Green Lantern - New credit... or not?

[furie]

Aren't clones all slightly different, though? Like, not a lot, but a little because humans aren't perfect in construction and stuff?

This is true, but...

People here say "same track, same credit - environment and theming does not change that fact". Yet parts of Nemesis and The Big One have been changed over the years. The Grand National is not the same coaster today as it was when I rode it in 1982 - every bit of that wood has been replaced since then and the layout will have changed subtly over the years.

So, why is that not then considered a "new cred" and a clone is?

Then your point CMonster; the clones are indeed going to produce slight differences due to the manufacturing process. If moving Traumatizer from a dry beach environment at Southport to an over water environment with fountains and effects doesn't make Infusion a new ride, then why does [say] a 3mm tolerance difference across a weld in the manufacturing process between two clones?

Also then consider the way a ride changes during the day. Often the ride will run much more sluggishly in the morning to later in the day. At night and after light rain, a coaster experience can be utterly different - considerably more different than the difference between one clone and another in some cases. Should each outstanding extreme of ride then change if it is a new cred or not?

When I rode Phoenix it was dreadful, utterly awful. I hope to return to Knoebels one day and ride it in all it's glory, but it's still one credit despite being awful one day and superb another. Yet each SLC I ride will still be... an SLC... They will all be pretty much the same ride time of time, clone after clone.

I understand the "different track, different coaster" rule, I just think it's flawed...

 

[Darren B]

The simple answer is no... if you've ridden a travelling rollercoaster (the same travelling rollercoaster) 5 times but in 5 different locations do you count that as 5 different credits.... obviously no, so what makes it any different to how you count chang/green lantern? same rollercoaster, but different location!

 

[D1993]

yeah i wouldnt count it as a new credit.
what would people say about medusa changing to bizarro is that a new credit?
same for bizarro at sfne changing from superman ros.
i didnt think it would be a new credit but wondering what people thought.

 

[mouse]

yeah i wouldnt count it as a new credit.
what would people say about medusa changing to bizarro is that a new credit?
same for bizarro at sfne changing from superman ros.
i didnt think it would be a new credit but wondering what people thought.

 

[dropthefloor93]

It's a new credit because it is in a different location. It's not like riding RoS and then Bizarro and calling it two different credits. These parks are very far from eachother not to mention the theme is quite different. Chang and Green Lantern as far as i care apply like clones.

and Ben, the US Has alot more B&M's and larger rollercoasters than Brits do.

 

[furie]

These parks are very far from eachother not to mention the theme is quite different. Chang and Green Lantern as far as i care apply like clones..

Well, the theme on Bizarro is very different to the one on Medusa, so that should push it into "different coaster" territory. As you're not doing that, let's scrub that half of your argument.


Every ride moves. The Earth is travelling at around 1/2 Kph, so every ride you have, the coaster is in a different place. On top of that, the earth is revolving around the sun at 30Kph, so it's constantly a new credit as you're riding it. My coaster count is now up to 34,987 and that's just from riding Shockwave and Ben 10 at Drayton Manor the other week

Okay, serious counterpoint (why are people unable to counterpoint properly these days? ).

If they moved Blackbeard's Lost Treasure Train from it's current location to the other side of the park, would you class that as a new credit? No? Because it's in the same park? Because it hasn't "travelled far enough"? How far would it have to travel? If SFGAdv became "dropthefloor93's Fantastic Park for Fantastic People" and the ride moved, and had a new space theme - would it be a new credit? No, it wouldn't, so all the arguments fail.

 

[Thekingin64]

The simple answer is no... if you've ridden a travelling rollercoaster (the same travelling rollercoaster) 5 times but in 5 different locations do you count that as 5 different credits.... obviously no, so what makes it any different to how you count chang/green lantern? same rollercoaster, but different location!

What if you didn't know it was the same travelling coaster? Most of the GP won't know chang and green lantern are the same coaster. So I'm thinking what the GP would think basically.

 

[Hixee]

I work on this logic now:

If my brother (or anyone for that matter) and I can ride each ride simultaneously then they're two separate credits. Whether they're clones or not. Therefore this wouldn't be two. Does that make sense?

No doubt there's a huge loophole in that that I've overlooked... *waits for someone to spot the flaw*

 

[Snoo]

^That.

I've been thinking of a rebuttal to furie like 3 pages ago.. but Matt pulled it together perfectly.

My issue is this... If you went for a job as a professional test driver for a car review magazine, or a manufacturer and they said:

"So, how much experience do you have of driving different cars?"

and you're answer was:

"I've driven 200 cars"

The issue is that if all of those 200 cars were different Toyota Yaris then it's completely irrelevant. The job is really after you having experience riding different models. You've not lied in the interview, but it may get you the job over somebody who has only driven 50 cars, but they were all Ferraris, Porches, Astons, etc.

So it all comes down to how you're presenting your coaster count. Is it simply a record for you to keep personally, or is it something you show off (maybe in your sig) to give people an idea of the kind of roller coaster riding powerhouse you are, and how much people should respect your opinion?

See that's the thing.. we are using it to count, not to slap our savvy coaster cocks on the table and see who is longer. Anyone who does that is a douche, unless it is funny/makes your friend envious for 10 seconds (I'VE BEEN ON BOULDER DASH TAYLOR!! ).

Fact is, X1 is X1 and will always be X1. You move X1, it is still the original unless something drastic has changed. X1 and X2 are separate, regardless if they are the same or not. Hence I will only have one phone, even if I throw it across the room and it lands in paint.. I will still own one phone. If I have my phone and my girlfriends phone, and they are the same, I will have TWO, count em, TWO phones.

