Comfortable vs exposed seating?

[andrus]

There have been some discussions lately on the forum regarding the "most comfortable" seating position, where a great majority (including me) have promoted the B&M clamshell design or Mack lapbars. Nothing wrong with that. The comfort of these two seating arrangements is unparalleled!

But then I came thinking of how dull I think most of the B&M hypers are, and why. And that perhaps the raised, laid back, sofa-style seating is too comfortable: perhaps you're feeling too relaxed and protected while riding? In contradiction the more upright and closer to the track seating position of the Intamin hypers (EGF e.g.) feels more exposed and exhilarating!

So, when just talking of which seting arrangement is the most comfortable the answere would still be B&M or Mack. But thinking of my favourite seating arrangement I would probably say the Intamin T-bar design; a perfect blend of an exposed and comfortable ride! The slightly forward tilted Intamin jetski-design is even more exhilarating, and even though a coaster like Juvelen isn't very fast statistically, it has one of the absolute greatest sensations of speed due to the exposed seating (of course in combination with snappy transitions and close interactions with the surrounding terrain).

So what are your thoughts on this? Do you share my view that B&M and Mack might be a bit too comfortable..? And which is your personal favourite seating arrangement?

 

[nealbie]

The restraints on Helix and Blue Fire are perfect. Sooooooo comfy, yet leave you massively exposed in your seat. <3

 

[ThomVD]

^ That!

And I personally feel more exposed on B&M hypers than on Intamin hypers such as EGF, so I prefer that.

 

[zazobo]

I agree with the above, I actually feel REALLY exposed on Mack & B&M lapbar seats. Probably down to the fact that my feet never reach the floor.. on all other coaster types I can get my feet flat on the floor which always makes things feel less intense.

 

[Bat Fastard]

I agree, something about B&M Hypers makes me feel so exposed. Might just be the fact that there is no seatbelt or backup restraint, but that's just me. I prefer exposed seating.

 

[Hyde]

Glad that you drew a distinction between most comfortable and favorite restraints overall andrus.

I agree, the B&M clamshell is one of the most comfortable restraints out there. I also really enjoy the comfortable recline of the B&M wing rider restraints.

However, the B&M clamshell is no longer my favorite, in part due to Cedar Fair installing seatbelts on them across the board. Comfort loses out to loading efficiency in my books, especially as the seat belts have been retrofitted on.

Given this, I circle back around to the Intamin T-Bar being my favorite restraint. It is reasonably comfortable, relatively efficient to load, and puts the rider in a more engaged position than the B&M "lean" position.

 

[GuyWithAStick]

Clamshells are probably my favorite, followed closely by the S&S Lapbars(doing floorless lapbars right). I also quite enjoy the exposure from SkyRush.

 

[MouseAT]

I think the Mack design is probably about as good as you're going to get. Comfortable, a sense of vulnerability, and no obvious down sides. If the ride experience isn't up to scratch, that's a layout issue, not a train or restraint design one.

There's no reason why comfortable, well designed restraints and an exciting ride design have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Great topic!

I've got a similar opinion of coaster comfort overall... I say similar, but you'll probably all read this and go **** Joey. JUST ANOTHER DAY ON COASTERFORCE.

Ok, so, this isn't such a big deal with enthusiasts but I think does still affect us in part... But certainly when it comes to the general public, discomfort can be mistaken for intensity. I think coasters which are a little uncomfortable are, in general, more likely to be exciting experiences. There is a limit though.

I think this is part of the reason why wooden coasters are so popular amongst enthusiasts... On top of the fact that they are usually box tickers for an enthusiast's favourite things like ejector air, they have this enhancement of being imperfect a lot of the time. What some people call "soul".

Saw at Thorpe Park is super well received by the public, but to me it's nearing the unrideable side of the spectrum. I think the sensations it creates speak to the theme, though. And that means it does what guests want it to. It feels like a brutal machine. It's gross poor design mistaken for well designed intensity.

