Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

How drugs work...

furie said:
Joey said:
I cannot understand why anyone would want to smoke weed... But I also don't really understand why it's illegal. I'd rather it remained illegal because quite frankly I don't want another legal drug along with alcohol making people behave like retards in public.

I watched it on iPlayer when I was looking for a good documentary to watch. It was meh. There have been some awesome documentaries on recently, this was not one of them.
Click to expand...

You need to watch this program Joey:
http://documentaryheaven.com/do-i-drink-too-much/
(it's split into six parts)

It explains (to a degree) why some people become alcoholics, while others simply enjoy it and others just really don't get on with it at all.

It's much better than the "How drugs work..." documentary - which I never said was good, just interesting... I guess how interesting depends on how interested you really are on the subject and "How drugs work..." is almost certainly aimed at users.

But yeah, people like to enjoy themselves with mind altering drugs, tough :p
Click to expand...
Ooo, I shall give it a watch.

In the meantime though, becoming addicted or enjoying something once you've tried it makes sense. My confusion is why do people try it? And more importantly, after trying it once with negative affects (using Ben as an example here), why do people then try it again, and again until they enjoy it? That is illogical.

Frankly I think there is only one answer... peer pressure. Anyone who denies that it's peer pressure doesn's understand that you don't need to be forced or bullied into doing things you don't want to do for it to be peer pressure. Simply conforming subconciously is the same thing. There is nothing necissarilly wrong with peer pressure, it makes human society tick as normal, but it has dark sides too. Such as what's explored with the milgram experiment.

P.s. I apologise for poor spelling if there is any, I am without a spell checker atm as the Macbook is throwing a hissy fit at me and breathing loudly.
 
I can probably answer to a degree, though I'm definitely not going to debunk your peer pressure theory entirely, I think there certainly a degree of it.

The documentary I posted above explains that for some people, alcohol "excites" pleasure centres. So even if you don't like the taste, your brain is now working against you. So it may be some time before you try it again, but in the right conditions, your brain will be craving it again against your will.

It's like when sometimes only chocolate will do, or sometimes it just has to be crisps, or cheese... It's cravings and it's your brain subconsciously telling you "I am in need of this substance". Obviously with food, it's for a slightly different reason, but before you ever ate chocolate, your body would never crave it. Chocolate is addictive and in some people stimulates the exact same parts of the brain other drugs stimulate. Chocolate is often consumed purely to feed the same addiction mechanisms that cause people to drink and smoke.

Erm, lost track a bit there :lol:

Why do we try things in the first place? Well, it IS peer pressure. You can't sit in a room on your own one night never having had alcohol and suddenly think "I'll try some of that!". You have to be in the environment where it's available for you to try, which means a pub or party situation. If everyone is doing it (and especially alcohol) it's "the norm", then you don't feel pressured or uncomfortable trying it.

Though, having said that, I tried alcohol at an early age out of curiosity (my grandad used to brew his own wine). I didn't want to get drunk (didn't know what drunk was), I was just interested in a "new taste sensation".

Minor_Furie has had alcohol for the same reason. If he wants to try something, I'm not going to stop him. He likes some ciders, but not very much. I guess if we'd never had alcohol, he'd never have tried it until a party/pub situation.

Erm, this is leading somewhere. I hated alcohol when I was younger, but I also hated Pizza and Spaghetti. As I grew and matured, so did my taste buds and my reaction to different food stuffs. My physiology in that area has changed to be more accepting of different tastes and experiences. Like the "buzz" from chocolate, there's also an addictive buzz associated with chilli. When I was 18 I'd never consider anything in the slightest bit hot, but now I crave move chilli heat. I've changed.

Why did I start smoking? We'll I tried it when drunk once. I didn't think it did much and never touched it again for around 18 months. I was actually at that time though in the probably the biggest "smoking culture" of peers in my life. Everyone all of the time smoked dope. Everywhere I went, people were skinning up and I never bothered with it. So it was hardly "peer pressure" that got me smoking.

I actually started because of stress. I was having a lot of trouble dealing with things, and I just caved in one night and had a drag on a spliff being passed around. It was simply me just trying to find an answer for being uptight at that moment in a way I'd completely failed to tackle with any other method.

