will add is...
A lot of people argue that the idea of dive machines being outdated is regional specific. That they are only outdated at parks in which they exist. That's daft. The problem with the dive machine is that it is a gimmick machine and the gimmick at its disposal isn't a big deal anymore, anywhere.
Unless accompanied by a very intense thematic - not necessarily a story, but conceptual focus - on that drop, the drop isn't anything special. That's why Oblivion is so good, thats why Krake still kind of works. And without that special attention, without that focus on the drop, they literally don't do anything else. They have a huge sweeping immelman at their disposal, which are so floaty and uninteresting, at complete odds with the power and drama of the drop... So you end up, as is the case with Krake, with a good element (the drop) weakened by a crap one (...the rest of it). Griffon is the worst offender I've ridden. It's drop lacks any power what so ever. It isn't intense, it's just a floaty, baby-blue fart. And once it's done the drop immel combo, it does it again, this time smaller of course. No where has updated the experience since Sheikra - if anything, they just got worse. Sheikra is marginally better than Griffon because it has weird forces on the inversion B&M managed to remove with Griffon. B&M - always seeking the perfect, forceless experience.
I can't stay mad at Liseberg because here's a park with the BALLS to remove a major ride that isn't even that old. Ya know, even if Kanonen was well loved, that deserves appraisal. What other park takes such a risk, in spending money removing and replacing a major coaster? It shows how much money Liseberg must be making and how much they care about constantly improving the park.
Do I think a dive machine is completely the wrong choice? Yes, but a lot of it probably has to do with wanting some intimidating looking thing that doesn't take up that much room... And that's exactly what a dive machine is.
So, better than CP getting one, but it's still a dive machine, and thus still almost certainly going to be mediocre.
Eh, anyone who witnessed me slander CP's dive machine last year will be able to guess exactly what I think of this.
But, what I will add is...
A lot of people argue that the idea of dive machines being outdated is regional specific. That they are only outdated at parks in which they exist. That's daft. The problem with the dive machine is that it is a gimmick machine and the gimmick at its disposal isn't a big deal anymore, anywhere.
Unless accompanied by a very intense thematic - not necessarily a story, but conceptual focus - on that drop, the drop isn't anything special. That's why Oblivion is so good, thats why Krake still kind of works. And without that special attention, without that focus on the drop, they literally don't do anything else. They have a huge sweeping immelman at their disposal, which are so floaty and uninteresting, at complete odds with the power and drama of the drop... So you end up, as is the case with Krake, with a good element (the drop) weakened by a crap one (...the rest of it). Griffon is the worst offender I've ridden. It's drop lacks any power what so ever. It isn't intense, it's just a floaty, baby-blue fart. And once it's done the drop immel combo, it does it again, this time smaller of course. No where has updated the experience since Sheikra - if anything, they just got worse. Sheikra is marginally better than Griffon because it has weird forces on the inversion B&M managed to remove with Griffon. B&M - always seeking the perfect, forceless experience.
I can't stay mad at Liseberg because here's a park with the BALLS to remove a major ride that isn't even that old. Ya know, even if Kanonen was well loved, that deserves appraisal. What other park takes such a risk, in spending money removing and replacing a major coaster? It shows how much money Liseberg must be making and how much they care about constantly improving the park.
Do I think a dive machine is completely the wrong choice? Yes, but a lot of it probably has to do with wanting some intimidating looking thing that doesn't take up that much room... And that's exactly what a dive machine is.
So, better than CP getting one, but it's still a dive machine, and thus still almost certainly going to be mediocre.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
You make a good point... And no, no Oblivion 2 for me yet.
I remain pessimistic but I'll be the first to say "**** me I was wrong" if it is good.
I remain pessimistic but I'll be the first to say "**** me I was wrong" if it is good.
Lofty
CF Legend
Yeah, Oblivion TBH is a much more enjoyable experience than the larger DM's in my opinion.
This is without doubt the correct decision for the park in terms of investments. Will it gain national press? Yes. Will it draw more people to the park? Yes. Will it be a great ride experience? Yes. Does it offer a guest experience that's completely different than anything else in the whole park? Without a doubt.
Yeah. They know what they're doing.
This is without doubt the correct decision for the park in terms of investments. Will it gain national press? Yes. Will it draw more people to the park? Yes. Will it be a great ride experience? Yes. Does it offer a guest experience that's completely different than anything else in the whole park? Without a doubt.
Yeah. They know what they're doing.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
I thought Oblivion TBH was pretty average. Drop, immelmann, poor airtime hill restricted by OTSR's, bland helix and an average zero g, done. Shiekra is the superior ride by far. Not enough elements in these things IMO and vertical drops are a bit redundant now. Agree with Lofty that it'll be a success and is a good addition for the park but in the grand scheme of things its a bit 'meh' when compared to other 2018 creds.