What actually is the difference between a ride stop and emergency stop button, particularly on beemers? Emergency stops cut electrical power to the mechanical parts of a ride, yes, but they're not a total electrical isolator. Ride stops also stop mechanical parts moving, but isn't that... cutting electrical power to the mechanical parts of a ride? What actually is the electrical difference between the two?
Difference between Ride Stop and Emergency Stop
- Thread starter Dan?
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- electrics mechanics operations
Dar
Hyper Poster
I think a ride stop is more of a "at the next convenient moment, stop running." and an emergency stop is "STOP RUNNING NOW."
So a ride stop would be trains gently stopping at the next block brake. Like when trains are stopped in the station because someone needs help getting on or something, and the following trains slowly start stacking up until the one on the lift stops just short of the crest (on a B&M). A ride stop should be a predictable, reliable state that is programmed into the logic of the ride.
And an emergency stop is all brakes moving to closed, and all moving parts are stopped immediately. So a train on the lift would be stopped where it is at the moment the button is pressed. An e-stop is a random state that the system needs a moment to recover from. It will know which sensor each train last passed, and which sensors are currently active, but it won't know if those trains are still near those sensors or if it's the same train that's activating the sensor.
Electrically, a ride stop isn't so much cutting power to the mechanical parts, it's more turning appropriate parts on or off to maintain the known state. An e-stop isn't an isolator, but they do usually cut the power totally to the ride.
...maybe?
So a ride stop would be trains gently stopping at the next block brake. Like when trains are stopped in the station because someone needs help getting on or something, and the following trains slowly start stacking up until the one on the lift stops just short of the crest (on a B&M). A ride stop should be a predictable, reliable state that is programmed into the logic of the ride.
And an emergency stop is all brakes moving to closed, and all moving parts are stopped immediately. So a train on the lift would be stopped where it is at the moment the button is pressed. An e-stop is a random state that the system needs a moment to recover from. It will know which sensor each train last passed, and which sensors are currently active, but it won't know if those trains are still near those sensors or if it's the same train that's activating the sensor.
Electrically, a ride stop isn't so much cutting power to the mechanical parts, it's more turning appropriate parts on or off to maintain the known state. An e-stop isn't an isolator, but they do usually cut the power totally to the ride.
...maybe?
VonRolland
Hyper Poster
On Nemesis Ride Stop & E-Stop performed exactly the same role however a ride stop can be reset by ride staff where as E-Stop needs to be reset by tech.
Both cut power to lift/feeder wheels & cut air pressure to the brakes in turn closing them
Both cut power to lift/feeder wheels & cut air pressure to the brakes in turn closing them
JackFish
Mega Poster
So what would be the benefit of using Estop and not Ride stop? If they do the same things but one takes more work why does the second one exist?
VonRolland
Hyper Poster
I'll use a real life example.
Had an issue with a feeder wheel in transfer (wheel was hanging off), train had only just come through the initial brakes then noticed it so we pressed it before it got to the feeder wheel and could cause damage. This is better than E-Stop because when tech arrived they inspected it & said we could allow the train over it to get guests off if wed of E-Stopped that would have left guests on the train even longer while they reset it where as we restarted it and got the guests off in less than 5 mins total
E-Stop is for life endangering, structural collapse or very serious issues
Ride stop is if you need quickly stop & start it
Are you saying you pressed a Ride Stop when you saw a drive tyre / wheel about to detach...? Fair play for thinking ahead / convenience etc but I would really expect ride ops to be trained to hit E-stop for that kind of thing. You shouldn't need to put much thought into it... you just want the train to stop asap!
To answer the question about the differences, electrically, Ride Stop does, generally, stop motion - yes - but that is NOT the same as cutting power. There could be drives etc (VFD's) with power flowing through and the whole ride would still be under the control of whatever the software (program) is telling it. This is not considered a truly safe state. You can just restart while keeping in 'Auto' mode, which is less safe, operationally too. Better is for techs to switch to 'Maintenance' mode, confirm all ok, then restart.
Upon E-stop, the power is truly removed from all ride equipment. Motors etc go to something called STO (Safe Torque Off) and there's no software signal that can make them move. You can also perform maintenance on the ride in E-stop (you wouldn't dream of it in Ride Stop). In fact, rides are often locked out for maintenance by just pressing the E-Stop, flipping a cover over the button and locking so it can't be released. Having said that, there are in fact different levels of E-stop too. If you wanna go full nerd, you can read about that too... https://www.se.com/eg/en/faqs/FA225420/
Hope that helps!
To answer the question about the differences, electrically, Ride Stop does, generally, stop motion - yes - but that is NOT the same as cutting power. There could be drives etc (VFD's) with power flowing through and the whole ride would still be under the control of whatever the software (program) is telling it. This is not considered a truly safe state. You can just restart while keeping in 'Auto' mode, which is less safe, operationally too. Better is for techs to switch to 'Maintenance' mode, confirm all ok, then restart.
Upon E-stop, the power is truly removed from all ride equipment. Motors etc go to something called STO (Safe Torque Off) and there's no software signal that can make them move. You can also perform maintenance on the ride in E-stop (you wouldn't dream of it in Ride Stop). In fact, rides are often locked out for maintenance by just pressing the E-Stop, flipping a cover over the button and locking so it can't be released. Having said that, there are in fact different levels of E-stop too. If you wanna go full nerd, you can read about that too... https://www.se.com/eg/en/faqs/FA225420/
Hope that helps!
VonRolland
Hyper Poster
On the original Nemesis all stop buttons were ride stops bar one estop in the cabin, my position meant I could see all the way down the brake run & the op could not
That seems to be the total opposite of current design theory! Wonder why that is? Surely you'd want to be able to E-stop if a train moved unexpectedly? Galactica has all E-stops except for two ride stops on the main panel. Wonder what Blivz's setup is.
Side note, do we have a control enthusiasts' thread like TPR?
VonRolland
Hyper Poster
1993 Design theory
Oblivion has essentially the same panel as Nemesis not sure about its E-Stops/Ride Stops thoGal also has 2 Lift stops