It didn't work to remove the stress, I'm not stupid. Taking any kind of drugs is a way to simply delay having to deal with things. However, I did get high, and I did enjoy it (and I forgot about the stress and anxiety that night). More so than being drunk (particularly the following day, I always find getting stoned invigorates and motivates me the following day).

Obviously that's just for me, but I assume my brain just recognised the soporific effect from the first time I'd tried it, and it clicked and made sense for me at that moment.

I know for a fact I have "an addictive personality". I love things that make me feel good. I love having a drink, I love having a smoke, I love chilli, I love anything that brings on a rush of feel good chemicals. Fortunately, I'm also pretty strong willed and need to be in control. That's why I don't like "chemicals" or eating dope. You can't stop once you're wasted as much as you want to be. I like to "get off" when I'm happy enough and still in enough control (though alcohol sometimes (often :roll: ) gets me by surprise).

So yeah, I do think that people will try under peer pressure, but I don't think exercising curiosity is a bad thing. I think that a "second experience" after a bad first one is either a subconscious craving effect, or simply the knowledge that you just did it wrong the first time. Peer pressure may be involved too, but I think that peer pressure falls by the wayside once you've tried something once.
 
I see what you mean and I agree. But...

Remember the whole Peadophiles Guide thing with Amazon? And the issues surounding it regarding free speech and so forth? The book is bothersome for me because it's an invitation for people to discover an interest. You can't know until you experiance something that you enjoy it, or not, and reading about it is a form of experiance. I'm not saying that everyone who read it would go out and abuse children, but you get my point. You arguably have to have an element of curiosity, as you said, to exercise though. If you have no interest what so ever, then even if you would enjoy it you're unlikley to. If you make something avalible and "ok", then people who would have avoided it are more likley to exercise curiosity because it's there and being made avalible. Less people watched porn before the internet. Porn was avalible, but along with social stigma there was no need for it because of less exposure to it.

I'm not saying we should live in a censored society with no exposure to these things. I'm just saying that the bull**** argument that legalising cannabis would see a significent fall in usage is, well, bull****.

Slightly relevent and interesting note... We throw cockatiel seed mix remains out for wild birds. Sometimes things sprout, like sunflowers, millet, grass, etc. Last year I noticed a plant which is definately a some specie of canabis. Whether or not it's psychoactive is beyond me as I suspect many species of it are not, but it is female.
 
Nope, I agree. However, there's a major difference between people smoking weed and going out and abusing children. Like, seriously different ;)

I'm not 100% for legalising pot, but I think it should be decriminalised, simply because it's making over 3 million regular Brits (who mostly hold down jobs) criminals, with a potential of three years in jail. Simply for taking a drug which is no more harmful than alcohol and has less "social problems" than alcohol. Why not ban alcohol and make dope legal? ;) I agree though that a change in the law to make it acceptable would show an increase in the use of the drug.

I'll bet that the plant is psychoactive (and I've heard of this happening before which led to the police questioning a friend's grandmother). See, with it currently being illegal, you could be put in jail for up to three years Joey for having it growing there ;)
 
Joey said:
And more importantly, after trying it once with negative affects (using Ben as an example here), why do people then try it again, and again until they enjoy it? That is illogical.
Click to expand...

Because I still had three more days in Amsterdam and had all the creds :wink:
 
Joey its like a coaster, we all ride ones we did not like in the hope we might like it. Why do we do it who knows?

I learnt my lesson years ago with drugs and will never touch them again, but until that night I had never had a problem before. It was the 1st and last time I ever used skunk.
 
furie said:
Nope, I agree. However, there's a major difference between people smoking weed and going out and abusing children. Like, seriously different ;)

I'm not 100% for legalising pot, but I think it should be decriminalised, simply because it's making over 3 million regular Brits (who mostly hold down jobs) criminals, with a potential of three years in jail. Simply for taking a drug which is no more harmful than alcohol and has less "social problems" than alcohol. Why not ban alcohol and make dope legal? ;) I agree though that a change in the law to make it acceptable would show an increase in the use of the drug.

