Cedar Point | Top Thrill 2 | Triple Launch Renovation | 2024
- Thread starter Wazzupnerds
- Start date
roomraider
Best Topic Starter
On the other hand remember when vekoma pitched for Hyperion and everyone said much the same? Think we can all agree now the modern Vekoma hyper coaster would have been quite something with their new track and Benjamin's designs.
Still it does seem like a risk of quite mammoth proportions. Fingers crossed it works out.
Pendant corner: haven't they constructed 6 thunderbolts? 3 original model (New York, Alabama, Korea) 1 small one in Guatemala and 2 unique ones in China.
Plus 2 more in China under construction at the moment. Still not quite on TTD scale though. Will be interesting how the smaller one in Canada goes.
This remains the biggest thematic convos seem to turn back to; how exactly did Zamperla get the gig?
I still posit the false choice that others have argued on "why not trust Intamin, again?" as Intamin too, frankly, has shown an abysmal record of reliability. Not to rehash our slow burn convo on the topic, but the irony remains that CP's two most recent coaster removals are large, multi-million Intamins (TTD and Wicked Twister).
Maybe the core tenet we face throughout this is the fleeting pursuit of perfection. At what cost do we try to build the tallest, fastest, most exciting roller coasters? While we'd like to think there isn't a trade off of excitement and reliability/longevity - TTD and Kingda Ka (still down at present able a cable snap) show limits to the theory, or atleast the immense cost of maintenance and upkeep.
The magnetic LSM launch will not be as thrilling as the hydraulic launch, full stop (unfortunately magnets can't beat the acceleration and "kick" of hydraulic or pneumatic launches); but it will mean TTD lives to see another day with (hopefully) more operational hours packed in.
Even godlike roller coasters prove to be mortal at the end of the day.
Cedar Fair has shown a flair for the "let's try it" occasionally. Let's not forget the multiple 300 ft. Mondial Windseekers that were purchased (to... ahem... relative success).
True, but I still think Vekoma cirka 2016-ish was a much more mature coaster manufacturer than Zamperla is today. They had experience with quite big coasters (altough not entirely Hyper-size, but Black Hole Express and Odyssey come quite close), had an amazingly wide portfolio, and had demonstrated the concept of their new sit-down design with Formula at Energylandia already. Zamperla today has yet to build a coaster faster than 90 km/h or taller than 36 meters, and now they are trying their hand at one that's more than twice as fast and nearly four times as tall.
Gah, I missed the small one in Guatemala.
Crazycoaster
Giga Poster
Yeah I’d say it’s a bold move to trust Zamperla to do this. I haven’t seen any truly good reviews of their “big” modern coasters.
I won’t lie, I’m a bit disappointed that it’s not an Intamin redo, purely because it means that the LSM tech won’t be from Indrivetec, which seem to be able to produce much more powerful launches compared to other LSMs. Which a much less powerful launch, I think we can probably write off the spike being taller than the tophat.
I won’t lie, I’m a bit disappointed that it’s not an Intamin redo, purely because it means that the LSM tech won’t be from Indrivetec, which seem to be able to produce much more powerful launches compared to other LSMs. Which a much less powerful launch, I think we can probably write off the spike being taller than the tophat.
Matt N
CF Legend
Do we necessarily know that Zamperla won’t use InDriveTec themselves? To my knowledge, they’ve never built an LSM launch coaster before, so how would we know which supplier they will use? With the sheer speed and scale of the ride, it may well be something that only InDriveTec are willing to provide, as most of the world’s largest/fastest LSM launch coasters were built by Intamin, and they have built a launch of comparable speed in the form of Red Force while IntraSys haven’t, to my knowledge.
Also, I’m sure IntraSys could, in theory, provide a powerful launch like the Intamin LSM Launch Coasters have. It all comes down to the demands of their client; I ascertain that some of IntraSys’ clients (such as Gerstlauer) typically go for considerably punchier launches than others (such as Mack).
Matt N
CF Legend
People have noticed calling cards in the track and supports. The stator placement on the refurbished track apparently perfectly aligns with Zamperla’s new Lightning trains and is not like any current Intamin coasters, and some of the supports seen also match Zamperla’s.
