ATTACKHAMMER
Strata Poster
Martyn B said:
I think you do :--D I love the place :--D
FORUMS - COASTERFORCE
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Europa Park: future discussion
- Thread starter STC
- Start date
I think you do :--D I love the place :--D
STC
Mega Poster
Anyway, making a vague attempt to wander back on topic...
An interview has just been released with Michael Mack and business leader of Mack Rides Christian von Elverfeldt. It's in German, but a German member of TowersStreet DragonMarty has very kindly translated it. Here's part 1, with part 2 and 3 translations to follow soon:
The Looping Tales
Michael Mack, associate of Mack Rides GmbH & Co. KG, and CEO Christian von Elverfeldt
"OK, then just built it!", said Europa-Park's managing director Roland Mack to Michael Mack and Christian von Elverfeldt. The roller coaster "Blue Fire" was born and was a milestone in the history of the family owned business from Waldkirch. In an interview with Iunia Mihu and Bjorn Lange revealed both of them, why it is allowed to be a bit rude and how Europa Park will look like in 2030.
Inside B: Mr. Mack, Mr. Elverfeldt, the summer Olympics in London are starting soon. For the winter games in Sochi in 2014 you are rebuilding the looping roller coaster "Blue Fire" there. Is Russia a new territory for Mack Rides?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Sochi will be our initial project in Russia and we hope for follow-up orders to open this market for us.
Michael Mack: There are amusement parks from the Soviet era, but they are still not modern. Such a modern park will now be built. "Blue Fire" will be the most beautiful and most modern ride in that country.
Inside B: What are the other emerging markets?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Clearly at the moment China. You have to be there. But we are a little bit afraid of China. The Chinese are trying to copy our attractions. But they still can not do it.
Inside B: In addition to Sochi - what projects are ongoing?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Lots. The existing parks must constantly improve to keep their attractiveness on a high level. Our clients are spread all over the world. America is very strong and even Europe. With Australia, I have just negotiated a water roller coaster for next year. And we recently delivered a ride to Sicily in the water park "Etnaland".
Inside B: At the official opening of the wooden roller coaster "Wodan" in Europa-Park, you said: Mack Rides is busy for the next two years. Is that true?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Of course I don't like to hear that. We are in great demand, that's true. We are already working on projects that are starting in 2014.
Inside B: There will be no short-time work at Mack Rides in the next two years?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Certainly not!
Inside B: Your Exports accounting for around 95 percent. The "Blue Fire" is one of your export hits and as is also an important chapter in the history of the company Mack Rides. With this you improved also in the field of coaster-track-technology. Previously, it was mostly water rides.
Christian von Elverfeldt: In the field of water attractions we are the marked leader. But only to stay with that would be the wrong way. We must stay innovative all along the line and have to offer everything from small flat rides, big roller coasters up to water attractions. In 2007 for example, we installed an interactive boat ride at Europa-Park (Whale Adventures). This attraction type is an export hit, especially in warmer countries. We will build another ride for Europa-Park until 2014, that will be an innovation too.
Inside B: Please tell me more of that.
Christian von Elverfeldt: I am not allowed to do that.
Inside B: So can you tell us, how the "Blue Fire" was developed? There are so beautiful creation stories.
Michael Mack: What stories do you know?
Inside B: The Christmas Story.
Christian von Elverfeldt: Yes, this really is a Christmas story. That was on Christmas 2007 in Waldkirch. Both partners were there, Roland Mack as well as Jürgen Mack. We all retired to a conference room and Michael Mack and I have pushed and pushed. Then they said: OK, then just built it! At the opening ceremony in 2009, Roland Mack said: To build "Blue Fire" with Mack Rides, was the biggest challenge in our business. Because if it had gone wrong we would not be able to sue our own company. But it did not go wrong. Michael Mack has helped very much so that we got the chance at all to build "Blue Fire".
Inside B: And how did you manage to convince your family, Mr. Mack?