I'll bet that the plant is psychoactive (and I've heard of this happening before which led to the police questioning a friend's grandmother). See, with it currently being illegal, you could be put in jail for up to three years Joey for having it growing there ;)
Click to expand...
Haha, I'm not comparing smoking weed to child abuse, I'm just using it as an easy example. But you know this.

As for the plant, I think it's highly unlikley anyone would be sent to prison from having ONE plant growing OUTSIDE clearly not being cultivated. It's dead now anyway, because it's winter. Questioning from police possibly, but not arrested. Besides, nothing to do with me, ain't my house.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:05 pm
Joey its like a coaster, we all ride ones we did not like in the hope we might like it. Why do we do it who knows?
Click to expand...
It's not the same at all, since riding coasters isn't a taboo.

Because I still had three more days in Amsterdam and had all the creds Wink
Click to expand...
Lol, nothing against you personally, but this is exactly what I dislike about alcohol/smoking/drug culture. It's not funny that you had nothing else to do in Amsterdam, it's pathetic in reality.
 
Ian said:
I wish I wasn't pissed and stoned because it makes the story unbelievable, but hey, it's life enhancing. :lol:
Click to expand...

If you weren't pissed and stoned you wouldn't have seen a ghost, because... you didn't see a ghost... ;-)

Drugs, eh? Never have. Don't really see the point.

Obviously with the nights out I have, I encounter it all the time. Refusing seems to weirdly gain you a lot of respect.

If I'm out on a night out, the music is my high really. Once the music stops doing that, it'll probably be time to stop going out. I wouldn't turn to drugs!

I see it as a weakness really, I can find pleasure in my "normal" life, and don't feel the need to enhance it with drugs.

I guess that's kind of hypocritical as I do drink (although not much, and I rarely get wrecked... I don't really enjoy being slaughtered), but oh well, what are you going to do?

If I started doing drugs, you might find me talking some irrational, illogical rubbish about ghosts, and that would be silly!
 
Ha ha! You two make it sound like people who drink or take drugs have sad lives with no way of enjoying themselves without narcotic stimulation and their idea of a "good night" is sitting in a darkened room in the quiet jacking up over a bottle Jack Daniels :p

This did get me thinking about this (Martyn's post). I've only once been high (mix of beer and dope) at a concert. Like with theme parks, I don't feel the need to mix narcotics with the experience to enhance it. As with Martyn, I get a kick out of the music and surrounding atmosphere. There's no need to add anything else.

Likewise, when I went to Donington in September, I didn't drink during the racing. I enjoy it enough without needing to drink, and drinking just confuses things, it's harder to follow detracting from the experience.

The point is, drinking and taking drugs (for me) isn't something I need to do to increase my experience of things I enjoy. It's an additional thing I enjoy. It may sound "pathetic" that a hobby, as such, is "taking mind altering substances" - but it really isn't.

We ride coasters for the thrill and enjoyment. The kick we get from it is just a different way of getting "high". For my parents, the most notable thing about a theme park is the quality of the coffee and Danish pastries. For most people on here, they'd say "it's sad that the most they get out of Alton Towers is a Latter and a Cinnamon Whirl". They can't understand why anyone would consider going on a roller coaster when you could be just sitting down having a nice cuppa.

It's an each to their own situation. For me, drinking (and smoking) is a social thing. I loved the Dreamland Live at Margate, we had a great laugh with the water pistol fights and arsing around on the beach. I suspect there were a lot of people around though who were less than impressed by our "high spirits".

We didn't need narcotics to enjoy that time, but you can't always be so "up". A drink (or smoke) with friends is a similar social situation. Sitting around talking is a good thing and it can be mixed with enjoying a high too. I tend to only smoke now when I play poker with the in-laws. It doesn't enhance the game, or make me better or worse at it, it's just part of the socialising aspect. I enjoy the feeling and I enjoy poker and the two in this case can be happily mixed.

As for the whole Amsterdam thing... To be honest, there's nothing in Amsterdam that attracts me other than the café culture (except maybe Toverland and Walibi nearby). I'm not into visiting countries just because it's exciting to visit other countries (I'm latte and Cinnamon whirl on that front). I don't get anything out of different architecture, random pockets of history or interesting transport systems (as provided in a foreign country).

