King's Island "Unknown Coaster" 2014

[Hyde]

I would love to see something low to the ground that takes advantage of those rolling hills, similar to Cheetah Hunt.

In the design of Diamondback, KI's planning and research department mentioned facing a tradeoff between height and length. It was considered to have Diamondback go even further back into the woods, but the cost of doing so was exorbitant given the height with which they were building.

If instead they went with something 100 ft. tall or less featuring a meandering layout - similar to what was done with Beast - there would be a lot of opportunity.

 

[_koppen]

Re: King's Island

They already have TWO launch coasters, both of which are sit-down, that are aimed at two separate groups. No need for a launched coaster of any variety.

Considering the launch is the new lift hill, this is a pretty stupid comment.

 

[bmac]

Re: King's Island

They already have TWO launch coasters, both of which are sit-down, that are aimed at two separate groups. No need for a launched coaster of any variety.

Considering the launch is the new lift hill, this is a pretty stupid comment.

 

[Intricks]

Re: King's Island "Unknown Coaster" 2014

They already have TWO launch coasters, both of which are sit-down, that are aimed at two separate groups. No need for a launched coaster of any variety.

Considering the launch is the new lift hill, this is a pretty stupid comment.

Well, not really. What else could a launching ride provide that isnt already found on Flight of Fear or Stunt Track? Outside of doing a launched invert that isnt an impulse, or a smaller variant of Top Thrill, there isnt anything to give if you were to add in another besides having it be outdoors with no indoor sections (as Stunt Tracks 'environment' can give it a terrain-escue feel).

So no, my comment wasnt really all that stupid as installing a launched coaster wont bring much else to the park.

 

[michaellll]

Eh, I personally wouldn't have any problem with a terrain launcher. Not just because I enjoy launched rides, but Flight of Fear and Stunt Track aren't really shinning examples of the type.

I'm sure Zierer could produce a cheap terrain launcher! Especially with their recent custom work with BGW. This is of course not a prediction of any sort. Just thinking out loud over here.

 

[bmac]

It's hardly custom when it's placed over a similar layout of an older coaster and uses most of it's old supports. The only thing that is custom about it is that event building and that's more credit to the people who made the special effects, not Zierer.

 

[Hyde]

^ It's a stretch to say Verbolten is not a custom coaster, but a similar layout of Big Bad Wolf. Considering the vertical freefall section, theme, launch sections, and frankly not similar layout. The only thing that is shared is a large drop and turn over the Rhine river.

I would instead say Verbolten is indeed a custom coaster.

However, don't hold your breath on a Zierer multi launch. Cedar Fair notoriously goes out of its way to not do themed rides, and would not look to do a ride similar to Verbolten or Thi3teen.

 

[bmac]

^ It's a stretch to say Verbolten is not a custom coaster, but a similar layout of Big Bad Wolf. Considering the vertical freefall section, theme, launch sections, and frankly not similar layout. The only thing that is shared is a large drop and turn over the Rhine river.

I would instead say Verbolten is indeed a custom coaster.

However, don't hold your breath on a Zierer multi launch. Cedar Fair notoriously goes out of its way to not do themed rides, and would not look to do a ride similar to Verbolten or Thi3teen.

Verbolten reuses predominantly the same layout that Big Bad Wolf did other than the event building, including the station, maintenance bay and quite a few of Big Bad Wolf's old footers (although heavily reinforced). I'd be willing to say it's a custom coaster only because of the event building, without that it would essentially be the rehash of BBW. Alas this is southern Ohio not Virginia Beach, so any replies PM me .

I wouldn't rule out Zierer just because of Verbolten, they've only built two major coasters in their history (Wicked the other) and one is heavily themed while the other is rather generic. Just because one coaster was built with high themeing doesn't mean that all of them will be (rumors highly suggest I'm wrong atm), and Zierer doesn't have to strap the drop track to everything they build.

So yeah I contradicted myself, still doesn't mean we should rule out a company because of one coaster. I really wonder if RollerMonkey's statement is 100% true, it certainly carries weight as far as the successes of their latest additions in CF parks (Maverick, i305). It would certainly be interesting who will step into Intamin's shoes with Cedar Fair's next additions (hey Mack, I hear you knockin').

 

[Hyde]

Intamin's failures go even further than Maverick and i305 - at Cedar Point TTD, Millennium Force, and Shoot the Rapids all had problems with their opening/failed to open on time. Perilous Plunge at Knott's is finally being removed after years of horrid operation. Admittedly majority of Intamin's installations have gone to Cedar Point; but even still it is far from a spotless track record.

Certainly a shame - Intamin makes the best roller coasters in the world. It would be sorry to see their relationship with Cedar Fair go further south.

 

[michaellll]

I certainly wasn't suggesting that Zierer would be the choice if it was a multi-launch terrain coaster. Simply saying that they'd be qualified now and it would be cheaper than other options I'd expect.