I'd go even further. I haven't seen a review of any of their big-ish coasters (anything above the little kiddie tier) that hasn't singled out the coaster as mediocre at best and awful at worst. It's rare nowadays to see coasters that aren't smooth upon opening, but Zamperla's Thunderbolt coasters have apparently got the same rattling and shuffling as Vekoma and Gerstlauer rides from the 1990's. There hasn't yet been a good Zamperla coaster that I'm aware of, only some that have reached "not that awful" levels of appraise (when they're brand new). I don't think there are any non-defunct manufacturers in the Western world with the same awful reputation that Zamperla has.
Indy
Hyper Poster
I was admittedly skeptical in the beginning about Zamperla doing this, but I'm not sure the risk is that great. Granted, we still don't know the full extent of what is happening with the ride, but let's assume that the only layout changes are a spike and possibly hills in the brakes or launch. What scope/risks are we really looking at?
- Controls
- Controls engineering is often provided by an outside vendor. Using a vendor that Cedar Fair likes and is familiar with can greatly minimize risk/concern.
- Launch/Brakes
- Like controls, magnetics are usually provided by an outside vendor, so utilizing a provider with a solid reputation will minimize a lot of concern.
- Wheels
- Going 100+ mph is obviously no small task for wheels, but coaster companies don't make their own wheels. There are a few select companies that spec out and fabricate the wheels. In some cases, parks will even request that a certain company is used. Zamperla just has to provide the loads that will be applied to the wheels and somebody else does the rest of the work.
- Track work
- It is entirely possible that the only track fabrication required is for straight track or track that is curved in a single direction, which is not hard to do. Zamperla might be able to minimize risk here depending on who they use to fabricate the track. I'm not terribly familiar with their fabrication capabilities, but if they are using an outside fabricator, then it's very likely that the fabricator has been used by other manufacturers. Knowing who is doing the fabrication can give Cedar Fair a good bit of confidence in what the quality will be.
- Zamperla's newer installations have shown a lot of improvement. While obviously of a smaller scale, their super twister coaster at Warner Bros. Abu Dhabi is very smooth.
- Zamperla themselves have been pretty open in the past few years about how they knew they needed to improve. I have to imagine that fairly public transparency provides a certain level of confidence to a buyer that they want to provide a high quality product.
- Train design
- This is arguably the biggest risk. Going 120mph is much different than going 30mph. It's no secret that the Thunderbolt cars don't track well in particularly twisted maneuvers. However, Zamperla has added personnel who have worked with other companies and know a thing or two about making coasters. They have already shown off their new Lightning train in the flesh and it's an obvious departure from their previous rolling stock. Of course, there is risk involved, but they can help alleviate some of that risk by showing Cedar Fair their fabrication methods, design methods, and componentry. And at the end of the day, the train only has to go up and over a few hills and negotiate some inline twists. The layout isn't terribly dynamic.
emoo
Hyper Poster
Excuse me - what road?? https://goo.gl/maps/qNjpPYG75QHaF1Y79. I did not know that, possibly late to the realisation party but no wonder I didn't recognise the track and know the manufacture for many months.
TPoseOnTantrum
Giga Poster
New foundation has been poured underneath the station canopy;
Indy
Hyper Poster
Let me simply say that you've missed a lot.
bob_3_
Giga Poster
The industry isn't as school-yard as all that. I'm pretty sure this will be a cost, availability and best proposal situation.
You also see people be like "INSERT PARK would never work with INSERT MANUFACTURER" all the time and the next year they go build one lol, remember when "Cedar Point will never work with B&M after they cloned Raptor" and then they built Gatekeeper and Valravn. If a company has the right price and the right product, they will get the job.
If there is any "beef", you'll most likely see it as a public lawsuit.
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Antinos
Slut for Spinners
I'm sure it was pointed out already but the last Intamin installation at Cedar Point almost killed eight people, and that was the final straw following a long series of reliability issues on ALL their Intamins. Maybe most everyone now wasn't an enthusiast back then to know about Cedar Point's woes with Intamin, but for us vets it's not surprising in the least that Cedar Point would be hesitant to work with Intamin again regardless of the quality of product they're making now.