Anyway, as for restraints... The best designed restraint of all time is the B&M otsr. No bull. Freedom but sense of security. Locks in sensible increments. They are perfect to almost every audience. And they're super safe. They're just great.

My preferences though? I don't know. Torn. I'm not usually a complainer of restraints in general, but I like to feel free. Leg braces aren't cool, big foam chest plates aren't cool... Generally stuff that keeps you safe can go away. The S&S screamin' swing lap bar or the bar on Lex Luther would be my restraints of choice... I like to lean forward.

 

[Smithy]

See if you were to model the absolute perfect coaster seat that I wish could be replicated on any coaster, I'd probably pick Shambhala. You're so exposed and yet still feel secure (at least if you're slim like me and the restraint presses into the seat so there's a full circle, so to speak), it's essentially a racing bucket seat.

I'll put Helix's seating up alongside though, first go I was pretty scared just by how utterly exposed you are, how much movement there is and yet how at no point did I ever feel insecure. There's no real major difference between the two for me I just vaguely remember Shambhala's being slightly more snug.

 

[nealbie]

The best designed restraint of all time is the B&M otsr. No bull. Freedom but sense of security. Locks in sensible increments. They are perfect to almost every audience. And they're super safe. They're just great.

Unless you're tall. Then the angle at which they come down at crushes your shoulders and leaves you with an awkwardly enormous gap between the restraint and your chest. It is a design flaw. The coasters state up to 1.95cm can ride (upper limit if there even is one), so the restraints should be built to accommodate this.

 

[Jarrett]

B&M clamshells are good, but just that. Replace them with something a bit edgier and I think it would make their coasters way better. A tiny T-bar and some flat seat bottoms/backs being the only things holding you in on Fury or Behemoth would really improve both rides.

I definitely like to be exposed when riding a speed coaster. That feeling of almost nothing holding you in on Skyrush as the forces try to yank you from your seat and fling you across that pond. <3

 

[zazobo]

See if you were to model the absolute perfect coaster seat that I wish could be replicated on any coaster, I'd probably pick Shambhala. You're so exposed and yet still feel secure (at least if you're slim like me and the restraint presses into the seat so there's a full circle, so to speak), it's essentially a racing bucket seat.

Agree 1000%. I'm little too and get the 'full circle' snugness while also feeling exposed. Magic.

 

[Hyde]

B&M clamshells are good, but just that. Replace them with something a bit edgier and I think it would make their coasters way better. A tiny T-bar and some flat seat bottoms/backs being the only things holding you in on Fury or Behemoth would really improve both rides. That feeling of almost nothing holding you in on Skyrush as the forces try to yank you from your seat and fling you across that pond. <3

Followed by that feeling of almost nothing in your legs as the Skyrush restraints dig into your legs. :wink:

The B&M Clamshell restraints, as I mentioned up top, are designed to not require seatbelts. In very simple terms, but seating riders in a more reclined position, and having a restraint that has a larger area of contact with riders, you are able to safely secure them without the need of a seatbelt.

Adding a seatbelt to this restraint style, as Cedar Fair has, totally undermines the restraint design. So to your point, you could absolutely implement a less-reclined seat with more traditional T-bar. It is just important to also point out why the B&M Clamshell is designed the way it is.

I think this is part of the reason why wooden coasters are so popular amongst enthusiasts... On top of the fact that they are usually box tickers for an enthusiast's favourite things like ejector air, they have this enhancement of being imperfect a lot of the time. What some people call "soul".

I can see your point of how wooden coaster restraints play into their fun, rickety experience. Personally, I do prefer more comfortable wooden coaster restraints, such as the GCI Millennium Flyer to the bench seating of Thunderbolt at Kennywood. I even enjoy the Paramount PTC retrofit that Cedar Fair has adopted across a number of wooden coasters of side-mounted retracting seat belts. There are some modern innovations, such as seat separators, retracting seat belts, and added side padding that do enhance the wooden coaster experience.