 

[madhjsp]

I'va already stated my position on this, that it shouldn't be counted as a new credit. But the fact that this debate is ongoing has got me thinking, what about a ride like Phantom's Revenge?

The ride experience is completely different from the old Steel Phantom. It wasn't just a simple re-tracking or a re-theming, entire track elements were replaced and the ride was transformed from a looper to a hyper. So I'd think that anyone would agree to count it as two separate credits. However, because it's in the same physical location and it does in fact retain specific elements and physical track segments of the old ride, it seemlingly violates some of the logic that's been used in this thread against counting Green Lantern as a new credit, such as Hixee's idea that if it can't be ridden simultaneously by two separate people in separate locations, it can't be two credits. Or the car analogy, which would be akin to heavily modifying a small pickup truck like a Chevy S10 into a supercharged low-riding street racer: Totally different experience, but still the same chassis, same car.

Granted, that's a rather unique case, but I guess I'm sort of agreeing with furie here in playing devil's advocate. The point is, it's hard to go by a set of all-encompassing and universally defined rules for establishing what does and does not count as a credit. In many cases, you could logically rationalize either point of view. It really boils down to your personal preferences and how you view your coaster count.

 

[Hixee]

There was bound to be a flaw with my logic. I think with rides like Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge it's a case of using a bit of common sense. They might was well be completely unique credits and that one was simply taken out for the other one to be put in. I see them as no different to Corkscrew and Thirteen.

There are bound to be exceptions like that, but with a sprinkle of common sense they can be overcome fairly easily.

Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge - 2 credits
Chang/Green Lantern - 1 credit

 

[Ian]

If you want to count it as a new credit, then count it.

I counted it when I rode it as Chang at SFKK. When I visit SFGAd, if I can tick it on coastercounter.com then I'll count Green Lantern as well.

*shrug*

 

[furie]

See that's the thing.. we are using it to count, not to slap our savvy coaster cocks on the table and see who is longer.

I've been to a few coaster opening days now... I've seen a lot of huge cocks...

Granted, that's a rather unique case, but I guess I'm sort of agreeing with furie here in playing devil's advocate.

Hey! I'm not playing devil's advocate (yellowy disgusting drink that it is), I'm just seeing if I can wind anyone up enough to make a long post reply. Personally, I really don't give a stuff and would actually (genuinely) lean towards Ian's Coaster Counter method. I just like to pretend to take the moral high ground and see if I can get anyone to bite :lol:

 

[Coastermaniac94]

why is everyone such a creditwhore....... tbh its doesnt really matter that much but at leats its amusing :L

 

[Ben]

^Not to sound like a dick, but, most people with low counts are like "OMG, why does it matter, who cares?", then they get to like, 100, and all of a sudden it's "OMG COUNT... CREDS! <3"

 

[Snoo]

^That.

There was bound to be a flaw with my logic. I think with rides like Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge it's a case of using a bit of common sense. They might was well be completely unique credits and that one was simply taken out for the other one to be put in. I see them as no different to Corkscrew and Thirteen.

There are bound to be exceptions like that, but with a sprinkle of common sense they can be overcome fairly easily.

Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge - 2 credits
Chang/Green Lantern - 1 credit

^And That.

That's where the line gets foggy and everyone should think whatever they want. THAT much change warrants a new credit. New trains or a retrack? Shut up.

 

[madhjsp]

Granted, that's a rather unique case, but I guess I'm sort of agreeing with furie here in playing devil's advocate.

Hey! I'm not playing devil's advocate (yellowy disgusting drink that it is), I'm just seeing if I can wind anyone up enough to make a long post reply... I just like to pretend to take the moral high ground and see if I can get anyone to bite :lol:

Meh, that's pretty much the same thing

 

[Inverse]

So far I've not come accross this problem in my own count, but it's still quite low. I use RCDB to tell me what is and what isn't a coaster, but it doesn't help with the relocation problems. I think each one will have to be judged differently as I do believe scenery makes a big difference to rides. Clones are most definatly two counts.

It's very difficult to truely compare coaster counts when everyone is measuring to a different standard... if we're going to persist with the manhood metaphore; it's like one guy counting in inches and the next centimetres.

I've actually gone the opposite way to what Ben suggested above, since hitting 90ish I've stopped any desperation I had to get new creds. I still look for new rides to go to but I think I've realised that I'm not actually going to get anywhere counting up Go Gators, and I'm certainly unlikely to hit the dizzy heights off 300+ for a very long time! Sorta realsied there's nothing to compete for.

 

[s15c]

I would count it as a new cred IF it is rethemed. If you take a Vekoma boomerang, plop it somewhere else with the same name, same paint, and no new theme, it's still the same crappy Vekoma Boomerang.

Now, if you take the same Vekoma Boomerang, take it somewhere else, put a fog tunnel on the lift hill, a stone arch on the section in the center of the cobra roll-esque thing, a flame wheel in the center of the loop, and then a godzilla statue perched atop the rollback point (all of which would be a horrid idea), you're riding a new experience in a new place, it's a new cred.

Retheming doesn't work as a new cred because it's the same park and it well just doesn't. I don't exactly have a solid argument, it's just how I feel it is.

 

[Snoo]

^That was incredibly hypocritical. One is a new cred and the other isn't just because it hasn't moved? That is simply stupid.. being blunt about it.

Theme is another trick subject.. as that LITTLE theming wouldn't do squat for the ride experience. That's like adding a fence next to a ride in RCT3 and saying it adds to the experience.. when in reality.. it really doesn't. Now, when something like Expedition Everest goes from just plain track to how it is now? THAT is a brand new experience.