A cultural visit to Amsterdam to me would be the same as a cultural visit to Birmingham. It just passes me by as something that doesn't do anything for me. Like Ben, the reason I'd be there would be purely to enjoy getting socially high. The reason I've never been is because it's a lot of money and effort for something of little gain (so I do agree to a degree, but if I had the time and money then it would be likely to happen).

This doesn't mean I'm culturally retarded. I spent a week in Normandy thoroughly enjoying Caen, Mont Saint-Michel and Harfleur and the surrounding countryside. I also really regret not getting the most from Venice when I was there, but both areas contain very specific areas of historic interest for me. The same interest which had me hunt down the castle in Newcastle-Under-Lyme and explore the ruins of Rougemont castle (hidden from the public for 100 years). The same reason I get a buzz from Ludlow castle. I have very specific tastes in these things and Amsterdam doesn't appeal to them.

So, the point is, it's just "another thing in life to enjoy", not a replacement or a life enhancer (though I suspect some people lose sight of this which Martyn experiences). It's no different to getting enjoyment out of anything in life, it's not replacing or stopping you from doing and enjoying other things in a natural state...
 
See, I'd consider hanging out and having a chat an experiance that really does not need enhancing, which is the experiance most people enhance with alcohol or drugs. In fact, hanging out and chatting is an experiance that enhances OTHER things, like theme parks. I think communicating with other people on some sort of vaughly intelegent level is one of life's great pleasures, and I find it so bothersome that someone else would want to ruin that. And this thought process leads me to the idea that people who drink, or take drugs, in such social situations aren't clever enough to hold a conversation... Which is obviously not true, but like... Yeah, can't fathom why you'd want to take a good experiance and ruin the fundamental part of it.

Cannabis in particular switches off parts of the brain which are valuble to me. I don't like communicating with people who have been taking it, you get blank tired stares or irrelevent rambling.

The ability to think clearly is something sooooo valuble and I find it so depressing that anyone would want to ruin that, even temporarilly, "for fun".

EDIT: On a slightly relevent note, when I've drunk too much coffee I hate what it does to my ability to think. And all coffee does is cause you to make quicker, often wrong, decisions out of impatience.
 
I know where you're coming from Joey, I really do. It's a bit like saying "that rollercoaster really interrupted and ruined this theme park visit of fantastic conversations" ;)

There are also degrees of intoxication you're not taking into account. As the program showed, you can have a much better conversation (better use of vocabulary and the ability to link abstract ideas in an intelligent/artistic way) while stoned... However, not too stoned to the point where brain function stops working.

If it was really all blank stares and drooling, I'd never be able to play poker (and win) while smoking. There are levels and lower levels can improve things.

Certainly when I've had a couple of beers, I'm not drunk, but I am more relaxed. I'm (honestly) a very shy and reserved person, cowed by crowds of people. Drinking (and smoking) helps me overcome that shyness and helps me to generate conversation.

Obviously, if you don't suffer from that and have the confidence in your conversation (confidence not being linked to intelligence) then you're not going to understand how much it helps.

It's all linked together I think. For those of us "hard wired" to enjoy these things, I suspect that it's also linked to confidence levels too.

Also, I spend the majority of my time awake "switched on". I do very little passively other than sleep. I find the idea of using narcotics to force my brain to shut down and relax for a while something of a relief. I agree that being straight in a crowd of people up on something is tedious. It's why I keep that side of things separate. I have a time to "party" where I'm with other people also who are doing that. If you go to a party for intellectual stimulation, then you're probably in the wrong place. It's like going to KFC and expecting haute cuisine.

It's horses for courses to be honest Joey. I'm not trying to convert you (or Martyn) to this way of thinking, it's just the way we are - different. I can understand where you're coming from, and I'm trying to just explain things from the other side too (particularly as this side of the fence is the most common/vocal :p ).
 
I agree with you, it's just the fact that in practise legalising canabis would be ****.

It doesn't make sense that alcohol and tobacco are legal whilst cannabis is not, but that doesn't mean cannabis should be made legal. Alcohol and tobacco are ingrained social elements (as much as I dislike this fact). Cannabis isn't, and making it legal would risk it becoming so.

