Lightning Rod Status

[Dar]

I don't know how many times this needs to be said: The brake fins after the LSMs are NOT USED in normal operations. They are PURELY there for emergency stop/abort launch reasons.

Really? That's interesting! I assumed from the slow down that it was being trimmed!

If you line up the big drops, the old one still gains a fair bit on the new one so it's going to be cool seeing how much faster it can run in the summer!

 

[cocoa]

I'm happy that the ibox track is working nicely and stuff, but I just can't stomach the loss of the trees. For me, environment takes a ride from being good and fun into something special and magical. Especially for fast, terrain coasters, trees are intangibly important. I suppose in thirty years they'll be back... but that's a long time for a coaster. Imagine if boulder dash was just on a dirt slope?

 

[JJLehto]

Or Beast! The loss of trees is unfortunate. Deff takes a slight bit away from the experience. I hope they'd just bring in new trees and not wait for em to grow, for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[jay37415]

I suppose in thirty years they'll be back... but that's a long time for a coaster. Imagine if boulder dash was just on a dirt slope?

Personally, I don't think we're looking at 30 years to get the trees back. As long as they don't have to go back in and do more work, it should be about 4 to 5 years to grow back in. There were a lot of trees removed during the original construction and they grew back quickly. I clipped this drone video of construction for reference to what CoasterStuidos posted with the drone.

 

[Hyde]

And like ECG said, don't worry about the speed. Y'all should know by now how temperamental RMCs are, especially this one. A cold, empty, early morning POV will be WILDLY different from a hot, fully loaded train in July. Give it time.

Let's also not discount: it's off-season - this is what we do for entertainment!

So doing a side-by-side timestamp comparison is interesting to say the least!

First, watch these videos in series; write down the one you think feels quickest:

Alright, videos aside, here's the rundown of how each element/series of elements clocks by the stop watch:

2019 Recording (1st Video)
Element​	Start Time​	End Time​	Section Timing​
Launch Lift​	0:21	0:28	0:07
Top Lift, Bottom Drop​	0:28	0:36	0:08
Bottom Drop, Wave Turns, Top of Quad Down​	0:36	0:57	0:21
Quad Down, Bottom Zero Invert Loop​	0:57	1:05	0:08
Zero Invert Loop, Brakes​	1:05	1:10	0:05

2019 Recording (2nd Video)
Element​	Start Time​	End Time​	Total Time​
Launch Lift​	0:22	0:29	0:07
Top Lift, Bottom Drop​	0:29	0:37	0:08
Bottom Drop, Wave Turns, Top of Quad Down​	0:37	0:58	0:21
Quad Down, Bottom Zero Invert Loop​	0:58	1:06	0:08
Zero Invert Loop, Brakes​	1:06	1:11	0:05

2021 Recording (3rd Video)​
Element​	Start Time​	End Time​	Total Time​	Time Difference From First 2 Videos​
Launch Lift​	0:25	0:33	0:08	0:01
Top Lift, Bottom Drop​	0:33	0:43	0:10	0:02
Bottom Drop, Wave Turns, Top of Quad Down​	0:43	1:06	0:23	0:02
Quad Down, Bottom Zero Invert Loop​	1:06	1:15	0:09	0:01
Zero Invert Loop, Brakes​	1:15	1:19	0:04	-0:01

Yes, I may have snuck a bit of a placebo in there if you felt the 1st or 2nd video were different time durations - they are dead on with each other. And despite the cold weather and empty train run; the new track only puts it 1-2 seconds behind pace - and it somehow gets faster at the end?

RMC have proven to be temperamental in the cold (see Steel Vengeance during Halloween season) - consider this good tidings for hotter weather operation.

 

[JJLehto]

Now that is damn thorough work! You're a true hero Hyde. Also that's why this forum is great. Less of the pouncing more understanding and stats. Who else would actually break down the times!
Guess this is the ultimate: POVs are not great to judge. I mean I would swear that 3rd looks significantly slower. Like to the point where 1st watch I said :O whoa that looks slow. Clearly it is slower but only 1-2 seconds....wild. And yeah surely a warm day full train that difference will be negligible. And yeah maybe the lack of trees plays a role. The perspectives also look a tad different between 2019 and 2021 that plays in. I suppose I got freaked when I saw the speed over that first hill I mean, that thing did barely crawl.... I hope it speeds up to 2019 bc that does look way weaker but long as the overall ride is unchanged, which it should be, whatever.