Michael Mack: I did definitely not go to my father to say: I have a great idea and now I will do that! This was a long and difficult process. Because of my many years of presence in Waldkirch, my family surely thought: Michael is on site, we have confidence in him and he has confidence in his people. It also was not like that Mr. Elverfeldt and I have leaded one year Mack Rides and suddenly wanted to build "Blue Fire". Before that, there was the whole technical development with a changeover of the production process. We have developed quieter and more comfortable track rails. This has ultimately convinced the family and showed us that we can it still better. "Blue Fire" is a milestone for us - for me and the Mr. von Elverfeldt, but also for the entire family Mack and the Europa-Park. For me it is also a personal milestone, as on "Blue Fire" I proposed marriage to my wife.
So it sounds like Europa will also be getting a new Mack water ride for 2014, along with this dark ride. Unless that's been lost in translation and he's simply referring to the dark ride we already know about. Possibly the new water ride was already planned for 2014 before the dark ride got bumped up from 2013?
An interview has just been released with Michael Mack and business leader of Mack Rides Christian von Elverfeldt. It's in German, but a German member of TowersStreet DragonMarty has very kindly translated it. Here's part 1, with part 2 and 3 translations to follow soon:
The Looping Tales
Michael Mack, associate of Mack Rides GmbH & Co. KG, and CEO Christian von Elverfeldt
"OK, then just built it!", said Europa-Park's managing director Roland Mack to Michael Mack and Christian von Elverfeldt. The roller coaster "Blue Fire" was born and was a milestone in the history of the family owned business from Waldkirch. In an interview with Iunia Mihu and Bjorn Lange revealed both of them, why it is allowed to be a bit rude and how Europa Park will look like in 2030.
Inside B: Mr. Mack, Mr. Elverfeldt, the summer Olympics in London are starting soon. For the winter games in Sochi in 2014 you are rebuilding the looping roller coaster "Blue Fire" there. Is Russia a new territory for Mack Rides?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Sochi will be our initial project in Russia and we hope for follow-up orders to open this market for us.
Michael Mack: There are amusement parks from the Soviet era, but they are still not modern. Such a modern park will now be built. "Blue Fire" will be the most beautiful and most modern ride in that country.
Inside B: What are the other emerging markets?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Clearly at the moment China. You have to be there. But we are a little bit afraid of China. The Chinese are trying to copy our attractions. But they still can not do it.
Inside B: In addition to Sochi - what projects are ongoing?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Lots. The existing parks must constantly improve to keep their attractiveness on a high level. Our clients are spread all over the world. America is very strong and even Europe. With Australia, I have just negotiated a water roller coaster for next year. And we recently delivered a ride to Sicily in the water park "Etnaland".
Inside B: At the official opening of the wooden roller coaster "Wodan" in Europa-Park, you said: Mack Rides is busy for the next two years. Is that true?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Of course I don't like to hear that. We are in great demand, that's true. We are already working on projects that are starting in 2014.
Inside B: There will be no short-time work at Mack Rides in the next two years?
Christian von Elverfeldt: Certainly not!
Inside B: Your Exports accounting for around 95 percent. The "Blue Fire" is one of your export hits and as is also an important chapter in the history of the company Mack Rides. With this you improved also in the field of coaster-track-technology. Previously, it was mostly water rides.
Christian von Elverfeldt: In the field of water attractions we are the marked leader. But only to stay with that would be the wrong way. We must stay innovative all along the line and have to offer everything from small flat rides, big roller coasters up to water attractions. In 2007 for example, we installed an interactive boat ride at Europa-Park (Whale Adventures). This attraction type is an export hit, especially in warmer countries. We will build another ride for Europa-Park until 2014, that will be an innovation too.
Inside B: Please tell me more of that.
Christian von Elverfeldt: I am not allowed to do that.
Inside B: So can you tell us, how the "Blue Fire" was developed? There are so beautiful creation stories.
Michael Mack: What stories do you know?
Inside B: The Christmas Story.
Christian von Elverfeldt: Yes, this really is a Christmas story. That was on Christmas 2007 in Waldkirch. Both partners were there, Roland Mack as well as Jürgen Mack. We all retired to a conference room and Michael Mack and I have pushed and pushed. Then they said: OK, then just built it! At the opening ceremony in 2009, Roland Mack said: To build "Blue Fire" with Mack Rides, was the biggest challenge in our business. Because if it had gone wrong we would not be able to sue our own company. But it did not go wrong. Michael Mack has helped very much so that we got the chance at all to build "Blue Fire".
