Interest in an ask-an-op thread?

[Pink Cadillac]

I thought of a good question. Who decides how many trains/cars to run on a particular day and who decides when to add trains or take them off?

 

[Mack]

The managerial staff of the rides department will make that decision based on the anticipated amount of guests in the park (and of course if the trains are operable. If one is out of service for maintenance, then that car can't be used).
Where operators come into play is that, for example, on our Eurofighter, we can only run 2 trains/cars with 3 staff, but we can run 3 with ≥4 staff (operators/attendants).

When a train is added or removed, the operators generally exit the station to explain to the guests that there will be a delay. Maintenance is responsible for operating the transfer track. Once maintenance is satisfied with the addition/removal, the operators go back in and will run all trains on the track empty and then open the ride to guests again.

Due to the amount of time it takes to add or remove a train, usually we are more likely to run too many than too few. We never remove a car due to low attendance unless there is a mechanical problem or we seriously need to bleed staff. 99% of the time we will avoid adding/removing cars mid-day because it of the required temporary closure of the ride and long delay due to the need for maintenance to arrive and us to perform test cycles.

I hope this answers your question @Pink Cadillac

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

If the average op in charge of restraints were asked by a patron "Not so tight, please!" do you think the op would be influenced by the request at all?

 

[GuyWithAStick]

^ If someone says it's too tight, we usually just use the manual release to move it up one 'click'. Happens all the time.

Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

^ If someone says it's too tight, we usually just use the manual release to move it up one 'click'. Happens all the time.

Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk

I see people groan and react all the time and I can't say I've seen concern on the part of ride ops.

But I wasn't clear: my question was about someone pre-emptively asking, during the moment when the rider has their hands raised, for the ride op not to push down too tightly. Would that just be perceived as annoying, or would the op be likely to hear the preference and respect it?

 

[Mack]

Really depends on the ride-op. Typically the park trains operators to lightly push and pull to check restraints and clarifies that the goal is not to force the restraint down, merely to check that it is locked. If they don't understand the concept or had poor training they may react differently. If a guest says their restraint is too tight, I will usually open the restraints and let them pull it down again.

When I check restraints, I generally am trying to push-pull while leaving the restraint at the position the guest chose to pull it to. If I push it farther, I probably didn't mean to; the ratchet just clicked. If the guest pulls it loosely and it's safe, I'm going to push-pull and mostly leave it loose. If a guest asks for me to staple them, then I will.

"Not so tight" is not annoying. It's nice to know whether you want it tighter or not. Many general public members want their restraint as tight as it can go so they feel safer, so it's nice to know you prefer it looser. Generally, as long as you have your hands clear so I can push-pull, I'm happy with you. But again, this depends on ride-op. It's not annoying to make a comment like that, that is the least annoying thing you can do. People fighting about loose articles or sitting on handrails is much more irritating than a quick statement about your restraint preference. ^_^ You can also always use your legs strategically to make it so I can't push it down harder. But a quick "I like it like this" or "I like it loose" or "Not so tight" is fine.

Remember, we don't necessarily know how you want it, so telling us can defo help depending on who it is.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Really depends on the ride-op. Typically the park trains operators to lightly push and pull to check restraints and clarifies that the goal is not to force the restraint down, merely to check that it is locked. If they don't understand the concept or had poor training they may react differently. If a guest says their restraint is too tight, I will usually open the restraints and let them pull it down again.

When I check restraints, I generally am trying to push-pull while leaving the restraint at the position the guest chose to pull it to. If I push it farther, I probably didn't mean to; the ratchet just clicked. If the guest pulls it loosely and it's safe, I'm going to push-pull and mostly leave it loose. If a guest asks for me to staple them, then I will.

"Not so tight" is not annoying. It's nice to know whether you want it tighter or not. Many general public members want their restraint as tight as it can go so they feel safer, so it's nice to know you prefer it looser. Generally, as long as you have your hands clear so I can push-pull, I'm happy with you. But again, this depends on ride-op. It's not annoying to make a comment like that, that is the least annoying thing you can do. People fighting about loose articles or sitting on handrails is much more irritating than a quick statement about your restraint preference. ^_^ You can also always use your legs strategically to make it so I can't push it down harder. But a quick "I like it like this" or "I like it loose" or "Not so tight" is fine.

Remember, we don't necessarily know how you want it, so telling us can defo help depending on who it is.

Thanks for the answer. I wish all ride-ops had your attitude. So many seem determined to push down as far as the bar can go.

I don't usually say anything -- and in fact I've never been one to fuss much about the restraints' tightness -- but a few weeks ago I was stapled so painfully on El Toro that lately I've been trying out the "Not too tight, please" thing now and then. One op on Wicked Cyclone seemed to hear me and responded accordingly, and the result was my most enjoyable ride of the day.

 

[Mack]

Thanks for the answer. I wish all ride-ops had your attitude. So many seem determined to push down as far as the bar can go.

Some of them are just not well-informed on how restraints work or had poor training -- generally the policy is the guest pulls down the restraint to avoid this dilemma. If they staple, you can always try riding again and getting a different attendant or asking management if that restraint-checking was compliant with policy (because it's probably wrong), a simple, "How can I talk to a supervisor" or trip to guest services can accomplish this, as at my park that would warrant a bit of retraining, genuinely, as they might be causing discomfort for many guests by pushing so hard.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Some of them are just not well-informed on how restraints work or had poor training -- generally the policy is the guest pulls down the restraint to avoid this dilemma. If they staple, you can always try riding again and getting a different attendant or asking management if that restraint-checking was compliant with policy (because it's probably wrong), a simple, "How can I talk to a supervisor" or trip to guest services can accomplish this, as at my park that would warrant a bit of retraining, genuinely, as they might be causing discomfort for many guests by pushing so hard.

I don't think I'd take the time to inform on a ride op. Well, I don't think I'd consider it unless the ride op did something ridiculous or was extremely rude. I guess I could have considered it after my El Toro experience, as I spent the ride bracing myself because I instinctively felt I was in danger of an internal injury.

 

[Mack]

Haha, yeah, I don't really expect you to bother complaining, but that attendant in all seriousness clearly didn't understand training and needs to be re-trained on how to properly check restraints.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

I have a question for ride ops or anyone else who thinks he/she knows.

A couple of nights ago I was marathoning Skyrush. I had done the front row many times, so I was picking different rows, trying out middle seats and wing seats as well. This was in the last couple of hours the park was open, so there was little to no line -- front row aside, all the other rows involved walking right up and choosing a lane, which might have one or two groups ahead, or you might just walk right on to the next arriving train.

But with about 45 minutes left till closing, the ride ops started assigning rows, telling everyone where they had to go. I was under the impression that ride ops might switch to seat assignments only as a means of processing large crowds more efficiently. In this case, there was close to no line.

In my experience, ride ops get more relaxed in the last half hour of operation, not stricter and more controlling. Does anyone know why the ride ops might have decided they needed to make this annoying switch?

 

[SaiyanHajime]

If the average op in charge of restraints were asked by a patron "Not so tight, please!" do you think the op would be influenced by the request at all?

Please tell the attendant before they begin, because release and re-check can take a long time on certain rides. If your attendant is a douch about it, complain about them. If they insist it has to be tight, you'll just have to tolerate their ignorance. If you told me not to push it tight, I'd be like "sure! you pull it to where you want it and I'll check it" because I'm the best.

In my experience, ride ops get more relaxed in the last half hour of operation, not stricter and more controlling. Does anyone know why the ride ops might have decided they needed to make this annoying switch?

Hershey's operations are strange at the best of times, but my educated guess would be that they were shorter staffed earlier in the day but later in the day had enough staff to then man that position. Skyrush needs a batcher imo, because groups of two often sit in the middle seats leaving the wings empty. Eugh.


Just in case anyone out there has worked at Hershey - any idea why some rides they double check restraints? As in, two members of staff check them? It seems to mostly be a thing at Great Bear... I've noticed it twice, on separate years, so it's obviously procedural. I can only assume that they've had issues with staff missing rows there, for whatever reason. Maybe the way the station is laid out is problematic. Anyone got a better theory?

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Please tell the attendant before they begin, because release and re-check can take a long time on certain rides. If your attendant is a douch about it, complain about them. If they insist it has to be tight, you'll just have to tolerate their ignorance. If you told me not to push it tight, I'd be like "sure! you pull it to where you want it and I'll check it" because I'm the best.

Yes, as I mentioned, I say it BEFORE they touch the restraints -- as they approach and I've got my hands in the air. I've had a few that seem to listen and leave it less tight. Others ignore and staple.

Again, I wish I always had you guys as ride ops! And by the way, it's not just a matter of comfort, but the quality of the ride. Best ride I had on Nitro by far was the one for which the op didn't crunch the bar down because I asked. That ride alone raised my opinion of Nitro. And I suspect that the reason Phoenix is such an amazing coaster is mostly because of those amazingly unrestrictive lapbars.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Hershey's operations are strange at the best of times, but my educated guess would be that they were shorter staffed earlier in the day but later in the day had enough staff to then man that position. Skyrush needs a batcher imo, because groups of two often sit in the middle seats leaving the wings empty. Eugh.

So you're saying that Skyrush normally assigns seats? (This was my first time riding Skyrush, so I wouldn't know.)

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Again, I wish I always had you guys as ride ops! And by the way, it's not just a matter of comfort, but the quality of the ride. Best ride I had on Nitro by far was the one for which the op didn't crunch the bar down because I asked. That ride alone raised my opinion of Nitro. And I suspect that the reason Phoenix is such an amazing coaster is mostly because of those amazingly unrestrictive lapbars.

Totally agree - pro tip for avoiding stapling, if you slide your butt forwards on coasters which restrain at the hips (most, even with OTSRs do this, like say the B&M vest) it's impossible to be pinned unless staff notice you doing it and tell you to sit back, which I've never had happen. On OTSRs like the conventional B&M restraint, you can avoid being pinned by pushing your shoulders forward but keeping upright so not to be noticed. Be sensible with your distance and comply if staff notice and tell you to sit back.

For anyone reading this concerned about the safety of leaving a gap between you and the restraint, you're held by the inability to bend your knees unaturally forwards... So as long as that requirement is met, you're safe. I am merely proposing a gap of only 1-2 inches rather than being crushed in your seat and would argue this is actually safer, because,in a potential delay or breakdown, you're not being held painfully tight for what could be along time.

So you're saying that Skyrush normally assigns seats? (This was my first time riding Skyrush, so I wouldn't know.)

I've seen them doing it at least once (and sucking at it), but I've also seen them not. I suspect it's just a case of when they have extra staff they do it. The aim of batching is to maximise the number of riders per hour, but if the staff member sucks at it then it's useless. You can always try asking staff if you have a preferred seat, they can only say no. I try to accommodate weird requests, especially if someone asks for back row because chances are they're a fellow nerd.

 

[toofpikk]

stapling
I don't staple people if I can avoid it. Sometimes it has to be done because of a body-size. Different parks will train you to check bars in different, sometimes very specific ways which means bars will be tighter at some places then others, this is also highlighted by the fact no 2 rides restraint systems are exactly the same. Pretty much (?)
ride vehicles
In my experience, ride numbers are determined in the morning based on the average amount of visitors for that time of year/day. At one park I worked at, we had to have at least 3/4 capacity all the time, and if more was demanded it was easily done by a nearby team leader in the space of 5 minutes. At another park I've worked at this system take a little longer and is negotiated by the engineers as well, and the demand has to be really prominent because of complications with that specific coaster.
Seat assignments
At the end of the day you're going to have a lot of re-riders, and getting them to be assigned like this is both a deterrent and it means it's much more organised which makes operations quicker, thus getting them out of the way quicker. It means that all spaces are filled so as soon as it's closing time, you've got as many people as you can out of the way as efficiently as possible. (In my experience, mack's are the best)
ride types and ease of operation
As Joey as highlighted, smaller rides are much, much easier to operate. The less restrictions on the ride, the better, however when you have a massive team, it really helps as well.
The only significant difference I've experienced in ride operation is when the park actually manufactures, or has a huge say in how the ride should be ran during the development, is it easier to run. And trust me, it makes a hell of a difference. All control panels are basically the same, big green button, big red button, screen, and a bunch of stuff locked off for the engineers.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Totally agree - pro tip for avoiding stapling, if you slide your butt forwards on coasters which restrain at the hips (most, even with OTSRs do this, like say the B&M vest) it's impossible to be pinned unless staff notice you doing it and tell you to sit back, which I've never had happen. On OTSRs like the conventional B&M restraint, you can avoid being pinned by pushing your shoulders forward but keeping upright so not to be noticed. Be sensible with your distance and comply if staff notice and tell you to sit back.

Yes, I gradually got better at scooting my butt forward on Skyrush. I usually think leg/hip restraint systems are something other people complain about, not me, so I wasn't too concerned at first, but a morning ride made my feet and legs go numb. I came back to it at night and since the restraints were across the middle of my thighs, each moment of sudden ejector air felt like someone hitting my thighs with a bat (72 hours later and my thighs are still bruised and sore). But the ride was so great otherwise that I kept riding it, so I got better at scooting forward -- even after the restraints were down -- so that the pressure was on my upper thigh and hips, not the middle of the thighs.

You know, it seems as if Hershey know they have a problem, because when the train finishes its run and sits on the brake run waiting to enter the station, they release the restraint pressure, and huge groans of relief are heard from most of the riders. The very fact that they know they have to alleviate the pressure as soon as possible suggests a real issue here.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Seat assignments
At the end of the day you're going to have a lot of re-riders, and getting them to be assigned like this is both a deterrent and it means it's much more organised which makes operations quicker, thus getting them out of the way quicker.

You're saying parks want to deter re-riders?

 

[toofpikk]

Not at all, I'm saying they want them to spread out. Why go to the same ride over and over again when you're going to be seated somewhere randomly, and not where you'd like. It makes guests spread out a bit better, and even then the only ones who'd really care are people like us, who'd prefer to have a specific seat.

 

[MestnyiGeroi]

Not at all, I'm saying they want them to spread out. Why go to the same ride over and over again when you're going to be seated somewhere randomly, and not where you'd like. It makes guests spread out a bit better, and even then the only ones who'd really care are people like us, who'd prefer to have a specific seat.

Thanks for the replies.

I think there are a lot of people who want to choose their seats -- not just enthusiasts. And in the case I was bringing up, there was almost no line at all, so that's why I was wondering why the ops felt it necessary to step in and manage the riders so tightly.