EDIT: Oh and true. It's offseason and I did a grand total of 1 park last year....cmon I dont got anything else to talk about right now XD

 

[Dar]

That's pretty amazing! I went into the new video with an open mind and still thought it looked slow, but boy was I wrong!

 

[JJLehto]

That's pretty amazing! I went into the new video with an open mind and still thought it looked slow, but boy was I wrong!

Someone mentioned the lack of trees. Perhaps that is a factor, and maybe I'm wrong it does seem to be a different camera position? Like slightly farther out? That can play a role. Ya I can't believe the 3rd is only 1-2 secs slower. But numbers don't lie. My faith has been restored lol I do reckon it'll be little to no difference when warmed up. If anything faster over the end???

I hope by Mid to late May it will be warmed enough!!

 

[Hutch]

Stumbled across a silly little three way comparison of the three POVs (first one was Dollywood's POV from 2016, then CF's for 2019 and 21).

Obviously we should be taking the new POV with a grain of salt. That being said, I thought the new POV looked pretty similar to other POVs. And honestly even if it's slower by a second or two (again, we'll need to see how it really runs later this summer), that won't be a big deal.

 

[JJLehto]

Yeah after initial pang of worry I no longer feel it I trust the numbers not the eyes, esp since we all see things differently. Many have said they see little difference, to me its like WOW night and day, but that's just how I see it. It's not as slow as it seemed to me and with temp and weight that should disappear. Esp with ECG's El Toro comment. I really think it may be part the perspective, all 3 are from slightly different positions and that can have impact. Also the 1st view seems "shakier" the 2nd less so, 3rd smoothest. THAT may be what threw me. Shakier looks/feels faster to me.

 

[jay37415]

Someone needs to buy Hyde a beverage for going so Coaster Need on us.

 

[CrashCoaster]

I think know why the coaster travels slower over the first couple of hills. The 2019 video clearly shows that the launch speed has not changed at all in 2021, yet it goes slower all of the top. I believe that's entirely down to the empty train. An empty train will have significantly more drag than a full train, due to there being less momentum (which I know has been mentioned for the ride as a whole, but it has a big affect on the first hills). Air resistance and friction will have a greater effect on the train due to the lower mass, therefore it slows down quicker over the crest, despite the launch not changing. Since P=mv (Momentum = Mass X Velocity), if the mass is lower and the velocity remains the same, momentum will decrease.

EDIT:- @MLDesigns I've added your statement about LRod's launch fins to my signature. It annoys the hell out of me too that people still think that the coaster trims after the launch. I mean, from off-ride you can literally see those fins raise AFTER the train passes them to prevent a fast rollback.

 

[Hyde]

EDIT:- @MLDesigns I've added your statement about LRod's launch fins to my signature. It annoys the hell out of me too that people still think that the coaster trims after the launch. I mean, from off-ride you can literally see those fins raise AFTER the train passes them to prevent a fast rollback.

I guess @Hixee and I have to do that LSM/LIM Table of Elements video after all.

Friendly reminder LSMs are also brakes when not electrified, and have a natural attraction with the train's fin stack that controls an emergency train rollback's speed; this is why an LSM rollback is pretty slow, with brake fin or LSM at the bottom of the launch to "catch" the train for a final stop (usually parking on top of a set of drive wheels).

LSMs are far more precise than LIM and hydraulic launches of yore; while older launch methods operated with a very simple "On/Off" approach, and you just hope the train reaches the target speed at the end of the launch, LSMs actively track and calculate a train's speed as it travels through the launch, greatly minimizing ability to over/under shoot - and the doubling as a brake array means you needn't install separate brake fins for emergency stop, as required with Intamin Accelerators or Premier Spaghetti Bowls LIM Launchers.

 

[Christian]

The question is. How will we classify Lightning Rod now? Wood or hybrid? Or hybrid hybrid? Hmmm

 

[Hutch]

The question is. How will we classify Lightning Rod now? Wood or hybrid? Or hybrid hybrid? Hmmm

I'll be referring to it as purely a hybrid coaster now.

You look other hybrid coasters like Steel Vengeance and Voyage, but we still classify those based on track material (so steel hybrid or wooden hybrid). But now that Lightning Rod uses both styles of track, hybrid seems like the best option.

I suppose you could still make arguments of whether it'd be a steel or woodie, but the hybrid classification is just the easier answer to that question.

