Fluch von Novgorod, Eurofighter, Hansa Park

[divvie_dave]

Dunno if this has been posted (So many pages of arguing) , but theres a pov with the "effects" and public around now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CDkXWh1eaY&feature=related

Looks a bit lame :S , would be worth a ride, but it doesnt really do anything for me at least... It just seems so slow around that knot thing, and the lift destroys the rest of the ride.

 

[Tomatron]

For those of you who have been on Mystery Mine, you'll know that it's a pretty average coaster which the theming turns into a great ride. That's how a lot of coasters with great themes work. The Disney mine trains would be rubbish without any fake rocks and waterfalls.

I can't think of many coasters with really great themes and give a really great ride as well (Hulk and Hollywood Dream spring to mind). Just looking at something like Mitch Hawker's coaster poll, I count five coaster in the top 50 which I would say have a really great theme (and four of them would be rubbish without the theming).

I'll pass a proper judgement after I ride it. But the dead stop 3/4 of the way round Florida's Mummy doesn't ruin that ride, the stops before each lift don't ruin Mystery Mine and I honestly don't think the stop before the lift hill will ruin the flow of this ride.

 

[Ben]

lol, that lift hill theming is superb. Who would have thought darkness would be such amazing theming? And what an effect! Darkness! I can't just achieve that by switching my light off or anything.

So, this might have been vastly improved by theming... but, the "theming" is just darkness...

 

[divvie_dave]

But the dead stop 3/4 of the way round Florida's Mummy doesn't ruin that ride

Maybe because the ceiling sets on fire, and that mummy guy comes about and such....... things to keep you entertained... while this just seems to have darkness.

 

[Antinos]

But the dead stop 3/4 of the way round Florida's Mummy doesn't ruin that ride

Maybe because the ceiling sets on fire, and that mummy guy comes about and such....... things to keep you entertained... while this just seems to have darkness.

Since when was the theming done?

 

[Snoo]

^On what?

 

[Ploddish]

Lol at this topic. It's become a big-quote fest again, and comes off as rather abrasive. Calm down everyone!

A few points:

(and I don't know what you've ridden, but 60 mph isn't isn't "high speed")

It would be to the park. I can't see how it can't be to any small to medium park. They're certainly trumpeting as such. I mean, 30 mph is high speed on a bike, but not a car. And in these little cars, it feels bloody fast.

We were in no way expecting a world-beater - what we were expecting was a ride with a substantial layout that would be COMPLEMENTED by its theming. The way it stands, FvN looks like the kind of coaster that really has no substance to its layout, and the ride will be made or broken by its theming. That's just not a formula for success - especially for a ride that's supposed to be marketed in the "thrill" category.

Weeeell, I don't think they ever did say how and/or what the layout would be. Perhaps expectations got the better of a few? And I'd leave it another season before giving definite judgment on theming. Not that I'm suggesting you are. And "thrill" is relative, surely? (Tired argument. Sorry.)

FvN really does NOTHING that hasn't been seen before, and it doesn't do any of it in an especially exciting way. Many of us are disappointed, and I think we have every right to be, given what was promised.

Again, surely it's all a matter of relativity? Other rides have done height, speed and launches before. Perhaps they did it in a more exciting way, but I'm going to have to use the old 'You can't truly say 'till you've tried it'. I feel dirty for using this argument, I have shamed myself.

And on the matter of promises. I can't quite see where you got the promise of greatness from. Perhaps poor wording on their part? It was certainly some spiel they had.

On a more personal note, it looks fine to me. Definitely needs tidying up, but I can see something enjoyable and re-ridable in this. Perhaps I need to get out more.

^On what?

FvN, I presume.

 

[ECG]

I'm with those that are a bit disappointed in this coaster. I was expecting more from all that I've read, but I don't think it will be anywhere near as disappointing as Dark Knight (not that you are saying such UC). Seems like the more a park hypes a new coaster the more disappointed I am after it opens. I hope this won't be the case with Blue Fire, Manta, HRRR & the Bizarros (not new I know, but being hyped none the less). I definitely can't imagine this being the case with Diamondback, Terminator or Prowler.

 

[Emmett]

I still thinks it’s a good addition to Hansa’s line up as they really needed another major coaster alongside their Schwarzkopf looper and it should help attract more crowds to the park.

But from watching the pov, the only section that looked exciting was the launch out of the building and then down the drop. After that it just becomes slightly average and I don’t like the idea of the indoor section with the lift hill. I find the lift hill section on the Eurofighters is the most scary/intimidating section and looking back towards the ground and then look forward once over the top of the hill helps. But doing this indoors I feel takes away from the experience.

 

[Ian]

Regarding lift hills in the middle of rides, watch the POv for Mystery Mine and that's how to do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D42Sc43HCi8 (go to 2:50)

(And the effects are MUCH better in person, with that camera, you can't really see all around so the grandure is lost.)

Again, I've not watched the FvN POV so I have no idea how amazing or crap it is but I will eat a pair of Raybould's boxer shorts if it beats Mystery Mine.

 

[nealbie]

^ Is that it?

That's the "OMFG FANTASTICNESS!" Mystery Mine?

Other than the (I must admit it :lol: ) amazing effects on and around the vertical lift hill and drop, that is pants.

Coasterwise Saw is better than that :roll:

 

[Ian]

That's the point, Shoemaker, the ride itself is pants but coupled with the theme, it's a good ride. Plonk it without the theme and it's meh. That's why these coaster types need decent theme imo and why I've got high hopes for FvN.

 

[nealbie]

Agh, OK, cobbler understands now

 

[jokerman]

I definitely think that FvN looks to be a much better ride than Mystery Mine. I havn't been on it, but all the brakes look like they destroy it. At least the sections are longer on FvN.

 

[marc]

Have to remember as well this coaster has opened without all the theming, that wont be in place until next year.

 

[Ploddish]

I was simply trying to point out a few flaws in your arguments, UC

I don't believe I ever said it wasn't good for the park.

I believe I was stating that I'm personally disappointed with the ride.

I can’t see what relevance this has. I, at no point, alluded to you thinking it was bad for the park? Perhaps I missed it.

As for relativity, who's opinion was I expressing here? Me and the people that agree with me. Seems like we all think it's pretty lame. Relativity is irrelevent. Again, learn to read posts before posting.

I was referring to the fact that I'd count a launch, and a BV drop as "thrill" to at least a few people. Not how your opinion was relative to this. Overall, I would say that other non-enthusiasts would say it was at least somewhat thrilling.

I'm not sure why this is even still an argument at this point - I pointed out why me and a few others are disappointed, and people insist on trying to tell us that those things aren't true...?

Nay, good sir. I wouldn't presume such things. Perhaps some people would (and indeed do) find these elements as dull and tired, but others wouldn't. Unless Hansa is a regular for many enthusiasts?

Now if I wanted to do to you what you're trying to do to me, I'd sit here and say "Well, you're not right, because 'enjoyable' is a relative term."

Except that analogy is fallacious. Enjoyment can vary greatly between people, however thrill, and indeed excitement (whether the cause of the thrill enjoyable or not) tends to be a more visceral and instinctual reaction to being launched, or falling off a BV drop. That's all I meant.

See the issue and fallacy in your argument?

I do from your point of view. Perhaps I should make my intentions clearer next time.

Eh, I feel like I've missed something out, but, that'll do for now.

 

[Slayed]

Slayed, I'd think that for someone who's a mod or admin or whatever it is you do on these boards, you'd actually READ posts.

I'm clever me, I can respond to numbered points without even reading them! Gosh.

I don't believe I had a personal dig in my post either, so please afford me the same level of courtesy.

1. Totally subjective.

Um...duh? I don't think any viewpoint given on this ride by us HASN'T been opinion...

"Too short" by what measure? Only in your opinion, well fine then, it was just a rather bald statement.

2. KK and TTD aren't? (in terms of layout only). FvN's got 8 elements. that's plenty.

KK and TTD launch riders at obscene speeds and heights. FvN...doesn't. And the layout is incredibly bland. Hill, turn, helix, inline...lift...pointless launch...brakes? Did they forget the entire second half of the ride?

So "simplistic" has now become "bland" (and no, they're not synonymous).

As it happens the layout was posted up in this thread months ago, and it's not changed. (I know this because, woo, I read it).

3. More like 3/4, and it's been done on purpose to fit with the theme - I have no problem with it. It's also a world first (hard to claim these days).

You're right, it is about 3/4 of the way through the ride. Of course, this is of little difference, given that the ride is probably 40 seconds long.

Closer to 2 minutes (yeah yeah, that's all lift hill blah). I think that's decent for a launching coaster.

However, the point still stands - the pacing is going to die, and personally, I don't think any amount of theming is going to salvage the fact that this thing is going to last about 40 seconds.

Closer to 2 minutes. You could be right otherwise, but I'll reserve opinion until I'm up close and personal. The exterior theming is clearly VERY good.

4. What???

There's nothing interesting. You aren't getting any nifty inversions. You're getting a hill, a large swoopy turn, and a Magnum XL-200 turnaround. So exciting!

Thanks for the clarification.

For me, the high speed turns look great. The launches look great. The airtime hill looks great. I'm liking it.

5. Surely the bigger thrills are indoors.

Haha, what? The indoors section is a lift hill, a couple of turns, and a brake run. The outdoors section - you know, the launch to the outdoors and the "HILL AND TURN AND KNOT AND INLINE OMG!" everyone is creaming about? Is outdoors. It lasts about ten seconds.

The indoors features a station dropout, both launches, an overbank, BV drop and FX. I'd say them's the thrills right there, no?

"Everyone" is hardly creaming over the outdoor section.

6. MEANDER?! I don't call a BV drop into an overbank and launching into a brake run at 100 km/h meandering!

Haha. You mean apart from the fact the ride does basically nothing after the drop? Oh! An overbank! You mean...the things that Gerstlauer trains crawl over..and a launch! Sweet! Except...oh. Now it's brake time.

And your proof that THIS coaster crawls over that overbank is?

Leave it up to FvN to launch a ride in to the brake run...haha. So lame. At least Intamin had the courtesy to launch its simple rides in to a large element at high speeds first (and I don't know what you've ridden, but 60 mph isn't "high speed").

FvN launches twice. That final launch into the brake run is an unusual choice, but it's "lameness" will be determined by riding it.

60mph isn't, in any definition of the word, "meandering".

I really don't know what you all expected from this ride - some world-conquering behemoth apparently.

I love how you exaggerate the way people felt about this ride to support what is otherwise (and still is) a poor argument.

We were in no way expecting a world-beater - what we were expecting was a ride with a substantial layout that would be COMPLEMENTED by its theming.

As I've said, the layout was available ages ago in this topic. If the reality hasn't met your expectations, then your expectations weren't based on the facts.

FvN really does NOTHING that hasn't been seen before

Apart from the first ever launch and lift. Has a launch off an overbank into a brake run happened before?

and it doesn't do any of it in an especially exciting way. Many of us are disappointed, and I think we have every right to be, given what was promised.

Which is the crux of my response. Hansa have delivered everything that was promised! If you don't like it, you can't blame them.

And if I may:-

That's actually really cool...I love the look of this coaster...

That inclined pretzel thing looks interesting, but I think my favorite part is the highly banked dive...

What changed your mind?

 

[Ploddish]

UC, do you read what I type? Have I gone completely mad?

Was there anything to rebut in your post? You seem to get the impression I'm attacking you, when I have said time and again it's not about your opinion. I'm trying to say that while you might not find it brilliant, others might?

I merely referred to a few problems I had with what (I at least thought) you were attempting to say. I feel I may have overstepped a line somewhere.

You did, at some point between my original post, and your last one, appear to switch from what we and us were talking about, to one of me and my on the subject of opinion. Unless that was me seeing things. Again.

feel sudden intense sensation or emotion; "he was thrilled by the speed and the roar of the engine"

It says nothing about positive or negative emotion. Just emotion. You can't tell me your mother feels nothing during inversions? Thrill can be a negative sensation. But that's what it is. A sensation. A reaction to something occurring.

I've been attempting to tackle the matter as objectively as I could, but the argument always comes back as subjective when you rebut.

Or perhaps you should just try not to disprove my viewpoint on something by trying to generalize it by the masses? Or perhaps you should read posts and understand what someone is trying to say before responding to it?

I'm noticing a striking literacy inability in this topic. All seemingly arising from how people "read" (if they do, of course) posts by yourself.

And the point seems to shift with every post. It's pretty hard to hold it down and debate about it sensibly. Perhaps a summary of our points would help?

 

[marc]

Guys I think we need to remember that people from Hansa Park might read this topic seeing as CF has a link on their site.

 

[Ploddish]

I see what happened here. I was was originally responding to what everyone would see from the ride, and you were backing up the enthusiast side (via your own opinion.) I see where the problem lay in that we were both coming from different directions when thinking (or at least I was) we were both going in the same, which is what sparked the original post, and the subsequent debate. I wasn't trying to attempt to stop you from being disappointed. That would be silly

I didn't read it as your opinion, so I can't see how you can say I'm "disappointed" with it, but this is where the problem lies. I'm not annoyed at all, I just like to debate

That's all I it (or I think) it was.

Oops?