And Verbolten is certainly a custom coaster. No matter if it vaguely matches the route of BBW Zierer still had to design and manufacture the track and supports independent of BBW's infrastructure.

 

[IntaminToWin]

Intamin's failures go even further than Maverick and i305 - at Cedar Point TTD, Millennium Force, and Shoot the Rapids all had problems with their opening/failed to open on time. Perilous Plunge at Knott's is finally being removed after years of horrid operation. Admittedly majority of Intamin's installations have gone to Cedar Point; but even still it is far from a spotless track record.

Certainly a shame - Intamin makes the best roller coasters in the world. It would be sorry to see their relationship with Cedar Fair go further south.

Couldn't Millennium and TTD both be written off to the fact that at the time they were the most insane things out there? Millie had the first cable lift, so they probably had to work with that a lot. And Top Thrill goes 120.
Sort of hard to make rides go that fast.

Things like i305's wheel problems and Maverick's Barrel Roll are bad, though. That's simply them not testing the trains enough, which is sort of an important thing to do.

 

[NAPayne14]

As this goes for anyone who's seen behind SoB there is a crap ton of space, what I don't understand is why KI just didn't create a whole new area for Sob due to all the space? Also I can see a B&M going in its place 300 ft. + just like Levi only bout 2000 ft. Longer.

 

[Intricks]

Re: King's Island "Unknown Coaster" 2014

Mavericks Barrel Roll was fine, it was just causing far too much stress on the train themselves. Not sure how that couldn't have been found without lots of testing beforehand.

I agree that Intamin creates rides that push boundaries, but at the same time, they dont really seem to use a system with all the kinks worked out. More or less trial and error kind of thought*.


*I know that isnt true, but they seem to **** out something then refine it properly.

 

[furie]

The issue is that the tolerances on the train itself are hard to calculate out when designing the track.

The trains aren't made "as a whole" by Intamin. Wheel bearings will come from a professional wheel bearing supplier, couplings will come from a professional metal casting firm and wheels will come from "getyourwheelshere.com". Or whatever.

So while they may often go to the same manufacturer of the constituent parts - it doesn't mean you get exactly the same quality components per train. They will demand a degree of quality, but they can't test that out using computer modelling - it's all got to be when the final part is assembled.

Just because you use the same "finest" eggs and fresh milk doesn't mean you will get a perfectly risen soufflé every single time. Sometimes the oven may run a little hotter in summer, or the bowl may have a flaw, or the eggs are from a slightly bigger chicken. However, you will never know until everything is put together and it's brought out as the final, delicious dish.

The skill of course is in the cooking. A recipe is useless in the hands of a novice. So Intamin do their best to make sure that everything works as well as it possibly can do with the ingredients they have, but sometimes you're dealt a curve-ball and then it's about how you deal with that professionally.

 

[Hyde]

So it's a fundamental question of does Cedar Fair want to continue running a risk with Intamin. Intamin is undoubtedly the best roller coaster manufacturer in the world, but there is a definite tradeoff of superior coaster design vs. reliability.

I wouldn't blame Cedar Fair for looking to use another coaster manufacturer, especially since other coaster manufacturers are catching up in design. (B&M's 300 ft. coaster, Zierer multi launch, Mack multi launch, etc.)

 

[furie]

It depends on what they want.

B&M produce things that sit within their own fluffy little world. It's almost off-the-shelf production for them, even something like Leviathan didn't push them or their hardware.

So it's safe and predictable. Mack too aren't in the "big thrill" game. Their Megacoasters are superb rides, but they're family (just :lol: ). Zierer the same. Only Intamin and Gravity Group are pushing the boundaries of thrill - but it comes at a cost.

So yeah, it's really all down to who they see as a demographic and how they want to market the ride...

 

[sparky2u]

I recon the park will go for a "Wing'd Coaster" or maybe a large S&S multi launch type

 

[Hyde]

It depends on what they want.

B&M produce things that sit within their own fluffy little world. It's almost off-the-shelf production for them, even something like Leviathan didn't push them or their hardware.

So it's safe and predictable. Mack too aren't in the "big thrill" game. Their Megacoasters are superb rides, but they're family (just :lol: ). Zierer the same. Only Intamin and Gravity Group are pushing the boundaries of thrill - but it comes at a cost.

So yeah, it's really all down to who they see as a demographic and how they want to market the ride...

Well put furie.

Though Kings Island is due for a large steel coaster (if not in height, length), I would love to see a large GCI twister. GCI is already the clear go-to wooden manufacturer for Cedar Fair as they never push the envelope, and would have a hay day with the terrain. Beast-in-Law anyone?

 

[Intricks]

Re: King's Island "Unknown Coaster" 2014

Uh....what? GCI is like the B&M of wooden coasters, you know exactly what you will get from them. The only thing GCI ever needs to be brought in to do at KI is the entire retracking of Beast and giving it some Millennium Flyers.

 

[furie]

I think that was Hyde's point? GCI would work best because they DON'T push the envelope, which is why Hyde suggests they wont work with Intamin again?