 

[Trax]

It has always been a hybdrid, so we might call it a hybrid-hybrid now, but I think hybrid is still applicable. Maybe steel-hybrid, but yeah, hybrid is easier.

Before you ask: It uses a Hybrid track and steel ledgers, which made it a clear hybrid. I don't know why ppl called it a wooden coaster in the first place, maybe good marketing by RMC?

Steel Vengeance for example uses a pure steel track and is therefore a steel coaster. (If you call SteVe a hybrid, than funfair rides are also hybrids, as they usually rest on wood as well). Before the whole RMC thing, people did not care about the support material, because the track is responsible for the feel of the ride. But due to good RMC and park marketing, everyone calls every second coaster a hybrid nowadays. Minetrain? Hybrid. Gemini? Hybrid? Voyage? Hybrid.

 

[Hyde]

"Consider the Ship of Theseus..."

Lightning Rod is indeed in a weird gray area as half steel/half wood, but always had large steel design in the track build (as every RMC Topper Track does), making it a different ride experience than a traditional woodie.

Here's a great comparison chart from Coaster101, which highlights how little wood there always was in the RMC Topper Track:

​

Topper Track being considered "wooden" has always been a technicality, given the huge slab-o-steel the track has the train run on, with laminated wood serving as structural support. They are, by design, steel coasters in wooden coasters' clothing.

On my end, I have never considered/worried about separate steel/wooden coaster counts - just merge them together you silly goose - and if forced to classify Lightning Rod as the binary choice; majority of it is steel, so that's it's categorization.

 

[Hixee]

It was going well, but...

Before the whole RMC thing, people did not care about the support material, because the track is responsible for the feel of the ride. But due to good RMC and park marketing, everyone calls every second coaster a hybrid nowadays. Minetrain? Hybrid. Gemini? Hybrid? Voyage? Hybrid.

You've lost me there.

All the time I've been doing this (hint: for plenty long enough) Voyage has been considered a hybrid. Same with Gemini.

I've always been of the opinion that you should needlessly classify them. Crudely, I go off the logic of what is bearing the load of the running wheels and what is holding up the structure. If they're different, it's a hybrid. For example: Wooden (Troy), Steel (Nemesis), Steel-Hybrid (Steel Vengeance), Wood-Hybrid (Voyage) - although I would concede to combining the last two to be just "hybrid".

For what it's worth, I used to consider Lightning Rod a woodie, but now it's a steel-hybrid. I'll probably just stick with hybrid though - I don't actually separate the two in my lists.

Also, like @Hyde I don't rank them differently. I keep track to record my "100th woodie", but in the rankings everything is fair game.

 

[Trax]

Those pictures are good, and show why I never considered the Topper track to be a wooden one. It combines a wooden base and a steel top, making it a hybrid track. Neither the steel nor the wood alone are thick enough to hold on their own, but the combination is tough enough to support the train. And even more, due to the steel increasing the strenght compared to the wood, it can support even more than just wood.
It is, per definition of the word a hybrid track.

I understand the difference some ppl make between Steel and Wood-hybrid. But for what it's worth, a funfair coaster also rests on wood, and no one would consider those hybrids. Also, most traditional wooden coasters have some steel supports incorporated in their layout, and often times steel supports on the transfer track. How much steel is fine, and at what percentage of steel supports it switches to being a hybrid?
Is Zadra with its steel supports for the lift and the stall wooden enough to be a hybrid?

That's why I focus on the track to classify the ride. Might be controversial, but it is way easier to differentiate between different styles of coasters. I get @Hixee point regarding the two sorts of hybrids - and he is kind of consequent in his definition.
But many people still consider the Voyage a wooden coaster. And if you take that into consideration, just look at this random mess:


Wooden track - wooden support = Wooden coaster
Wooden track - steel support = wooden coaster
Hybrid track - wooden support = wooden coaster
Hybrid track - steel supports = wooden coaster
Steel track - wooden support = Hybrid coaster

 

[Hutch]

I don't know why ppl called it a wooden coaster in the first place, maybe good marketing by RMC?

I mean, 99% of wooden coasters have steel strips mounted on the wooden track (only one I can think of otherwise is Flying Turns). So by your logic, we might as well call all wooden coasters hybrid coasters.

@Hyde beat me to it with a better explanation on the topper track. I always took it as the wooden track on RMCs bearing most of the forces, with the topper track just providing a smoother run (not unlike traditional woodies with their steel strip).