SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Sorry, I thought we were talking about argument theory, not maths?TTDfan52 said:
Though, What I should have said was "if a, then b. does not equal if b, then a". So I'll let you off.
Gay Parenting
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
Though, What I should have said was "if a, then b. does not equal if b, then a". So I'll let you off.
Karen
Hyper Poster
Aslong as the child comes from a loving family does it matter what the family consists of?
I agree that some/alot of society disagree and this can cause trouble in day to day life especially at school but at the end of the day if you are going to be picked on (for whatever reason) it's going to happen. Aidan gets picked on for acting his age and being kind as alot of the boys in his school are chavy and think they are nearer 13 not 8!
As for parents being gay so will the children, yes there is probably more chance as they are more open minded to the idea but does that matter? I think gay parents would be more open minded if their child came out saying they were straight. They used to say that if the parents were smokers so would the children. Well neither my parents smoke but both myself and my brother do. And I know many that do NOT smoke as they saw how it effected their parents that did.
Life is always changing, it's up to the individual people if they want to except that or fight it.
I agree that some/alot of society disagree and this can cause trouble in day to day life especially at school but at the end of the day if you are going to be picked on (for whatever reason) it's going to happen. Aidan gets picked on for acting his age and being kind as alot of the boys in his school are chavy and think they are nearer 13 not 8!
As for parents being gay so will the children, yes there is probably more chance as they are more open minded to the idea but does that matter? I think gay parents would be more open minded if their child came out saying they were straight. They used to say that if the parents were smokers so would the children. Well neither my parents smoke but both myself and my brother do. And I know many that do NOT smoke as they saw how it effected their parents that did.
Life is always changing, it's up to the individual people if they want to except that or fight it.
Joey said:
While I don't agree with the content, I agree with Intick's sentiment.
I can't see how gay parents can possibly mean it's more likely that children will grow up gay, unless you have references Joey that sexuality is due to nurture, rather than nature? Paedophiles are that way because they grew up surrounded by children. Will was brought up in a shoe shop. George Michael's father was a sausage maker.
Yes, if you are exposed to a thing, and it's treated as "acceptable", then you are more likely to be attracted to that side of things. However, as much as I have fond memories of weekends away attending bus rallies and crown green bowling events with my dad, I have no love for either things. Yet my attraction to roller coasters and theme parks was absolutely the result of my exposure to them as a youngster.
If I'd had exposure to neither, I'd still have no desire to attend bus rallies or play crown green bowls, but I would still love coasters and theme parks (though perhaps not to such a degree). My personal tastes, my likes and dislikes are purely a part of the biological make-up of my brain and glands. My upbringing had no affect on my sexual desires, and to say it does I think is naive and I'd have thought with your interest in the complexities of the human brain Joey, you'd have thought the same. It's all just biology. We can no more be persuaded in our sexuality than we can the number of fingers we have. Or our liking of chocolate ice-cream over vanilla.
To the topic :lol:
The world is certainly changing, and it's now much more acceptable to be gay. When I was growing up, you got beaten up for being different in any way. Usually for being coloured (racism died when in the UK? certainly later than the 1980s), or having just one parent, or supporting the wrong football team, or for being gay. To be honest, it didn't really matter the reason. If you're going to be the target for bullies, you're going to be the target. Any "reason" given is just made up as an excuse. Now, you may think it's worse to be in a situation that encourages that, but I really don't think so. We're a more accepting society now, and the 4.4 family unit is utterly broken. Nobody has a "normal" home now as was accepted even 10-20 years ago.
As long as adults can be accepting of the relationship between a same sex couple, the kids will be too. Actually, going back to my tirade against Joey :lol:
I've known women who spend a lot of time together, single mums helping each other out with child care etc. The kids don't think "my mum and her friend are gay". They just see it as "big people doing grown up things like cooking, cleaning and shouting at me for hitting little Bobby". Kids don't see sexualisation in their parents, they just see authority/nurturers. My kids don't know how sexually active me and madame_Furie are or not, because we don't parade our sexual natures in front of the kids. They saw more affection between me and Jerry (I gave him a hug hello and goodbye) than they ever see between me and madame_furie. That's not to say we aren't affectionate, but we keep it to ourselves, it's a private thing. We're very affectionate to the children though, which is the important thing, kids need reassurance and affection and they get it in abundance. Sorry...
The only way kids will know their parents are "gay" would hopefully be because they're told by them, or a grown up parent of the child's friend tells them (or the "friend"). That would only be done through family understanding, or maliciousness. Either way, it'll all come out in the wash.
Obviously, the core is "as long as the child/ren are loved and cared for, it really doesn't matter". I can't see any reason why a gay couple couldn't go through exactly the same adoption checks as a straight couple to adopt a child. As long as they are physically, mentally and financially stable enough and can provide a good home, then fine.
The stupid thing? While it may be abhorrent to the person involved, a lesbian woman could find a willing sperm donor in town on any weekend night and they'd never know they'd given a "naturally achieved" child to a lesbian couple. Likewise, I'm sure that a gay man could find somebody who would be willing to be surrogate mother. In fact, I'll bet there are actually a number of kids out there who have ended up with a gay father leaving to be part of a gay couple, and the mother has allowed access as she would if he had left to another woman.
It seems stupid to me that there's resentment towards this kind of thing happening, yet for a straight woman to constantly be dropping out the babies of strangers into a single parent household is deemed as "perfectly normal".
Joey, just... no. Shush.
A accepting household will encourage the child to have a successful and less stressful coming out, but, it won't turn the child into a fudge packer. Sure, people who come out easily have the more accepting families whilst those who drag their feet, lie to themeselves and generally screw it all up are those with parents who wouldn't like it (even when they've been six feet under for years...), that doesn't mean the first group are gay because of their parents allowing it or you wouldn't get the second group of people. The most messed up gays come from the gash parents, doesn't make them less of a gay.
Out of all the literal billions of bents I know, ONE has a gay parent. A lonely, pathetic one. And Hell, his dad didn't begin munching cock until the child was 17, how would that effect him?
Gay parenting is awesome, when I'm old enough and settled for it, I wanna do it. A chance to mould another human being as fabulous as me to bless on the World? It'd be cruel not to!
A accepting household will encourage the child to have a successful and less stressful coming out, but, it won't turn the child into a fudge packer. Sure, people who come out easily have the more accepting families whilst those who drag their feet, lie to themeselves and generally screw it all up are those with parents who wouldn't like it (even when they've been six feet under for years...), that doesn't mean the first group are gay because of their parents allowing it or you wouldn't get the second group of people. The most messed up gays come from the gash parents, doesn't make them less of a gay.
Out of all the literal billions of bents I know, ONE has a gay parent. A lonely, pathetic one. And Hell, his dad didn't begin munching cock until the child was 17, how would that effect him?
Gay parenting is awesome, when I'm old enough and settled for it, I wanna do it. A chance to mould another human being as fabulous as me to bless on the World? It'd be cruel not to!
Mark
Strata Poster
It is ironic, but a weekend with Rob, Lucy and Dhillon (sp?) staying at ours and those old 'I wanna be a Dad' feelings can still be awoken. Don't get me wrong, it is still nothing that will ever be acted upon but there were occasions across the weekend when I thought I could possibly be a dad.
This is due, in part, to how good a kid Dhillon is I think. He was always smiling and happy and in turn you could see the happiness that it gives Lucy (and Rob of course). If he was a little nightmare I doubt I would be so keen. Although, if I were to be a dad they would never get away with being a little **** anyways. I have noticed the same with other CF families (family-furie and karens tribe for instance). When we are all there at a Live and everyone is enjoying themselves with their families and seeing the happiness that children can somehow spread amongst a group. (Eurgh, how sentimental)
It really is a rather messy subject and even now when I think I have settled my mind, I do sometimes wonder. It is just a fleeting thought again so not something that should be acted upon.
Some fantastic contributions to the debate by the way. I can see where Joey is coming from but I do side more so with furie in this instance. Soundly put!
And Ben... a mini-ben running around... I don't think the world could cope!
This is due, in part, to how good a kid Dhillon is I think. He was always smiling and happy and in turn you could see the happiness that it gives Lucy (and Rob of course). If he was a little nightmare I doubt I would be so keen. Although, if I were to be a dad they would never get away with being a little **** anyways. I have noticed the same with other CF families (family-furie and karens tribe for instance). When we are all there at a Live and everyone is enjoying themselves with their families and seeing the happiness that children can somehow spread amongst a group. (Eurgh, how sentimental)
It really is a rather messy subject and even now when I think I have settled my mind, I do sometimes wonder. It is just a fleeting thought again so not something that should be acted upon.
Some fantastic contributions to the debate by the way. I can see where Joey is coming from but I do side more so with furie in this instance. Soundly put!
And Ben... a mini-ben running around... I don't think the world could cope!
Sorry, but no. I think that a child should have a mother and father mainly because it's in the child's best interests.
Don't worry though, this attitude will inevitably die out as society evolves and people like me die. Give it 60-80 years and it'll be perfectly normal for gay couples to adopt.
And Joey is completely correct. People who think the same as me can't explain it. It's just a gut feeling and no reasoning for or against it can change that.
Good luck to any same-sex couples who goes through with it , you're "pioneering" will help shape the future attitude of society.
*shrug*
Don't worry though, this attitude will inevitably die out as society evolves and people like me die. Give it 60-80 years and it'll be perfectly normal for gay couples to adopt.
And Joey is completely correct. People who think the same as me can't explain it. It's just a gut feeling and no reasoning for or against it can change that.
Good luck to any same-sex couples who goes through with it , you're "pioneering" will help shape the future attitude of society.
*shrug*
FaceYourNemesis
Hyper Poster
Joey said:
Whoah, that's bang out of order to insult someone like that, and your "theory" of external factors determining one's sexuality in certain cases is atrocious.
Being gay is NOT a choice, it is something you are born with, and I'm not going to argue about it.
Gay parenting is not something I'm entirely comfortable with. A child needs to grow up in an environment with both a mother and father figure.
Mark
Strata Poster
FaceYourNemesis said:
I agree with your initial post there FYN. Seriously Joey. You comment on someone looking at things too simply black and white, yet here you are and could quite easily have the same charge levied upon you :-(
I also agree that being gay is not a choice. It was NOT a decision I made. However there are some more 'extreme' situations where a choice is involved to a degree.
However, I think I covered the whole 'a child needs to group up with both a mother and father figure' arguement and its flaws in my initial post and also as Ben has pointed out...
Snoo
The Legend
Having a child is the most wonderful thing in the world and I would bless that amazing feeling upon anybody. Seeing my daughter simply sneeze just makes me feel wonderful. While homosexuals can't have a full blood child, taking those children from those retarded drug addicts with no future into a loving family who can provide anything the child needs in his/her life is something I'd fully support tbh.
This.
My parents divorced when I was 2.. and I turned ok.. well relatively ok.
Ben said:
This.
My parents divorced when I was 2.. and I turned ok.. well relatively ok.
Mark
Strata Poster
The question I would ask you guys though... Did your parents who divorced then have another partner who became a more permanent male/female role model in your lives or did your parents raise you as a single parent? I only ask because if your parent went on to raise you on their own that furthers my point that having both a mother and father figure makes little difference.
What is also worth noting is that both of you have a similar situation in terms of upbringing as such, yet one of you is straight and the other is gay. A very broad assumption, but it would suggest that in both your cases, the fact you only had the one parental figure has not had any particular deciding factor in your own sexuality perhaps?