Inside B: And how did you manage to convince your family, Mr. Mack?
Michael Mack: I did definitely not go to my father to say: I have a great idea and now I will do that! This was a long and difficult process. Because of my many years of presence in Waldkirch, my family surely thought: Michael is on site, we have confidence in him and he has confidence in his people. It also was not like that Mr. Elverfeldt and I have leaded one year Mack Rides and suddenly wanted to build "Blue Fire". Before that, there was the whole technical development with a changeover of the production process. We have developed quieter and more comfortable track rails. This has ultimately convinced the family and showed us that we can it still better. "Blue Fire" is a milestone for us - for me and the Mr. von Elverfeldt, but also for the entire family Mack and the Europa-Park. For me it is also a personal milestone, as on "Blue Fire" I proposed marriage to my wife.
So it sounds like Europa will also be getting a new Mack water ride for 2014, along with this dark ride. Unless that's been lost in translation and he's simply referring to the dark ride we already know about. Possibly the new water ride was already planned for 2014 before the dark ride got bumped up from 2013?
Gazza
Giga Poster
I had no idea about the water coaster for Australia!
Have you got a link to the article?
Edit: Found it http://www.insideb.de/upload/Files/054_055_IB_0712.pdf
Have you got a link to the article?
Edit: Found it http://www.insideb.de/upload/Files/054_055_IB_0712.pdf
STC
Mega Poster
Gazza said:
Good spot, didn't even notice that! Wonder where it's for? Australia have a bit of a dearth of decent coasters at the moment.
Part 2 here: http://www.insideb.de/upload/Files/056_057_IB_0712.pdf
Part 3 here: http://www.insideb.de/upload/Files/058_059_IB_0712.pdf
According to my friend who's done a rough translation, parts 2 and 3 don't contain many concrete details. But Michael Mack talks about how they're considering building an entertainment area with bars and restaurants, Downtown Disney-style, as well as a new log cabin resort area, which he compared to Centre Parcs. This will presumably be either an expansion of Tipidorf or a new bigger accommodation area entirely. Just vague plans at the moment though.
I found Europa Park to be a really odd place. It has (for me) two excellent rides (not quite world's best, but still very good) and a huge amount of mediocrity. Part of it is that it's not quite settled as what park it is. It's a family park, but the "sub ten year old" element is very poor and the "over ten" element is just satisfactory (Wodan, the Euros, Blue Fire) and the "adult thrill" is really just Euro Sat, Blue Fire and Silver Star.
It never really excels in one area. The park is pleasant, but it's so crowded and maze-like, and where it isn't, it's concrete and unpleasant. It just never quite gets it right.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great park, but I could never convince family_furie to go there over Disney - simply because Disney does the "sub ten" thing immaculately, even DLP. It's what the parks are designed for and nobody does it better. They have concessions for "thrill" with RnR, Space Mountain et al, but they're still in that Disney ideal of form over function. It's the way Disney will always build but they get it right.
As for the future of EP, I can see a lot of development heading that way and it's certainly one to watch. As you say Sam, there's almost unlimited expansion so a mass of possibilities.
It never really excels in one area. The park is pleasant, but it's so crowded and maze-like, and where it isn't, it's concrete and unpleasant. It just never quite gets it right.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great park, but I could never convince family_furie to go there over Disney - simply because Disney does the "sub ten" thing immaculately, even DLP. It's what the parks are designed for and nobody does it better. They have concessions for "thrill" with RnR, Space Mountain et al, but they're still in that Disney ideal of form over function. It's the way Disney will always build but they get it right.
As for the future of EP, I can see a lot of development heading that way and it's certainly one to watch. As you say Sam, there's almost unlimited expansion so a mass of possibilities.
caffeine_demon
Strata Poster
I'd really like to see a good "tower" ride at EP - I think they're one of the few places who could build a really great TOT competitor
STC
Mega Poster
Fair points Furie!