You cannot use evidence of a certain country who's leniancy on cannabis has not seen a rise in it's use as an example, because the UK is a very different place where alcohol is a huge problem.

People don't just smoke, drink or do drugs in certain environments. And even those of you who are claiming you are sensible with your intoxicants probably are not all the time. I can't choose to escape people partaking in these activities, because no matter what the law says people will still smoke in queuelines or at train stations with complete disregard for those around them. And people will still get drunk and be loud, obnoxious and try to involve people who want nothing to do with them on the street or on public transport. Because these laws were brought in AFTER doing these habbits became social norms.

People cannot be trusted to be sensible with their drugs, they just can't.
 
Agreed they can't. However, much of it is to do with a very poor attitude we have with these things. We make them socially unacceptable, so when people do get to do it, they go over board. We just have a very poor relationship in the UK with these things.

The problem is that dope use is huge. Over 3 million people regularly do it. That's over three million people who should go to jail for their recreational drug use. Shall we round them all up now? Let's face it, who'd server you a burger if that happened? :p

This is why decriminalising it is that way to go. Specific places allowed to sell it and for you to smoke it (as well as in your own home of course). Government control on its use. Yes, use would rise, but by saying "here are where you're allowed to do it" and then coming down heavily on people who do it elsewhere you may actually have a better environment. Maybe...

As for alcohol, it's a fact that the countries with the lowest legal age limits and the most socially acceptable drinking lifestyle have the lowest numbers of alcohol health and social issues.

Why do I drink my alcohol quota of a weekend and not during the week (when I drink)? It's because it's not socially acceptable to "drink on a school night". So when most of us do drink, we don't do it in moderation. Again, it's like this because people abused it in the past, but there's never (in this country) really been any alternative attitude. Though you have to remember, until the 20th century, most poor people used to constantly drink alcohol of some for rather than any other liquid. It was healthier and safer to have a light beer (around 1%) all day than to drink water. I don't know if people ever got quite as drunk as they do now in the same way, but I suspect not to be honest.

We need to educate people and stop making things "special". I don't know how to do it, but I truly believe that's the way get people to be sensible.
 
I suppose you're right, but I think the UK with it's lower drinking age has more of a drink problem than the US. Just from personal observation. But, again, I think this is mostly because the UK is special.

No amount of education or...er, de-special-lising.... yeah, will make people more considerate cigarette smokers. Nothing. Because addictions apparently make people unconsiderate. I'm sorry if this offends anyone reading, but it seems evident. Cannabis isn't technically addictive, but given most people in western society have an addiction to all kinds of things (such as roller coaster forums) I find it hard to beleive that a great number of people wouldn't develop a dependancy on taking canabis as a kind of hobby. :/

There's also the issue of, you can make alcohol illegal on public transport... or smoking illegle indoors public places, but that doesn't stop drunk people coming on public transport or people who stink of smoking sitting next to me. The idea of more stonned people wondering about makes me feel sick.
 
Martyn said:
If I started doing drugs, you might find me talking some irrational, illogical rubbish about ghosts, and that would be silly!
Click to expand...
That is the one and only time I've ever had anything irrational and illogic happen to me! I've been in a similar state many times before and many times since, but I've never seen anything that actually wasn't (in all probability) there.
 
I will be a bit off-topic since I haven't seen that documentary, but all the discussion about the legal-status of cannabis and the need to do alcohol, drugs etc- discussions are too hard to stay away from.

I wouldn't like to go back to this, but I just think is funny when people say there's nothing to see in Amsterdam except well, coffee shops and a certain light district, I guess if people don't like history, art, just experiencing another culture, of course, please do what you want. But now when it comes to Amsterdam (and dutch towns near borders) all the tourists who came there simply to getting off-the walls (yeah I don't know if anyone uses that term or if it's so "1998 or something :lol:)stoned (and maybe mix alcohol and magic truffles) are and have sort of bitten the hand that feeds them, as as it was for long discussed, banning the sale of cannabis, hasch for people who don't have a dutch id, is a matter currently being discussed in the city council- or what do you call it? and well, the decision should be ready quite soon (although it's looking quite unlikely that they will stop the sale for foreigners, the fact that it actually got to a debate on a high political level means that things people taken for granted (lol...) could change easily, as with the banning of magic mushrooms etc.

...

I have so much to say about this topic, but to put it simple, yes I do think cannabis should be decriminalized and taxed by the state.
If that happened, there's one legislative thing that should be changed or even looked into, which is "driving under the influence of drugs", as opposed to alcohol, cannabis stays in your body so much longer, apparently if you've only smoked it once, you can detect it in your urine for 3-7 days, and for a lot longer if you smoke it regularly. Sure they don't do a piss-test when your driving...but I'm sure the amount somehow relates to what you would get in a breathalyzer test?. Also in a reality/documentary series called Amsterdam nights, a cab driver said while driving "yes I had 5 joints today, but I can drive just fine" which he might do, but I wouldn't really like it if my cab driver (or even worse bus-driver) had done that...

---

furie said:
As for alcohol, it's a fact that the countries with the lowest legal age limits and the most socially acceptable drinking lifestyle have the lowest numbers of alcohol health and social issues.
Click to expand...
Very true. I also completely agree about the drinking in the middle of the week thing. It's pretty much exactly so in Sweden and ever more in Finland with the drinking culture, I mean "getting really drunk culture" which is so strong that for our -care-taking more or less socialistic form of state, allowing another substance would be such a nightmare to take control of. Also it's quite amusing in Finland, when you've for example read in news, at least a dozen of times, during one year of the police finding home-plantations of cannabis and other related news.. and slowly the general attitudes against cannabis are started to turn, but there's still a long way to go. Yet it was interesting that they decriminalyzed the medical cannabis about one year ago in Finland. Only like 15 people or so have the right to go and buy it for their needs and it's so strongly regulated.
Still, if you go to discussion forums of a newspaper there's still clearly more people who think that cannabis smokers (even if there would be a 1 joint a weekend guy talked about) are extremely lazy, worthless, hippie (yeah that's very bad according to them...) unemployed people. Whereas the complainer guy, could get hammered many days a week and destroy things, get into fights and be scary drunk in front of his kids etc. but no that is still much more socially acceptable :roll:

Joey said:
I suppose you're right, but I think the UK with it's lower drinking age has more of a drink problem than the US. Just from personal observation.
Click to expand...
Very sure that's true, I guess that would be an exception and looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_age there are quite many countries with the age-limit of 20-21 which have much less drinking related problems (at least that I've heard of) than the UK.

Personally I've only tried pot twice in Finland and then in the Netherlands last summer. It's something I enjoy, but want to keep sort of special to rare occasions, which happens automatically around here, as it's harder to get, well compared to I guess pretty much any country in Europe... also I don't want to pay like around 10£ for a gram of something that usually is bad...
 
Joey said:
Honestly Ian, you believe in ghosts?
Click to expand...
No I don't. I don't believe in anything **** like that; ghosts, God, Leprechauns, vampires etc.

I'm not going go through the entire story again, but even after seeing the ghost, I'm still a non-believer. That's the first and only time I've presumably hallucinated when pissed and stoned.
 
I see it as a weakness really, I can find pleasure in my "normal" life, and don't feel the need to enhance it with drugs.
Click to expand...

It's not about really enhancing your life, you can say that about anything then. You can say that a computer is unnecessary, because it enhances our life. You can say that Ipods and cameras are unnecessary, because it enhances our life. Movie theaters and theme parks can also be considered unnecessary because entertainment venues are only good for bringing us some kind of fun. So what's the difference between going to a movie theater for two hours with friends, or sitting and smoking weed? It's something to do recreationally for most, not something needed to enhance life. I only do it every once in a while and it's certainly not for the purpose of enhancing my life :p . It's just for fun or something to do with friends, same as drinking really.

I'm not going go through the entire story again, but even after seeing the ghost, I'm still a non-believer. That's the first and only time I've presumably hallucinated when pissed and stoned.
Click to expand...

I hallucinated really bad once, and it was while driving. On my way to work. But yah, it wasn't the best experience because it was at night and unless I was paying attention, every single street light on the side of the road was a truck about to run into my car.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top