What is also worth noting is that both of you have a similar situation in terms of upbringing as such, yet one of you is straight and the other is gay. A very broad assumption, but it would suggest that in both your cases, the fact you only had the one parental figure has not had any particular deciding factor in your own sexuality perhaps?
Nah, my mum's the most single person ever in the entire history of single people. She's not had a boyfriend in the last 16 years. I mean, she was **** a married man for seven, but, that was secret, so...
It DOES explain where I get my messed up attitude to relationships and total ease to get with someone taken, but, that's about it.
It DOES explain where I get my messed up attitude to relationships and total ease to get with someone taken, but, that's about it.
If number/sexuality of parents had any relation to the sexuality of children, then there wouldn't have been any gay children born for thousands of years, including right up until now. There are millions of single mothers out there producing both gay and straight children - at the same ratio as heterosexual couples (including those together and divorced).
It makes zero difference to sexuality, but parents WILL make a difference sexual attitude (uptight, loose, closet, open, etc). A bi-sexual or curious child may be more likely to end up in a same sex relationship if their parents are more open about same sex relationships, but a straight child will always be straight and a gay child will always be gay. Really, it just has zero to do with parental contribution.
It makes zero difference to sexuality, but parents WILL make a difference sexual attitude (uptight, loose, closet, open, etc). A bi-sexual or curious child may be more likely to end up in a same sex relationship if their parents are more open about same sex relationships, but a straight child will always be straight and a gay child will always be gay. Really, it just has zero to do with parental contribution.
Intricks
Strata Poster
Since Ive just been observing this after being called a blatant idiot, i think i shall join back in.
To Joey...dude...shut the **** up. You want to call me idiotic and have a black and white view of everything, when you honestly couldnt accept a horridly written (was distracted by booze, being with my boyfriend and sex with him) different point of view that was better written by furie? Look at the pot calling the kettle black...
My viewpoint on the argument of nature vs nuture for homosexuality is this (and Joey, read my **** words): While I do agree that there is a BIT of the nuture argument in a kid coming out as being gay, it isnt nearly as enough as what you were implying. Yes, having gay parents will increase the chances of said child being more open to experimentation, but that is it. It is up to the child to determine if he wants to enjoy a nice pair of tits in his face, or a hard cock there instead. Also, sorry that I do tend to read everything in Black and White. I personally dont know you, we are on the internet and spotting some form of sarcastic remark or ones own joking personal opinion without any form of note is like going to a random ass beach and trying to spot a **** whale.
To Ben, Id imagine a more Kurt-esque kid from you. Dont get me wrong, as a little tyke, that would totally be him, but a teenager would be more or less Kurt like, with some "Heathers" snappiness added in with a possible Nina Flowers sense of fashion for clothing :3
^ Idk, i think the internet borked you up instead :lol:
Switching between the hideouts'...
To Joey...dude...shut the **** up. You want to call me idiotic and have a black and white view of everything, when you honestly couldnt accept a horridly written (was distracted by booze, being with my boyfriend and sex with him) different point of view that was better written by furie? Look at the pot calling the kettle black...
My viewpoint on the argument of nature vs nuture for homosexuality is this (and Joey, read my **** words): While I do agree that there is a BIT of the nuture argument in a kid coming out as being gay, it isnt nearly as enough as what you were implying. Yes, having gay parents will increase the chances of said child being more open to experimentation, but that is it. It is up to the child to determine if he wants to enjoy a nice pair of tits in his face, or a hard cock there instead. Also, sorry that I do tend to read everything in Black and White. I personally dont know you, we are on the internet and spotting some form of sarcastic remark or ones own joking personal opinion without any form of note is like going to a random ass beach and trying to spot a **** whale.
To Ben, Id imagine a more Kurt-esque kid from you. Dont get me wrong, as a little tyke, that would totally be him, but a teenager would be more or less Kurt like, with some "Heathers" snappiness added in with a possible Nina Flowers sense of fashion for clothing :3
^ Idk, i think the internet borked you up instead :lol:
Switching between the hideouts'...