I think the park know that dark rides, although they have a lot of them, are their weak point at the moment. I say 'weak point', I mean, they're still better than 99% of other parks around. But I think that they know it's the one thing they can't really compete with Disney on. This new 2014 dark ride should go a long way to changing that. It'll be the most 'major' dark ride they've ever done, and the most expensive. I'm really hoping for Disney standards of quality. I think they experimented a bit with Blue Fire's dark ride section to see how it would work. Unfortunately, their animatronics just aren't anywhere near as good as Disney's, and that's something they really need to work on.
I think the park know that dark rides, although they have a lot of them, are their weak point at the moment. I say 'weak point', I mean, they're still better than 99% of other parks around. But I think that they know it's the one thing they can't really compete with Disney on. This new 2014 dark ride should go a long way to changing that. It'll be the most 'major' dark ride they've ever done, and the most expensive. I'm really hoping for Disney standards of quality. I think they experimented a bit with Blue Fire's dark ride section to see how it would work. Unfortunately, their animatronics just aren't anywhere near as good as Disney's, and that's something they really need to work on.
The park don't really have any interest in major headline flat rides because they're usually so low throughput. Europa's main guiding rule is throughputs, and flat rides simply can't offer acceptable enough capacity for the park. They really go out of their way to get those throughputs as well (5 trains on Blue Fire, no seatbelts on Silver Star, Wodan being the only GCI with no seatbelts and three trains) so I can't see them throwing that away by building a major thrill flat. I don't think they really need it - when you have such a great selection of coasters, do you really need major flats? Disney don't bother..._koppen said:
Yes, pretty much every Europa fan expected them to be getting a drop tower for 2012, before they shocked us with announcing Wodan. I think a tower ride probably will come, but I don't think it will be a simple out-and-out thrill tower, like Scream or Apocalypse. It's just not their style. If they do it, I think it'd be a well-themed family-thrill drop tower like Mystery Castle and TOT. But I don't think it'll happen for a few years (2016 at the earliest), if at all. Also, another problem is that Mystery Castle up the road is such an insanely incredible ride, it'd be hard to compete! I don't think they'd do it until they can think up something to at least match the quality of Myster and TOT.caffeine_demon said:
Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
Silver Star doesn't have seatbelts because NONE of the B&M Hyper Clam restraints have seatbelts...
Tbh, what the park DOES need to do is improve public transport access from the 'nearby' big airports... Whether it be adding a new train station where you can get to easily from another major German/French/Swiss station... I dunno...
CityWalk thing as well might be good, especially if Rust doesn't have much to do (not 100% sure HOW much like Alton village that place is like)...
I need to revisit the park for opinions on that really... I remember it being good and the queues done well (i.e. THROUGHPUTS GOOD) although some of it was delightfully old school... But again, need a revisit to cement opinions...
Tbh, what the park DOES need to do is improve public transport access from the 'nearby' big airports... Whether it be adding a new train station where you can get to easily from another major German/French/Swiss station... I dunno...
CityWalk thing as well might be good, especially if Rust doesn't have much to do (not 100% sure HOW much like Alton village that place is like)...
I need to revisit the park for opinions on that really... I remember it being good and the queues done well (i.e. THROUGHPUTS GOOD) although some of it was delightfully old school... But again, need a revisit to cement opinions...
STC
Mega Poster
Ooops, sorry, you're right - my mistake. What I meant to say is the restraints aren't manually checked - it has a little red light on each seat that turns green once the restraint is satisfactorily down and the staff just glance at that. I believe that's unique.Nemesis Inferno said:
Completely agree. While it's nearby some major cities and airports (Strasbourg, Freiburg), the transport on the last leg of the journey if you're not in a car is poor. I'd say it needs nothing less than a direct rail link to Strasbourg and Basel airport, as well as a connection to the wider German network at Ringsheim.Nemesis Inferno said:
Rust isn't particularly thrilling, but it isn't as bad as Alton village. There are a lot of guest-houses, the residents are very supportive of the park, and there's a few nice restaurants. But I imagine the main thing stopping them building a CityWalk style area is that they already have loads of really great and popular bars and restaurants in the five hotels. I think they'd do it mostly to get day visitors to stay longer and eat their evening meal at the resort, rather than aiming it at hotel guests.Nemesis Inferno said:
